People should respect other people's morals and values

[bruinsy81]

Why exactly does it make me a negative person because I am opposed to dating these types of guys? Because I don't date women does that make me a homophobe? Of course not. No, I want a specific thing and that's what I want. Maybe the one I like will come back or maybe I'll find another never married/no kid guy (yes they are out there). If I don't then if I am still single, then that's how it is. I am tired of people judging me because of this. Muslims don't eat pork, would you judge them for this? Same thing.

As others have suggested it might be quite difficult to find a man with such stringent qualifications.It's just not the norm.You are going to eliminate let's say some guy who you find extremely attractive,love his personality and are compatible in every way except the fact he was divorced.Are you willing to become involved with a man who you find physically unattractive that has never married?

[newwave]

As others have suggested it might be quite difficult to find a man with such stringent qualifications.It's just not the norm.You are going to eliminate let's say some guy who you find extremely attractive,love his personality and are compatible in every way except the fact he was divorced.Are you willing to become involved with a man who you find physically unattractive that has never married?

 

Well, my type is not what people would consider attractive actually. I tend to love the nerdy types. I don't feel my standards are that strict, just something I feel strong about. Would I date a divorced guy? Probably not if I can help it. If he had a short marriage, maybe but depends on the circumstances. Long marriage? No and certainly not one with kids. I have dated divorced guys and it was a disaster. The less attractive guy would likely be a better boyfriend in general. I know there are still never married guys out there so I am going to look for those.

[I_Speak_Jive]

I am morally opposed to having kids out of wedlock. It's wrong and shows me the person has a lack of morals.

 

By saying this does this mean I'd go up to a guy never married with a kid and say he has no morals? Of course not

 

 

contradiction /ˌkɒntrəˈdɪkʃən/ –noun

1. the act of contradicting; gainsaying or opposition.

2. assertion of the contrary or opposite; denial.

3. a statement or proposition that contradicts or denies another or itself and is logically incongruous.

4. direct opposition between things compared; inconsistency.

5. a contradictory act, fact, etc.

 

You open thread after thread with the motif "I am sick and tired of people judging me for ______". The blank space is normally occupied by a statement in which you put down a substantial sector of the population for doing something perfectly natural like, I don't know, reproducing or ending a bad marriage.

 

And every time I have to wonder: who, pray tell, are these hordes of virulently judgmental people all around you? I brandish my fair share of controversial opinions and standpoints, but I can go for months without having anyone make a judgmental statement about me to my face.

 

The truth, I suspect, is that nobody really cares one way or another about which segments of the male population you elect to look down upon this week, or the intellectual pirouettes that you engage in in order to back it up. I can almost certainly guarantee, newwave, that it is in fact ENTIRELY SAFE for you to go about your daily business without fear of being judged by anyone.

 

That should really come as a relief, I hope.

 

Of course you may be referring to the good folk at ENA who had the audacity of giving you advice and comments on threads you posted. In that case let me just clear something up: it's not that we are judging you. Heck, we don't even know you. You matter to people here just as much as I do, which is nothing. For all we care, you could refuse to date every single left-handed man with blue eyes who was born after Labor Day because of your "morals and ethics" and we won't judge. We won't understand, but we won't really care.

 

The problem, I think, is that when you insist on following every "I refuse to date men who [insert common human trait] with another thread about "OMG I am SO lonely and single and God obviously hates me because I am unmarried at forty", then... well, really, what kind of advice can you possibly expect to get?

 

Yes, newwave, lower your expectations. In fact, grab that expectations dial and dial it down a few THOUSAND notches. Or stay single and superior from all of us mortals and our failed marriages, unplanned but very much loved children, and trial-and-error ways of learning about life.

[Hermes]

People should respect other pople's morals and values.

This is the title of your new thread. NOT "What kind of man am I seeking". You have other threads about that. So let's try not to mix them up. No one can judge you (and it is your own business) the kind of man you wish to choose. But THIS thread is about something else.

 

So far so good, NewWave. I would not argue with respecting other's morals and values, and it works both ways.

 

Problem is that you are judging the "imperfect" people of this world, by judging them as immoral, somehow "sub-standard", not up to the mark. Do re-read Lavender's excellent post.

 

A poster above says:

 

You are tired of people judging you, and your entire thread is based on the premise of you judging half the people in our society based on something that has happened to them, and judging them harshly.

 

 

People make MISTAKES, NewWave. Have you NEVER made a mistake in your whole life?

I agree that it is best if a child the two parents, but, a woman who has a child out of wedlock (due to whateve circumstances) is not an immoral woman with no standards. That is unfair. Likewise divorce. I honestly do not think the vast majority of people undertake divorce lightly. It's a painful and hard situation, and anyone I know who did get a divorce, had thought long and hard about it. I cannot imagine there is anyone who one bright day says going straight out to the divorce lawyer today because ole Jim/John/Harry never puts the cap back on the shampoo bottle."

 

People make mistakes. That is life. It is an imperfect world, and everyone, including YOU, is imperfect.

