my boyfriend is TOO fair!

[aloevera]

I've been dating my boyfriend for over 2 and a half years and I believe we are perfect in every way except for 1.

 

My boyfriend isn't 'sexist', but we often have arguments how girls should not be treated 'special' For ex He got a place in an excellent university doing engineering. He used to make remarks such as 'men are born engineers'. I too got a place in that university doing a different form of engineering. I was eligable for a program which offered special help females in the course. He was really peed off at this, saying it wasn't fair etc. This really disheartned me and eventually I moved to another university close by and did a different course (which I ended up enjoying more).

 

As well as this, I try to tell him that; guys need to care for girls, that we love spontaneous romance/gifts, and especially that we need to be re-assured. He again is too logical for his own good! He does not know HOW to think 'out side the box' but always insists that 'it isn't logical for girls to be reassured' and he follows this by saying something like 'if a guy needed reassuring they would be a loser'. He also says things like, 'if a bigger guy hit a girl, there would be public uproar, but if a bigger girl hit a guy, the guy still can't hit her back'. He is not physically abusive or emotionally abusive but here is my question:

 

How do I teach him to think outside the sqaure? I've tried calmly talking about it, but he is soo damn stubborn and logical!

 

How do I tell him that girls need a little bit more in the relationship? How do I tell him to be romantic with-out looking demanding?

 

Keep in mind I have already told him how it makes me feel...maybe I'm just not wording it right

[savignon]

Take it out of the "men vs. women" arena and speak in terms of "Me and you".

I feel special when...

I fee valued when...

I would love it if you (took me to dinner more often/planned special things for us)

It's not about men and women...it's about how you feel in the relationship and how you'd like to be treated so that you're more likely to stick around longer!

[I_Speak_Jive]

My boyfriend isn't 'sexist', but we often have arguments how girls should not be treated 'special'

 

They shouldn't, because you aren't.

 

I try to tell him that; guys need to care for girls, that we love spontaneous romance/gifts, and especially that we need to be re-assured.

 

How do I tell him that girls need a little bit more in the relationship?

 

GIRLS don't need a little bit more. GIRLS don't need to be treated special. GIRLS don't have a sense of entitlement that makes them believe they deserve more of x, y and z than everybody else by virtue of lacking a penis.

 

YOU do.

[DN]

I don't think it is your boyfriend that needs to think 'outside the square' - for instance: how is it possible to be 'too fair'? He is either fair or he isn't.

 

I am reminded of a quote from 'Animal Farm' - "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others". Are you sure you are not trying to be 'more equal" in this relationship?

[aloevera]

Like it or not, ALL girls like being thought of a 'special' in a relationship. This doesn't mean, better or SUPERIOR, it just means re-assurance. And good LUCK if you find a girl who doesn't, and I am being honest!

 

When I said 'more' i didn't mean I get 18 slices of pizza and he gets one, I meant things like: offering the last piece of cake or something. Or a gesture like organising a nice night out, or giving me a flower on my birthday or valentines day.

 

And having more of things such as x, y, z does NOT mean more material objects it means things like: him being there for me, it wouldn't be right if I was comforting my boyfriend about having a fight with his friends while he cries in my lap now would it

[hexaemeron]

My dear, you don't deserve to be treated any differently than anyone else because of what gonads happen to be flapping between your legs. That's what the progress for equality is all about.

 

It's not a man's job to spoil you, or to "do more" for you. You aren't a wilting Victorian flower. You're a human being who is just as capable of doing the work of a man, being paid as much as a man, and handling the responsibilities of life just like a man.

 

This sort of attitude is exactly why progress for women in the workforce stalls. Your type wants all the benefits of equal rights, but then you want to keep all the benefits of being "protected" and "spoiled".

 

Sorry, lady, that ship has sailed.

[DN]

What do you do to make him feel special? Do you offer him the last piece of cake or organise a nice night out? Perhaps you should lead by example.

[aloevera]

yes, I am familiar with George Orwell, I loved animal farm, and not I'm not being one of the pigs!

 

In relationships, it is common courtesy for a man to act like a gentleman, and I apologise for my thread, because I read over it and it seems like I want alot "more" of objects and such.

