I don't get women and I'm fed up...again.

[Curious_Girl]

Well, forget this entire situation.

 

That's too bad. At least it was good practice.

 

Rich did give you good advice. That's what I meant about not being a puppy dog. You didn't do anything wrong leaving - you have a life too! That's a good thing. If a woman wants to be the only thing in your world, well, I don't know about you, but that's not someone I'd want to be with.

You weren't rude about it.

 

So yeah, show interest, but I don't think anyone should think go in with the attitude that someone is too good for them. Maybe that's why thinking of a woman as a "prize" doesn't work out. It works if you think (know) she'd be lucky to have you too. I just don't like the idea of someone needing to have the "upper hand" in a relationship. To me, that's not a relationship; it's a competition.

 

You will have more chances, hopefully with someone more compatible.

[Seymore]

A little update...

 

So the other night a friend and I went to the coffee shop, and she happened to be there. I'd heard that she asked if I was coming in to visit, and I remembered a girl I dated a few years back where I wrote her off because she was 5 years younger than me (a big mistake in retrospect), so I decided why not. I marched up to her, made some small talk, and suggested we go out. She said no, she has no time, etc. and continued the conversation like it was nothing. I started to wonder if she heard me right or thought I said "YOU should go out".

 

We kept talking, and a few minutes later, after my friend sat down in a space away from us, she asked why me and my friend were there and why we didn't go out drinking. I told her my friend is a recovering alcoholic. So then she asked me if we were gay. I told her "If I were gay, would I have just asked you out?" She said "I'm too young for you, remember?" And so I said forget it - that's twice I brought it up, twice I got shot down, and I don't remember ever having said to her that she was too old for me.

 

I'm so sick of getting d!cked around by girls, and I was upset, but I continued the conversation like nothing happened and it didn't affect me, all friendly-like, and then after a while, my friend and I left. Even my friend could have sworn she was at least 25. Today my parents went in there and J told them she felt terrible about giving me crap about not going out drinking after I said my friend was a recovering alcoholic. Why does she even care? She's not into me. I crashed and burned twice and still kept my head high. My folks and friend even swore she was flirting with me, and yet she's not interested...what the heck...any insight?

[freurmynd]

dude she likes you... ask her out....

she payed enough attention to you being there that she was miffed u didnt talk to her, she deliberately tried to get your attention, and your name etc snap snap lol///

ask for her number

[Seymore]

dude she likes you... ask her out....

she payed enough attention to you being there that she was miffed u didnt talk to her, she deliberately tried to get your attention, and your name etc snap snap lol///

ask for her number

 

lol look at the post above yours. I guess it wasn't like that. That's the thing about me, whether it's my luck or whatever...a girl will give me every clue in the book she likes me (not to mention people around me swear up and down she likes me), and then when I go for it they say no or act like they aren't into me. I don't get it.

[TouchNastY]

[T]hat's twice I brought it up, twice I got shot down, and I don't remember ever having said to her that she was too old for me.

You're bailing too soon, and disqualifying yourself for her.

 

When she said, "I'm too young for you, remember?" you should have responded with, "Doesn't ring a bell. So I'm going to _____ on Friday...." This is token resistance provided to gauge how you react - assume the sale, so-to-speak, brush off any empty teases like that, and proceed with your plan. She likes you, and almost wants you to convince both of you that you do too. Read between the lines.

[she teased you about being gay, because you haven't pulled the trigger.]

[glucoze]

I sympathize with you, I do not understand women either.

Nor do I get along with the majority of them..

But i am sure you are bound to find that special person that isn't like the others.. especially ones i've seen on ENA.

[Seymore]

[T]hat's twice I brought it up, twice I got shot down, and I don't remember ever having said to her that she was too old for me.

You're bailing too soon, and disqualifying yourself for her.

 

When she said, "I'm too young for you, remember?" you should have responded with, "Doesn't ring a bell. So I'm going to _____ on Friday...." This is token resistance provided to gauge how you react - assume the sale, so-to-speak, brush off any empty teases like that, and proceed with your plan. She likes you, and almost wants you to convince both of you that you do too. Read between the lines.