 

H

[Hermes]

Very good, Sunshine.

 

I don't have many people speaking to me about my standards. That may be bc I never complain about being alone or single or that I can't find a good man- not saying that you do. I'd love to meet someone but I love my own company and I'm a happy person. That's all that matters and that's all that should matter with you. Who cares what people think about your standards? You shouldn't. But if your posts come off as critical of others or preachy, then that's why people have a problem with your 'standards/morals'.

 

But then, you have a grasp on reality, things how they are.

 

H.

[prettymommy]

" Iam morally opposed to having kids out of wedlock. It's wrong and shows me the person has a lack of morals. "

 

I guess that means I lack morals from your perspective? Never mind that I am human and thus faliable. When I got pregnant after a one time slip up when in a LTR, should I have had an abortion then instead of bearing the child? I guess you would I would lack morals there too if I had done that. Given the circumstances, I can't win, based on your "values" , can I? Suppose I should go around like Hester Pryne wearing a scarlet letter on my head for the rest of my life?

 

Never mind that I fully support my son completely on my own, hold a good job, and am constantly complimented on my son's manners and behaviors and am raising him to be a bright, vivacious, respectful, contributing member to society. Nope, none of that matters, b/c based on the sole fact that I had him out of wedlock, what I have done subsequently with my life does not matter. Never mind what the experience has taught me and how it changed me and caused me to grow as a person, and how it has caused me to be completely different from the girl I was when before I got pregent 9 years ago. From you perspective, I just simply lack morals for the mere fact I had my beautiful boy outside the insitution of marriage. Does that mean my son lacks morals too, since I, as his primary role model, am apparently immoral?

 

I'm glad life is so black and white for you newwave, but think you will be up for a rude awakening when you realize life often doesn't operate that way. I think you would find more people accepting of your viewpoint if you said you don't agree with people who divorce, or have children out of wedlock, and that it doesn't mesh with your values. People can accept that, even if they don't agree with it. However, to take it a step further and call those people immoral, is blantently judgemental, offensive, and contributes to the reason why people do not respect your viewpoint.

[msDazed_N_Confused]

Respect is a mutual thing, you can't force people to respect you. Especially since you don't seem to respect them in the least bit.

[Batya33]

Yes, religious views. I have friends who had kids out of wedlock or even divorced, but not what I want for my partner.

 

Does your religion find it morally appropriate to judge complete strangers as "lacking morals" (in totality, it seems) because they divorced or had a child out of wedlock? I do know that some religions encourage its members to try to help those who seem to have swayed from a moral path but I have a feeling that simply judging them from your righteous stance and pronouncing them "immoral" isn't considered appropriate (or ethical).

 

I don't see anything wrong with your preferences either - if they were just stated as preferences or even if "we wouldn't have the same values" - but your stridency, well, I wonder if a man who meets your moral standards would feel comfortable with your judgmental attitude.

[rosephase]

It's wrong and shows me the person has a lack of morals. These are my views and people should respect that we all have different values (or lack thereof).

 

 

The only issue I have with people expressing themselves in the way you are is this idea that people can have a "lack" of morals or values. Each individual (with the help of there family culture and experiences) builds and maintains there own system of morals and values.

 

I have a very different life then you and a lot of people in the world. I have multiple open honest sexual romantic relationships. That isn't because I lack values or morals it's because I have different values and morals.

 

I don't think it is fair or wise to accuses or state that someone doesn't have morals when what you mean is that someone doesn't have YOUR morals. "morals" are personal. Values are personal.

 

I won't put my personal ideas of morals on you if you won't put yours on me.

[newwave]

Yes, newwave, lower your expectations. In fact, grab that expectations dial and dial it down a few THOUSAND notches. Or stay single and superior from all of us mortals and our failed marriages, unplanned but very much loved children, and trial-and-error ways of learning about life.

 

Why should I have to do that? If the only single people were lesbians should I date them too? Just because my standards include not dating guys with kids, doesn't mean my standards are too high, just that other people standards are too high. I do not want to be a stepmom. That doesn't mean I'll stay single because there are single men out there.

[newwave]

As long as you don't sponge off that taxpayers I don't care what you do. However if you were a man, no I wouldn't date you, but you aren't.

[newwave]

Does your religion find it morally appropriate to judge complete strangers as "lacking morals" (in totality, it seems) because they divorced or had a child out of wedlock? I do know that some religions encourage its members to try to help those who seem to have swayed from a moral path but I have a feeling that simply judging them from your righteous stance and pronouncing them "immoral" isn't considered appropriate (or ethical).

 

I don't see anything wrong with your preferences either - if they were just stated as preferences or even if "we wouldn't have the same values" - but your stridency, well, I wonder if a man who meets your moral standards would feel comfortable with your judgmental attitude.

 

If I met a person who had a kid out of wedlock I wouldn't care, but once they become a potential mate, yes I do care.

[orchidrose]

Why should I have to do that? If the only single people were lesbians should I date them too? Just because my standards include not dating guys with kids, doesn't mean my standards are too high, just that other people standards are too high. I do not want to be a stepmom. That doesn't mean I'll stay single because there are single men out there.