 

My boyfriend IS too fair. He likes everything absoloutely equal to the smallest detail. For example one night we were out, and there was a piece of cake leftover. He cut it in half, allowing himself more, as he is much taller than me and can therefore consume more. Another example, we were having a game of boxing, to which he wore softer gloves and gave me a one punch head start, due to the strength difference.

 

All women like a gentleman, the only difference is, I admit it. All girls want to be treated special, all girls want the last piece offered to them, etc. GOODLUCK finding a girl who doesn't want that! I feel like I have portrayed the female secret society by openly admitting, that yes, females do like that tiny bit more, even if they don't know it!

[I_Speak_Jive]

Like it or not, ALL girls like being thought of a 'special' in a relationship. This doesn't mean, better or SUPERIOR, it just means re-assurance. And good LUCK if you find a girl who doesn't, and I am being honest!

 

When I said 'more' i didn't mean I get 18 slices of pizza and he gets one, I meant things like: offering the last piece of cake or something. Or a gesture like organising a nice night out, or giving me a flower on my birthday or valentines day.

 

And having more of things such as x, y, z does NOT mean more material objects it means things like: him being there for me, it wouldn't be right if I was comforting my boyfriend about having a fight with his friends while he cries in my lap now would it

 

 

Rationalising whatever unfair and unbalanced demands you decide to bring into your relationships with the excuse that "I am a girl" is just plain wrong. Common as cat pee, unfortunately, but just wrong in several levels.

 

If you need reassurance, then YOU need reassurance. Because thats just the type of girlfriend you are. Not because you are a girl, period.

 

You want to be offered the last piece of cake? Cool. Because that's just the type of girlfriend you are. Not because you are a girl, period.

 

Since I happen to be gay, I never have to put up with this bizarre piece of biologically deterministic pseudo-logic in my relationships. But let's try a thought experiment.

 

Boyfriend comes home and announces:

 

"I deserve to be treated 'special' by you, ersatz81. Because I am ginger. ALL gingers deserve to be treated special. Because I am ginger, and well, all gingers just demand the same thing of their partners.

 

Also, since I am a slight ginger dude and you are a slightly brawnier Southern European guy, you just need to reassure me and make me feel special because you know, I am ginger and thinner and this is what I want, and you're just going to have to give me the last piece of cake or else I will pout and sulk for this is what gingers are accustomed to. Ginger."

 

I would pack my special boyfriend's suitcase with such tender special care and very delicately place it by the curve.

 

But you are a girl, so that's ok. Right?

[hexaemeron]

I don't see why you feel entitled to speak for everyone. Just speak for yourself. If that's your stance, fine, but to my mind, your boyfriend is treating you with respect. If being equal isn't enough for you, then go find some darling man who will pamper you and basically treat you as incapable of fending for yourself. Because really, you don't get one trait like that without the other one.

[aloevera]

Ok ok, lets get one thing sorted before the male population attack me! Number 1: I'm not some spoilt little girl who want's extra! Also, I treat my boyfriend very kindly!!! I make him nice dinners, I organise nice day outs, I write him letters and I'm very affectionate. All im asking is for him to act like a gentleman! I live in an area where men still open doors for ladies, when I go to his house his dad brings his mum flowers, and I'm not asking for those things!

[Scott12]

And having more of things such as x, y, z does NOT mean more material objects it means things like: him being there for me, it wouldn't be right if I was comforting my boyfriend about having a fight with his friends while he cries in my lap now would it

 

Aloevera,

 

Part of being in a mature, long-term relationship is knowing that you have to throw everything out the window that you learned about what boys are like and what girls are like. You need to concentrate on what HE is like and what YOU are like.

 

And honestly, if you wouldn't comfort your boyfriend if he was crying on your lap, then you're going to have trouble establishing an enduring relationship. Men already have to keep more of a facade up in the every day world than do women (probably a big part of the reason men's suicide rates are much higher), and if your SO feels like he has to keep a facade up around you when he's hurting, then you won't find many SO's who will want to stick around.

 

Scott

[aloevera]

And first of all I'm not sterotyping the entire female population!!!

