rich 1517 - here we go again, scared but confident and awake

[rich_1517]

Hey Jony

 

like the face. we have been broken up for five months. the first two clearly broken up but in reality we have not had a week of no contact (except when i asked for it) since she ended it. after two months she said lets date and see.

 

we were "official" for three years.

[guesswho]

My advice would be to keep going with the flow. She's initiating more and more time spent together--I would be afraid pressure would scare her off and you'd lose more ground. You saw a little while ago that pressure (or talking) did not get you any answers or results and actually hurt your confidence and position, so why try again?

 

I don't really know what to tell you about the intimate contact area. I would have expected that to improve by now and I wouldn't have cared for her comment about you "losing that privilege" if I were you. I guess you have no choice but to be patient if you want to see where this is going to go. You seem like a couple in every other way....maybe she wants to be sure that you guys are good together and that things are different before she takes that step. Maybe she's scared that taking that step and then changing her mind will make you mad; or perhaps she sees that as the "point of no return" and isn't quite ready to cross the line yet. Who knows, maybe it's not even a conscious decision on her part, but more of a reaction for whatever reason....fear of commitment, fear of intimacy, etc. Of course I don't know anything for sure, just throwing out some things for you to think about.

 

One question: Does she seem to want to spend time with you alone too or mostly with her son?

 

Anyway, good luck and enjoy your time together.

[rich_1517]

in answer to your question about with me alone or only son. its now an equal split between both.

 

to show some self direction on this a little respect is needed. i am going to take some work up with me this weekend, and tell her i need at least a couple of hours to do it, if she can accept that.

 

the other is that i may say i might want to sleep in another bed unless she asks me to join her.

 

i have been in the camp of she knows once we cross that line the "friends" thing is out the window. many people do friends with privileges but we arent that wouldnt happen, its the opposite, im the lover without privileges.

[rich_1517]

man am i struggling with fear and anger today. i pushed on her last night on the phone. i said isnt it a little strange to go away for two weeks with things so relationally ambigous? and then said well do you mind if i bring a date?

 

obviously i have to slow down my rage and the fact that i am not getting what i want right now.

 

patience is difficult when my fears of what might be happening take over. this is just for today, becuase i am in fear about work right now. things are looking good but there is nothing concrete again. and that makes being grounded hard. so i will stay in no resolution mode, nothing to figure out today.

 

i have decide if i am going to go up to her moms, i think i will ride up saturday on my own and not with her for four days.

[rich_1517]

today i confront diplomatically.

 

basically its an email to say "i need you to want to talk to me" not "we have to talk"

 

i need to know what you want with or from me so i know how to move forward.

 

to be so close and so distant from limited physical and conversation makes it very hard to know whats going on and it can be frustrating.

 

we have a great time together, and we are best friends. i know we would have a great time this weekend.

 

i need you to want to talk to me before i commit to a weekend away. and its ok if you dont want to. its just a little frustrating right now.

 

 

we'll see what happens.

 

we had a great time last night, but again when i went over the physical line (my nature) she let me but then i asked was that innappropriate? she said yes.

 

but she did let me. and i could feel that she liked it (mild touching and strokes)

 

sigh.

[rich_1517]

so she responded this time to my condition of no weekend without you talking.

 

she is now asking me to follow her lead for comfort. she knows its frustrating and cinfusing. she is willing to talk about intimacy. so i agreed. again be careful what you ask for...

 

i am up here now in the woods and its just us. i dont really want to talk. we are fine without it, she is moving closer physically. sigh.

 

i dont know what to say, i asked for this. but my gut says to do this:

 

"the goal of keeping communication open is so we dont misunderstand and feel frustrated or angry. but for you its important i think that you feel you can say what you dont want to, to me but feel you should. and to know that i wont judge you for it or think bad of you. we spent too much time in our own locked up heads without really feeling we were accomplishing anything with the other.

 

basiscally along those lines, the idea is to get her to "want' to open up and see that its effective. of course i could be creating a monster here.

 

this is also for me to. i do have to ask her what she sees right now from me. this means i have to hear friends again, even though its really not that.

