What PUA books should I get?

[tiredofvampires]

LBS, I have a strong feeling that PUA tactics are only going to give you more information -- more approaches -- but not what it will finally take to get you out of your rut.

 

You are an intelligent and sensitive guy. But you have a rut that is stemming from various insecurities that I don't sense you've resolved: you feel that lookswise, you could use some tuning up, you have a "freeze up" reaction in talking to girls and engaging them in conversations (whatever happened to the therapy you were getting for social anxiety disorder? did that terminate, and was it resolved in any measureable way??), and you feel you don't know how you'd keep a conversation going. I haven't read PUA materials (but judging by the critics' opinions on this thread, I just might have a look, since I'm up for amusing reads about this kind of thing), and some of this may be addressed, but I get an intuitive feeling that getting out of your rut is going to take one thing no book can give you:

 

The nerve to step out of your self-protective inclinations, be willing to make an ass out of yourself, and start chatting up women. This would be your best way to practice.

 

Do you have hobbies and interests?

Do you have other social connections? (with males or females)

Do you have plans and dreams?

Do you have ideas/opinions about the world, society, things going on in it?

Do you have beliefs about anything of a philosophical or spiritual nature?

 

Your avatar would seem to indicate you like to read...do you like to learn and read, then? Because enjoying learning about someone and "reading" them (watching their facial expressions and body language, and tuning into how that's making you feel) is really what the initial dating process is about.

 

If you have these things I listed, it's just a matter of finding a situation that looks conducive, picking a natural conversation-starter to get the ball rolling (based on whatever environment you're in) and allowing elements from this stash of goods that you have to enter, conversationally, as appropriate.

 

But nothing is going to happen with all the advice and techniques plotted and articulated in the world if you don't first feel like you're putting the very best you forward. You'll continue to stymie yourself with doubts. So first pour the foundation: get yourself looking and feeling as prepared as you can, with material from what I listed to pull from.

 

Then from there, you just have to agree with yourself that you might be a flop the first few times, but what you have to break is not your virginity, it's your phobia of taking a risk.

 

There are no magic words imo, or magic books that will do for you what you need to do. You are not a player, you are not some suave, shrewd Don Juan (and that's a good thing), so if you read these books, there may be a few interesting peripheral tips, but I think you're mostly going to find symptomatic answers to a fundamental problem here, which is your fear. Only you can take that step.

 

If I were you, I'd be more inclined to practice visualizing women as burping, farting, crapping, and walking around the house with sloppy pj's than I'd be inclined to buy PUA books. Anything to take the mystique out of this, and instead consider this as ordinary as talking to a clerk in the video rental store.

 

It's not magic.

[Dako]

 

If I were you, I'd be more inclined to practice visualizing women as burping, farting...

 

Kinda ruins the whole untouchable goddess angle.

[tiredofvampires]

Kinda ruins the whole untouchable goddess angle.

 

And ruined it must be.

 

See, like take me, LBS. Let's practice. It's a Sunday afternoon, and I've had some particularly greasy falafel for lunch. Do you like falafel, or Mediterranean cuisine in general?

 

Think about that, while I go take care of some "business" in the next room. *groan*

 

Can you help me down from my pedestal, Dako?

 

Oh and btw, I really like your new avvy. It has a cute, anthropomorphic quality about it.

[LightbulbSun]

TOV, that's a long post. I'll try to respond to each part of it.

 

 

 

You're absolutely right. The problem is, at my age girls expect me to act smooth and not nervous, because I'm supposed to have all this experience. My inexperience gives me away.

 

I think social anxiety feeds on itself. I'm afraid to feel anxious, so I avoid situations that make me feel anxious, and as a result, I feel more anxious for getting older and not experiencing the same things everyone else has experienced. It's a downward spiral.

 

 

Yes, I go to music concerts, enjoy reading, writing and playing music, playing video games, watching movies, and enjoy watching some sports.

 

 

 

To be honest, I do and don't. I have close to 90 friends on my Facebook, but I haven't talked to 99% of them in years. And I can't seem to make new friends, it seems impossible for me. I don't have the skills anymore.

 

Yes, I want to work in the music industry.

 

Yes, for example I'm really for the health care bill, and I'm for gay rights (to marry.) And other stuff like that.

 

I believe in God, if that's what you mean. I don't believe in Jesus, because most Christians tend to be homophobic.

 

 

 

You're right, except I've never been good at reading people. In fact, my therapist has considered that I have Aspergers, because I tend to read blank faces as angry or upset, and tend to be off in my own little world.

 

 

 

You're right. Except I think that magic does play into it, because all these players and men who are really good with women have something I don't. I don't know what it is, but it seems like it's pretty common among older virgin guys to lack that "magic."

 

If I envision girls as burping, farting, etc, I can make good friends, but it never progresses past that. That's why I want to get into PUA, because they seem to know how to make seduction work. I lack the ability to seduce, all I have is the ability to make a connection, and that always turns out to be friendship.

[Capricorn3]

In fact, my therapist has considered that I have Aspergers, because I tend to read blank faces as angry or upset, and tend to be off in my own little world.