Randomly give your girlfriend or boyfriend a flower or something, and SEE how happy they will be! Sucessful relationships CANNOT be that equal.

 

For centuries and centuries, men WERE gentlemen, and all I am asking is where has this social edicate gone? I know times are changing, and women don't slave over hot ovens, but a nice gesture once in a while is healthy and very rewarding!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I was eligable for a program which offered special help females in the course. He was really peed off at this, saying it wasn't fair etc. This really disheartned me and eventually I moved to another university close by and did a different course (which I ended up enjoying more).

 

I am trying to get my head around this, why would you even decide to switch programs and universities simply because he thought it wasn't fair that females get special help (not sure what this special help is?). A simple comment of "it's no fair" from your boyfriend shouldn't be the determining factor in switching programs.

 

As for your thoughts regarding gender expectations...both genders should be attentive to each other, do romantic things for each other, share the last piece of cake etc. Pampering and care works both ways, not just from the male to the female.

[hexaemeron]

So... if you want him to act like a "traditional" gentleman... is he entitled to ask you to act like a "traditional" woman?

 

No job for you, because you must stay home, clean your house, and make babies.

 

You don't get the option to divorce, because "traditionally" women were seen as pariahs in society if they chose this.

 

You don't get a say in when you have sex, how you have sex, whether it's good for you, because "traditionally" it's just a woman's lot in life to lay there and take it. Right?

 

Would you agree to this since you're asking him to turn back the clock?

[aloevera]

Scott when you said

 

"And honestly, if you wouldn't comfort your boyfriend if he was crying on your lap, then you're going to have trouble establishing an enduring relationship."

 

I meant that as a figure of speech, I would definitely comfort my boyfriend if he was crying, but with periods and such, females are much more emotional than guys (most of the time)

[aloevera]

hexameron,

 

I'm not asking for the clock to turn back! Although time has passed, women are still seen as the ones who make food and wash clothes (although this does not happen AS much). If I can adhere to 'traditional' female values, such as cooking him dinner, cleaning up his room, I think that he can show 2% of what a traditional gentleman was!

 

And as for the sex part, I can't have sex before marriage because my religion says if I do I will burn in the fiery pitts of hell.

[hexaemeron]

hexameron,

 

I'm not asking for the clock to turn back! Although time has passed, women are still seen as the ones who make food and wash clothes (although this does not happen AS much). If I can adhere to 'traditional' female values, such as cooking him dinner, cleaning up his room, I think that he can show 2% of what a traditional gentleman was!

 

And as for the sex part, I can't have sex before marriage because my religion says if I do I will burn in the fiery pitts of hell.

 

Oh, this all makes sense now. Best of luck with that.

[Gilroy]

aloevera, I understand what you are telling here.

 

I believe that men and women are equal but that does not mean that they feel the same way about different situations in life. Women by nature are very sensitive and love to be comforted. Even a woman that works as a CEO will go home and want to be hugged and comforted by her husband.

 

I think your boyfriend has totally sucked in this Equality notion and thinks that men and women are not just equal but also the same. Men and women are different. Women like to feel special.

 

I think as some one else suggested you should talk to your boyfriend in terms of 'you' and 'him' versus 'men' and 'women'.

[Scott12]

I meant that as a figure of speech, I would definitely comfort my boyfriend if he was crying, but with periods and such, females are much more emotional than guys (most of the time)

 

Aloevera,

 

Let me give you a piece of advice because you're young and I think you're just having some trouble looking at this from the right perspective. If it makes you feel special when your SO opens the door for you, or pulls out your chair, or whatever, then tell him "Hey SO, it makes me feel special when you do xyz for me. Would you mind doing it more often?"

 

Contrast that with you saying "You should do xyz for me because women feel special when their SO does xyz for them and I'm a woman so you should do it too." Can you see the difference? Just drop the gender part of the argument. I can certainly say that if you had approached me in the first way, I'd have no problem doing more of what you like, but if you approached me in the second way, I'd start arguing with you too.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Scott

[penelope13]

Like it or not, ALL girls like being thought of a 'special' in a relationship. This doesn't mean, better or SUPERIOR, it just means re-assurance. And good LUCK if you find a girl who doesn't, and I am being honest!