[she teased you about being gay, because you haven't pulled the trigger.]

 

Ok, that does make sense, but what's with the game? I asked her out once even before that...what, I've gotta sit there and do it again and again and again? If I didn't like her I wouldn't have asked in the first place, you know?

[Curious_Girl]

I marched up to her, made some small talk, and suggested we go out. She said no, she has no time, etc. and continued the conversation like it was nothing.

 

How did you word it? Did she think you meant that night? Because the rest sounds like she's interested, so I don't get this.

 

So then she asked me if we were gay. I told her "If I were gay, would I have just asked you out?" She said "I'm too young for you, remember?"And so I said forget it - that's twice I brought it up, twice I got shot down, and I don't remember ever having said to her that she was too old for me.

 

You didn't ask her out twice; you asked her once. I can't tell tone from writing, but how did you say it the second time? Was it flirty? Or was it more like, duh!!! Of course not!! I'm getting the feeling it was the latter, and she responded with annoyance. Or did she say, "I'm too young..." in a flirty way? It does actually make a difference.

 

And as for telling her, you told T (she can read btwn the lines), which was as good as telling J. Girls do talk to each other, you know.

 

My folks and friend even swore she was flirting with me, and yet she's not interested...what the heck...any insight?

 

I think she IS interested, or she wouldn't have said anything to your parents.

[Curious_Girl]

She teased you about being gay, because you haven't pulled the trigger.

 

Yep I think so too.

[Seymore]

Thank you so much for the input, everyone, I truly appreciate it.

 

She wouldn't have thought that night especially since I was with my friend. I said it matter-of-factly, like "You work a lot! Next time you get a free night we should go out". Something close to that, I don't remember word for word. The second time wasn't really flirty, it was kind of a half-mocking "HelLO!!!!" tone, like Hello? If I was gay, how come I just asked you out?!? I didn't get the feeling she was annoyed, since that's how we pick on each other.

 

As for her saying "Besides, I'm too young, remember?" It had a tone of sarcasm in it that made the first thing that popped into my head "Oh, crap, T talked to her..." I had ASKED T not to tell her, and since I've known T for a couple of years, I figured she'd keep quiet.

 

So do you think I should ask again, like Friday night's conversation never happened? Maybe I could be persistent but more flirty about it?

 

 

How did you word it? Did she think you meant that night? Because the rest sounds like she's interested, so I don't get this.

 

 

 

You didn't ask her out twice; you asked her once. I can't tell tone from writing, but how did you say it the second time? Was it flirty? Or was it more like, duh!!! Of course not!! I'm getting the feeling it was the latter, and she responded with annoyance. Or did she say, "I'm too young..." in a flirty way? It does actually make a difference.

 

And as for telling her, you told T (she can read btwn the lines), which was as good as telling J. Girls do talk to each other, you know.

 

 

 

I think she IS interested, or she wouldn't have said anything to your parents.

[TouchNastY]

Tighten your game up a bit.

 

"You work a lot! Next time you get a free night we should go out"

should read:

"You work a lot! Next time you get a free night, we're getting ice cream at _______."

 

Make a declarative statement in favor of posing a question: "we're doing this," instead of "will you do this?" - it assumes affirmation, and she may acquiesce were she on the fence beforehand (getting back to that you-convincing-the-both-of-you point). What are you going to do when she responds, "No."? You're stuck. Avoid binary questions, and she can't give binary responses. She can still decline, but it gives you space to poke and prod under the guise of teasing to see if it's an excuse, or legitimate ("What, you don't like me?").

 

Stay composed by keeping all your immediate reactions as internal monologue, even if they want to leak out. Calling something out point-blank ("Hello? If I was gay, how come I just asked you out?!?") will kill any sort of attraction, so simply store it in your memory banks to ruminate over at a later date. Don't bring up past failures, as you may remind her of why she opted out in the first place - simply ameliorate the mistakes.