 

You're completely missing the point. I don't want to date guys with kids, but not because I find them to be morally reprehensible. It's a simple preference. That's not an issue. What's an issue is viewing yourself as being somehow superior because you don't have a kid.

[newwave]

You're completely missing the point. I don't want to date guys with kids, but not because I find them to be morally reprehensible. It's a simple preference. That's not an issue. What's an issue is viewing yourself as being somehow superior because you don't have a kid.

 

No, I don't think I am morally superior because I don't have a kid. I just feel having kids out of wedlock is wrong. There is a thing called birth control but too many people just have to have a baby though they aren't ready for one.

[orchidrose]

And every time I have to wonder: who, pray tell, are these hordes of virulently judgmental people all around you? I brandish my fair share of controversial opinions and standpoints, but I can go for months without having anyone make a judgmental statement about me to my face.

 

The truth, I suspect, is that nobody really cares one way or another about which segments of the male population you elect to look down upon this week, or the intellectual pirouettes that you engage in in order to back it up. I can almost certainly guarantee, newwave, that it is in fact ENTIRELY SAFE for you to go about your daily business without fear of being judged by anyone.

 

This is something I've wondered, as well. Who are these people who corner you and yell at you for your beliefs, seriously?

[orchidrose]

No, I don't think I am morally superior because I don't have a kid. I just feel having kids out of wedlock is wrong. There is a thing called birth control but too many people just have to have a baby though they aren't ready for one.

 

Okay, fine. So don't date them. Why continue to post on the internet about these opinions and blab them to everyone so they, as you say, tell you that you're selfish and judgmental? Why not just live your life?

[newwave]

I got kicked out of a singles group because I stated (they asked for people you wouldn't date) I would never date single fathers. They said I was being judgemental and bypassing "great guys". I responded that if these guys were so great why didn't they marry the mother? Those people were judgemental, not me.

[tf987]

No, I don't think I am morally superior because I don't have a kid. I just feel having kids out of wedlock is wrong. There is a thing called birth control but too many people just have to have a baby though they aren't ready for one.

 

What I think is far worse, is people raising their kids to have such ignorant views... religion seems to be the largest culprit of this in he US (I assume you are a US resident). I think it is a much worse moral crime... but this is just my opinion so its cool ;-) I don't mind if your morals are ignorant... I just would never date you.

 

In case that wasn't obvious, I'm using sarcasm for effect.

 

Seriously though, what is your moral issue with somebody having a child out of wedlock or getting divorced? What religion do you practice? Can you quote any actual scripture that says its wrong?

[Doc Blaze]

things arent as black and white as you make them out to be...maybe through your eyes morals and values they are, but reality they arent

[tf987]

I responded that if these guys were so great why didn't they marry the mother?

 

How do you know they didn't try? I know of at least 2 cases where the guy was willing to marry the women and she chose to go solo as a parent....

[rosephase]

I got kicked out of a singles group because I stated (they asked for people you wouldn't date) I would never date single fathers. They said I was being judgemental and bypassing "great guys". I responded that if these guys were so great why didn't they marry the mother? Those people were judgemental, not me.

 

That is where your wrong. BOTH of you are being judgmental. And horribly so. That doesn't mean you have to stop and it doesn't mean they have to stop.

 

I have no issue with being judgmental or picky when it comes to dating. The reason why your are upsetting people is because you are saying that single parents lack morals. When what you mean to say (I think) is that single parents don't have the SAME morals as you and your not willing to date someone who has very different morals and values from yourself which is true for most people. It's not a big deal.

[Doc Blaze]

thing is you dont give people a chance to tell you the situatiion or even speak before judgement is put upon them

[orchidrose]

I got kicked out of a singles group because I stated (they asked for people you wouldn't date) I would never date single fathers. They said I was being judgemental and bypassing "great guys". I responded that if these guys were so great why didn't they marry the mother? Those people were judgemental, not me.

 

Did you respond to them with the line about not marrying their mother? If so, I can see why you were kicked out. I can't imagine they kicked you out for politely saying you didn't want to date a single father.

[newwave]

They had you write down your dating preferences. I wrote "never married, no kids". The lady said would I date a man with kids and I said no. She then asked if never married guys with kids was ok, and I said that was worse because they didn't value the women enough to marry them so they'd probably do the same. She said because I wasn't openminded she didn't see a place for me.

[orchidrose]

They had you write down your dating preferences. I wrote "never married, no kids". The lady said would I date a man with kids and I said no. She then asked if never married guys with kids was ok, and I said that was worse because they didn't value the women enough to marry them so they'd probably do the same. She said because I wasn't openminded she didn't see a place for me.

 

There's a bit of an irony there, because she wasn't being completely open-minded either, but again, I think you're missing the point. This woman wasn't judging you because you didn't want to date a never married guy with kids. She seems to have been judging you because of your judgmental statement that they didn't value the women enough to marry them.