I was going to suggest therapy, but then I see you already do go for therapy/counselling. I had no idea. Is it specifically for anxiety, or something totally unrelated? How long have you been going and is it helping in any way?

[LightbulbSun]

I was going to suggest therapy, but then I see you already do go for therapy/counselling. I had no idea. Is it specifically for anxiety, or something totally unrelated? How long have you been going and is it helping in any way?

 

I was diagnosed with Bipolar when I was 16, and I've been going to therapists since I was 14. Basically I battled depression and mania in my teens, and the social anxiety came later as a result of having bipolar (it's actually pretty common.)

 

I'm broke right now, so I can't afford another session for a while with my therapist. I think the last time I saw him was back in December, 2009.

 

We were working on trying to get me a date. He's trying to improve my self esteem and confidence, and was working on trying to get me hooked up with internet dating. I'm cynical about dating sites, though, I don't think they really work.

 

Therapy has helped, though, because I used to be so scared that I couldn't even leave my house (this was when I lived with my mom/grandma.) Now, I have my own apartment, and I go to college and walk around and go in stores and places. I even take the bus, which was a huge fear of mine a year ago (I was scared after I saw that news story about the Canadian teen who was decapitated by a crazy man on the metro. I kept on thinking it could have been me.)

[LightbulbSun]

I've come to learn that PUA is probably not going to get me what I want. Since I have crippling social anxiety, I need to get over that first before I start thinking about approaching women.

 

And I'd probably do better at just improving my interests and pursuing them, rather than approaching random women. Cold approaches don't work unless you're Brad Pitt.

 

So basically, this thread is useless.

[GoneCrazy]

I'm reading the game book right now it shows you some tips but overall from what i've read i've found PUAs are just d-bags. They all seem to use simple magic to start a convo or impress a girl. That said they do give out some good advice like dress differently from everyone else, not over the top and not to boring.

 

From what i've learned if you can go up to a girl say hi, introduce yourself thats all that you need to start a convo and pick up girls. As for flirting you can start a thread and everyone and anyone will give you there tips thats helped.

 

One guy in the book says how he wen't up to a girl at a juice bar asked how her day was going asked her to closer her eyes she did, he snuck in a kiss, she screamed and said it was the most exciting thing thats happened to her in awhile Listen i don't care who you are there is no way some stranger who you met after less then a min kisses unexpectingly you are you gonna be fine, if women do like this then i don't understand this world.

 

But i heared this book is selling like crazy so i say give it a try it might workout better for you. As for me i think its all b.s.

[Go Habs Go]

I've come to learn that PUA is probably not going to get me what I want. Since I have crippling social anxiety, I need to get over that first before I start thinking about approaching women.

 

And I'd probably do better at just improving my interests and pursuing them, rather than approaching random women. Cold approaches don't work unless you're Brad Pitt.

So basically, this thread is useless.

 

 

Somehow, I think if Brad Pitt wasn't a celebrity, he wouldn't be considered anything more than a decent looking guy.

[ProtestTheHero]

Somehow, I think if Brad Pitt wasn't a celebrity, he wouldn't be considered anything more than a decent looking guy.

 

No, he would get a lot of attention still. Depp wasn't that well known when he was considered to be a heart throb because his biggest role to that point was some teen series that didn't get a lot of traffic. I'm sure Pitt was the same way. The celebrity factor adds status, but it doesn't inflate their looks. Guys who would be average would be dudes like Ben Stiller, Owen Wilson, etc. but guys like Pitt, Depp, Butler, Ferrell, et. al would massively pull.

 

ANYWAYS:

 

I recommend books that focus on inner game. This is what you will need. These books will focus on the proper frame of mind to sustain when talking with women, the proper way to frame your relationship with her (aka no goddess worship), the way to create, build, and sustain confidence in yourself as a man and viable sexual being, etc. etc. You don't necessarily need a series of one-liners and openers unless you blank out because you aren't interesting and have nothing to say. If you're a relatively interesting person amongst guys and friends and women just make you nervous, inner game is the most important thing you need to address. If you find that you're nervous because you have nothing to say, then the other stuff would help too.

 

I sort of had the same inner game issues but I fixed it accidentally in sort of a warped way where I realized that it's difficult for me to be nervous around a group of people that for the most part I don't respect.

[Go Habs Go]

No, he would get a lot of attention still. Depp wasn't that well known when he was considered to be a heart throb because his biggest role to that point was some teen series that didn't get a lot of traffic. I'm sure Pitt was the same way. The celebrity factor adds status, but it doesn't inflate their looks. Guys who would be average would be dudes like Ben Stiller, Owen Wilson, etc. but guys like Pitt, Depp, Butler, Ferrell, et. al would massively pull.

 

 

I don't know. I'm not saying he isn't good looking, but I just think he's not as good looking as some people make him out to be.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Somehow, I think if Brad Pitt wasn't a celebrity, he wouldn't be considered anything more than a decent looking guy.

 

Are you kidding? he is gorgeous! I wish all decent looking guys looked like him.