 

This isn't as hard as you're making it out to be. Your next approach is pretty easy:

 

"So when do they let you outta here today?"

"_

"Good, so there'll be enough time for us to go ________. I'll pick you up at _ - don't be late!"

 

Most likely she'll be busy and you won't go ________ (but hey, if she isn't, all the better, so be ready to ________, whatever ________ may be [________ should be something simple not bound by time, because you don't know if she'll call the "bluff," so nix the dinner reservations...too early for that anyways]), but your intent will have been made clear, and it'll give you an opportunity to switch digits ("Can't make it? You're missing out! Give me your number and we'll figure something."). Yes, it's asking her out knowing she won't be able to make it, but it forces her to play a card, and you'll know your answer. Sort of sneaky? Too bad!

 

 

Remember: when a girl promises not to tell, it means she'll only tell five people.

[Seymore]

ok...no binary questions. So she'll be working tomorrow, and Tuesday is my birthday. Maybe I could say "so tomorrows my birthday. When do you want to take me out for ice cream?"

 

If she avoids the question or turns it down, I can make a sad face and say "I guess my birthday wish won't come true after all...", but then again, that seems kind of underhanded, like I'd try to guilt her into it.

 

It's like I get the rebuttals set up in my mind beforehand, but then I get thrown for a loop and lose it, like when she said she was too young for me. I didn't see that coming.

[TouchNastY]

Sounds good.

If you meet with a seemingly negative response, you could try something harmless like, "But you're supposed to jump out of my cake!" or such. Yea, it's stupid, but it's playful and shows your interest. The dance is one of wit and euphemism.

 

I come up with stupid things like that all the time [is this a gift?], and my only advice for you would be to adopt that sort of playful mentality, rather than one of composed determinism. Expect the unexpected, right.

[Seymore]

Thanks, TouchNastY.

 

I can come up with stupid things like that in an instant too - before I had asked her out, we'd go back and forth talking smack to each other. It felt good because there have been few women I've known who I could do that with and neither of us would be insulted. But once it comes to stuff like asking her out and still keeping my wits about me, I fail miserably.

[Curious_Girl]

ok...no binary questions. So she'll be working tomorrow, and Tuesday is my birthday. Maybe I could say "so tomorrows my birthday. When do you want to take me out for ice cream?"

 

If she avoids the question or turns it down, I can make a sad face and say "I guess my birthday wish won't come true after all...", but then again, that seems kind of underhanded, like I'd try to guilt her into it.

 

It's like I get the rebuttals set up in my mind beforehand, but then I get thrown for a loop and lose it, like when she said she was too young for me. I didn't see that coming.

 

I like this idea, too. And TouchNasty's jumping out of the cake thing is funny! That would make me laugh for sure.

 

I like the way you've worded this. Personally - and I can only speak for myself - if a guy (or anyone) orders me around (e.g. We're going out for ice cream"), I get on the defensive right away. It is a big hot button for me and would turn me right off. But if you say it in a playful way - as above - it sounds good. No, it doesn't sound like your guiling her into it. Maybe try, "I guess.. come true TOMORROW. How about....(Sat, whatever)."

[Curious_Girl]

She wouldn't have thought that night especially since I was with my friend. I said it matter-of-factly, like "You work a lot! Next time you get a free night we should go out". Something close to that, I don't remember word for word. The second time wasn't really flirty, it was kind of a half-mocking "HelLO!!!!" tone, like Hello? If I was gay, how come I just asked you out?!? I didn't get the feeling she was annoyed, since that's how we pick on each other.

 

Okay, here's my take on this: the first time was too vague for her to really know what was going on. If she kept talking to you, I don't think she was turning you down. Honestly, if it were me and a guy asked me out and I turned him down, I would end the convo ASAP and certainly would not go over to talk to him later. Maybe she's some kind of game-player, but if not, I don't think you should take that seriously. If she is playing a game, good riddance to her.