 

No luck needed: if my boyfriend started treating me differently, because i am a 'girl', he'd get an earful!!! Don't I appreciate flowers - yes, because they are nice. Not because I am a woman. Come to think of it, I have given my boyfriend more flowers than the other way around, just because they look nice in his house/ office and I like him.

 

If you have these traditional views - your right. But please don't speak for the rest of all women.

 

Before you claim that I am just pretending and secretly still hoping/ expecting to be treated like a fragile princess - just check out some of my posts on this subject.

 

Of course I appreciate a man with manners, but so I do women who have manners. I like nice gestures, but so does he - nothing to do with either of our genders.

 

I find it really sad if someone doesn't want to invest a bit in personal growth/ gaining self confidence etc, because they don't feel the need with the argument of 'why should I do that for myself, if someone else can provide that for me'.

 

Just because I believe in equality also doesn't diminish anything about me feeling 'feminine'. I don't need valentines day gifts or constant reassurance for that.

 

If you like being traditional - good for you, but maybe you should find a different guy who agrees with your point of view, rather than to force this one to abandon his common sense and logic.

[hockeyboy]

We really can't put all men in one group and all women in another.

 

Every individual is different. Your boyfriend is who he is and it sounds like he's made his view pretty clear. If you don't like being w/ someone with those kind of views, why not leave and find someone that makes you happier?

 

Doesn't make him or you bad people, just maybe not right for each other.

[rosephase]

 

For centuries and centuries, men WERE gentlemen, and all I am asking is where has this social edicate gone? I know times are changing, and women don't slave over hot ovens, but a nice gesture once in a while is healthy and very rewarding!

 

No. A very small percentage of upper class men dressed in a fashion and acted a way in public as society dictated. They where still just people and back in the "good old days" they cheated and drank and stole just as much as we do now. Also if they cheated on you you had no way to get out of a marriage. And if you somehow got out (read: death) you had no skills what-so-ever to live off of.

 

Don't look at the past thru rose colored glasses. It won't help.

 

I don't think women want to be treated special in relationships. I think EVERYONE does. You want the person you are with to make you feel good and like they love you. For some women it's flowers. For some women it's skydiving lessons. For some men it's a nice home cooked meal, for some it's a good blow job and for still others it's flowers.

 

What your asking for isn't unreasonable. What makes everyone annoyed at you is because you are generalizing so much. If y9ou step away from it being a gender I think you'll find it is easier to talk about. Both here on this forum and with your boyfriend.

[aloevera]

well fair enough penelope13, thankyou for your input! By posting this thread, I did want to see how other women felt about that 'little bit extra'. See with all my female friends and family I gathered that indeed women do like those little romantic gestures and such, at least now from what you have said, I can narrow my point, to 'certain types of people' as opposed to females in general, so I appologise for sterotyping everyone!

 

I guess it is just the way I was brought up or something, it's just something I see everyday! And don't get me wrong, I adore my boyfriend, he is caring and trustworthy and definitely right for eachother, and I wouldn't break up with him over the issue or anything, but yeh I guess I have to stray away from the boy vs girl idea and instead say he and I!

 

So thanks heaps for your input guys, I'll adress my boyfriend in a way which adheres to the way I am as opposed to what girls like!

 

P.S I under no circumstance think females are BETTER than guys, all I am saying is a little bit of chivelry (or however you spell it) isn't a bad thing for ME not the entire female population!

[Taikero]

Women don't deserve one lick of extra attention or respect than what I'd give a man. I open doors for men and women equally because it's polite, for instance.

 

My partner deserves extra consideration and attention and care from me in accordance to the amount of effort she also puts into the relationship, which includes being attentive and caring and considerate. It works both ways, and just as YOU might want to be treated as if you're special, I want to be treated as if I'm special by my partner, and I want to return the same feeling to them.

 

 

If you both don't feel as if you're special to the other, then what are you still doing in the relationship? I have friends for relationships where we do things together but we don't have a special place in our heart for the other. That place is for someone who gives back as I give to them.