[dog stevens]

While we're on the topic of celebrities, I think Ashton Kutcher and Eminem are perfect examples of the kind of guys I usually see doing really well with women. Just study their personalities.

[Go Habs Go]

While we're on the topic of celebrities, I think Ashton Kutcher and Eminem are perfect examples of the kind of guys I usually see doing really well with women. Just study their personalities.

 

 

I agree. Though their personalities are different, both are unique. Same with Will Ferrell, Ben Stiller, and Charlie Sheen.

[dog stevens]

I agree. Though their personalities are different, both are unique. Same with Will Ferrell, Ben Stiller, and Charlie Sheen.

 

I definitely agree with Charlie Sheen. But I don't think Ben Stiller and Will Ferrell aren't cocky enough, sure they are funny, but you have to be both cocky and funny from what I've observed.

[Go Habs Go]

I definitely agree with Charlie Sheen. But I don't think Ben Stiller and Will Ferrell are cocky enough, sure they are funny, but you have to be both cocky and funny from what I've observed.

 

 

Yep. Saying that cockiness is a turnoff couldn't be more wrong.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Yep. Saying that cockiness is a turnoff couldn't be more wrong.

 

It totally is a turn off to me. I have rejected guys for this sole reason before. However, if I feel like you act cocky as a way of being funny, then it's ok and I can even like it.

[LightbulbSun]

Yep. Saying that cockiness is a turnoff couldn't be more wrong.

 

I agree, and that's why I think Double Your Dating (the only PUA thing I've downloaded) is worth reading. I don't know about all the other 'tricks' that are used, but cocky humor is something that universally is attractive to women - and DYD seems to be heavy on learning how to use that.

[dog stevens]

Yep. Saying that cockiness is a turnoff couldn't be more wrong.

 

Whoops, I meant to say that Ben Stiller and Will Ferrell AREN'T cocky.

[Go Habs Go]

It totally is a turn off to me. I have rejected guys for this sole reason before. However, if I feel like you act cocky as a way of being funny, then it's ok and I can even like it.

 

 

You just contradicted yourself. First, you said it's a turnoff, then you said it's fine if it's being funny.

 

 

I agree, and that's why I think Double Your Dating (the only PUA thing I've downloaded) is worth reading. I don't know about all the other 'tricks' that are used, but cocky humor is something that universally is attractive to women - and DYD seems to be heavy on learning how to use that.

 

 

I'm not big on the PUA stuff, but I've seen it person so many times. Cockiness is NOT a turnoff.

[dog stevens]

I agree, and that's why I think Double Your Dating (the only PUA thing I've downloaded) is worth reading. I don't know about all the other 'tricks' that are used, but cocky humor is something that universally is attractive to women - and DYD seems to be heavy on learning how to use that.

 

Does Double Your Dating talk about how to find things to make fun of girls for? I completely understand the concept of cocky and funny, but if you asked me to go find a girl and make fun of her, I wouldn't have a clue in the world how to find something to make fun of her for.

[Sparkly Eyes]

You just contradicted yourself. First, you said it's a turnoff, then you said it's fine if it's being funny.

 

hmm, how did I contradict myself? If they are seriously over confident, I don't like it. But if they just make jokes about how great they are, then I find it funny so it's ok.

[Go Habs Go]

hmm, how did I contradict myself? If they are seriously over confident, I don't like it. But if they just make jokes about how great they are, then I find it funny so it's ok.

 

 

Because you just said cockiness is a turn off, then you said it's a turn on if it's a funny type of cocky. It's either you like cockiness or you don't. I have seen countless situations where women will say cockiness is a turnoff and whatever the logical answer is, yet in a real life scenario, it all goes out the window.

 

I'm fairly new here and I know my answers won't always be the most popular or politically correct, but I never BS people(men and women both). I'm always honest with what I say and I won't sugarcoat the truth.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Because you just said cockiness is a turn off, then you said it's a turn on if it's a funny type of cocky. It's either you like cockiness or you don't. I have seen countless situations where women will say cockiness is a turnoff and whatever the logical answer is, yet in a real life scenario, it all goes out the window.

 

I'm fairly new here and I know my answers won't always be the most popular or politically correct, but I never BS people(men and women both). I'm always honest with what I say and I won't sugarcoat the truth.

 

I'm not BSing you. Maybe I didn't describe what I meant very well. I am a perfect example of what I meant. Sometimes I start saying how great I am in a funny way to make people laugh. Does it mean that I really believe in what I say? hell no. It is not "real cockiness". I don't like people that are actually self centered and over confident.

[Go Habs Go]

I'm not BSing you. Maybe I didn't describe what I meant very well. I am a perfect example of what I meant. Sometimes I start saying how great I am in a funny way to make people laugh. Does it mean that I really believe in what I say? hell no. It is not "real cockiness". I don't like people that are actually self centered and over confident.

 

 

Cockiness is cockiness, even if it's meant to be funny and harmless. There's a fine line between confidence and cockiness. Every guy I have ever spoken to says they have had an easier time getting laid by being cocky. There's a reason men lean towards cocky instead of mild-mannered and humble.