 

The gay thing: again, too vague. If that's the way you joke around, she probably took it as such, and maybe even the first time. It's hard to say. And what was she supposed to say to that anyway?! "Oh, you just asked me out? huh? You were serious?" She'd look stupid. You've got to be more direct and actually ask her out on a specific date. If you do that and she turns you down, move on. I seriously wouldn't know what's up with her then.

 

As for her saying "Besides, I'm too young, remember?" It had a tone of sarcasm in it that made the first thing that popped into my head "Oh, crap, T talked to her..." I had ASKED T not to tell her, and since I've known T for a couple of years, I figured she'd keep quiet.

 

I have a rule that I NEVER tell anyone anything that I really don't want repeated, male or female, esp if it's the friend of a love interest. Even if T didn't mean to tell her, it could have slipped out. I am a very open, transparent person, so I have to constantly remind myself to keep my lips zipped when I'm interested in someone (even with my own friends, or they keep asking me about it).

[SighSob]

I missed posts. Useless reply I think.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Thanks, TouchNastY.

 

I can come up with stupid things like that in an instant too - before I had asked her out, we'd go back and forth talking smack to each other. It felt good because there have been few women I've known who I could do that with and neither of us would be insulted. But once it comes to stuff like asking her out and still keeping my wits about me, I fail miserably.

 

Just to keep things in perspective here...you DID say that she was too young for you, and you were going to drop the pursuit. You decided in the moment to change that...all of that's okay. And actually, I think you did really well. This wasn't a failure. You didn't react to her rejection, you continued the conversation and even teased her back about it after her gay comment. A good response after her "too young for you" comment would have been ideal to keep it going. But this is a great start - especially if you're just using this as a learning experience.

 

Up to that point, you had the right attitude going. Her comment about age threw you a bit. Rejection is a difficult thing to deal with, but it sounds like you did it without breaking stride. That is a HUGE issue for anyone to master. You showed her a tremendous amount of confidence throughout. Now, you just need to work on keeping that attitude from faltering. Is she the love of your life? Please! She's just some girl you're asking out on a date - BIG DEAL! That's the attitude you need to keep, even after the asking was put on the table and trampled on twice. This seems to be the kind of banter the two of you have been enjoying up to this point. It's been working, so don't stop! TouchNastY has given you some great advice - no binary questions, and move towards declarative statements.

 

If you're worried about a guilt date on your birthday...who cares? She's playing the game too, remember? If she wasn't interested, she wouldn't have continued talking to you. She wouldn't have talked to her co-worker and remembered your comment. If she wasn't playing games, the comment about her being too young would have been a good teasing line while you were ON your first date. That's pretty transparent, don't you think?

 

You've taken a huge bruising in stride. Now, if you can find a way to keep the attitude up, you'll keep the pressure off of yourself and you won't have to worry about foreshadowing rebuttals - they will just come to you on the spot. Remember, it's really a game at this point. Fun. Banter. Feel free to reel her in - at will.

[candykisses]

RE: the age thing, maybe you can do something like what this guy did? Game is a little weak but, at least he comes accross as genuine

 

 

him: I saw you. I think. You with your boyfriend right. Sorry didn't know

 

me: that's not my boyfriend, just a friend.

 

him: so I still have a chance : )

him: Call me, are you still going out tonight?

him: wanted to know if you wanna watch a movie

 

me: *blah blah blah*

 

him: So do you have a man in your life? sorry so forward

 

me: no, but I'm too young for you =p

 

him: Are you too young for me, or I'm too old for you? you're an amazing girl, and I don't give a ---- about age.

[Seymore]

Just to keep things in perspective here...you DID say that she was too young for you, and you were going to drop the pursuit.

 

That was my mistake, I admit - telling someone that. 2 weeks ago after she had kept asking how old I was and I told her, she said "That's not THAT old." If I hadn't said anything to T, I might've been in a more advantageous situation.

 

I'm used to rejection and things of the sort. After the crap I've been through with females, I think I deal with rejection well up-front - when I'm alone afterwards and thinking about it is when it upsets me. I just need to pull it together and KEEP it together as it's going on.

 

Tonight we'll see how it plays out.

[boo121]

you snooze you loose

[Curious_Girl]

no binary questions, and move towards declarative statements.

 

Again, that would royally tick me off. I don't know if she has a strong personality, but if she does...that could easily backfire.

 

Feel free to reel her in - at will.

 

Nice, Rich, really respectful. :sad:

[Day_Walker]

I dont think that the girl was messing with you in any respect. You went to see her multiple times and just made small talk and never made any kind of move. Asking a girl about her life is fine but if you want to get to know her then you have to ask her out. I think that you have learned a lesson here, that you need to make a move faster and get less involved with her prior to asking her out.

[Seymore]

So I didn't do it.

 

Something didn't feel right, and she was kind of crabby at first and busy with customers, so I went and asked T about her new puppy instead. While T was telling me about it, she kept motioning with her head and looking towards J. I don't know WHAT that was about. I did tell J that tomorrow is my birthday and she wished me a happy birthday, and then she told me all the same stuff she told me on Friday night and I kept saying "Yes, you told me". Then she says "Wow, I tell you everything, you're like my BFF." So a little later, while I was standing at my parents table talking to them, J comes around the corner and gives me a big hug and says "Happy birthday old man!". All of a sudden she's in a better mood.

 

T was in a really bad way - she had a massive headache and her medicine ran out. Her husband wasn't home to get her prescription for her, so I offered to run out and get it since T is definitely a good person in my book. As T is writing her address down for me to give to the pharmacy, J asks if I can go to Subway and get her dinner. Knowing I can't say yes to one and no to the other, I say fine. J is getting her money out and I'm telling her to hurry up because her friend is in pain. She says "I can hurry up if you want all quarters" and I say sarcastically "Hey, I'm an old man, remember? I'll do all pennies because that's how we do things." T told J to knock it off and that I wasn't an old man. I go, get the drugs, go to Subway and they don't have what J wanted. I could have called the place J works at but I say forget it - I shouldn't have to be calling her because she wrote down the wrong thing. So I drive back, give her back her money and tell her they don't have it. She starts whining and while the "nice guy" in me wanted to say "Do you want something else? I'll go get it?", I didn't for once. So I asked T if she was going to be ok, said bye to them and left because I had errands to run.

 

So that's the story, plus a ton of details that probably weren't necessary. J's working every day this week so I'll see her again. I just didn't feel it was absolutely necessary to do anything else right now - I did ask her out and I don't feel it was vague to the point where it slipped right by her. She knows, and can't say I didn't. I feel like I've danced too long to keep playing this game. I could have thought a little better on my feet last Friday night and that's something I can work on for the next time, but day after day, I'm supposed to play this game? I should have asked her out earlier, I do admit. Best I can do now is just be friendly around her and not think about it, because I've spent far too much time thinking about this.

[TouchNastY]

Hey, her loss.

Few things:

 

Points for getting the medicine, but Fail on the Subway test. You about cemented your role as "BFF" by being her delivery service. Look at it objectively: she declines to spend time with you, but has no qualms in juicing you for favors? And, yes, it's juicing in this sense. Whether intentionally is beside the point (sometimes these "tests" are unconscious, and not blatant manipulation - how you respond, though, is still very telling); you can tell her "no" by teasing her ("Hey, the Superhero only does one rescue a day"), but don't friendzone yourself.

 

Don't let her define the nature of your relationship - you tested the waters and got ice; she tested the waters and you gave, to an extent. Give inches, and they take feet.

 

At this point, while she may be ambivalent, definitely do not make her decision for her and emasculate yourself into a platonic pushover. Again, leave past failures in the past, correct mistakes for the future. You can still banter with her, but don't ask her out again - you've played your card (multiple times), and she knows. And you don't owe her any favors - don't fall into the trap. Also, I'd stop sharing things (regarding J) with T.

[There is a distinct difference between ordering medicine and getting someone's lazy ass food. You did pick up on it, albeit wavered between the two. Make this an everyday practice - you teach other people how to treat you.]