[rich_1517]

first conversation went well. she is still not saying a whole lot but i asked her what she meant by follow my lead and this was funny she said "if grab .... then its probably a good idea to ...."

 

she said she understands she has to express more of her feelings so i dont have to be as empathic and guess. i yelled "yes" and then said absolutely. i kept it simple and light, and told her the idea is that you feel you can say anything you need to to and know i will still care.

 

the idea or premise behind that is people let go of their barriers if someone else will accept the worst that can be said. so far that has been true. definitely a new one on me.

 

she is pressing about the two week trip with me, her son and her. this is tricky for me. what do you see. on one side it certainly keeps things in the mix with a focus for a while.

 

i am concerned that she will not try to push her comfort zone out of friends if we go as we are now. it would be me as the neutered ex boyfriend now friend.

 

i want to tell her that i need to see some forward movement before committing, that being there in aguest room or no physical could be very damaging. i want to tell her that its better to date and let things materialize or not then commit to time away, having a better idea of how we stand.

 

or i could just keep playing to her comfort zone until she gives up. ideas?

[danimal77]

Rich,

 

Did you get my PM?

 

Dan

[rich_1517]

hmm. well you never know what you will do.

 

she is still pushing on the trip. i said emphatically now that if there is no romance and i am in another room then the answer is no.

 

then I said my fear now is I may resent you, that you could turn around say you love me, want to marry me but im burnt out. oops or not oops.

 

to save myself i said that some days im not sure. but that was just a catch truth is some days im not sure. a friend who has watched this go on put it this way "for some reason you both love each other but something is in the way."

 

i said if i commit to the trip in a month then me dating anyone else is out, there is no way i can say "im taking a platonic trip for two weeks with my ex, can i call you when i get back?" i said it totally tongue in cheek but the message is "you asking me to keep in this with you, and your reason is why?"

 

we have had a lot more physical attention this weekend, we are alone and having a lot of fun. i dont want to sleep in the same bed right now so chose the guest room on purpose, too frustrating to be that close and that far.

 

she has said we can experiment in mexico, i laughed and said you want a commitment now with offer of romance, i want romance before i commit.

 

tonight is mutual massage night. we have real table and well im very good. last night i gave her one and could have gone over the line easily. but i am building intimacy trust, that when is on her terms.

 

anyone make sense of this?

 

i think the story will turn ok. i have to keep the focus on my life, one thing about this weekend is i brought work. I highly suggest something like it if you are doing this. it shows she isnt my only concern in my life.

 

 

talk to you soon

[rich_1517]

we are back to sleeping in the same bed.

 

sloooowww. i agreed to the trip. i said i love you she said i love you too. i said ok lets go.

 

to anyone wandering down this path do not do so lightly. it requires patience, confidence and demonstrated unconditional love through acceptance of their terms.

 

i have provided a comfort zone which she now moves in very confidently at times but is moving. the trip has made the idea of others out of the question. we both confirmed that others are offically out.

 

so i will take this weekend and the six weeks that now come with my agreement and focus on my life and changes for me.

 

the next barried is more intiimacy, i will not post details here but she is coming further all the time. and eventually will let me over the line.

 

seems patnetic at times, what i have agreed to put myself through and i wonder if i havent built a house out of sand. i guess as she comes further, the sand gets more solid. hence the unavoidable reality that we can not allow someone to lose respect or take us for granted.

 

still open to ideas.

[rich_1517]

oooh look, more posts by me.

 

its cathatic. well after this weekend i see i have to boot the remainder of my insecurities. we are getting so close to the line that i get nervous.

 

it was easy when she was distant, and it was easy when she was close.

 

last night i was going to sleep in the other room, she invited me to sleep with her. she said thats what you were looking glum about wasnt it? i said no (lie) but if she would like me to sleep with her or the other room its fine.

 

we are kissing a lot more and more contact.

 

but that measn nothing for now.

 

she is attracted to confidence, and though i want to be held sometimes and lose some of the past pain and current fears this isnt the time and she isnt the one yet. so i have to take it elsewhere.

 

but i do realise that showing my feelings in a genuine vulnerable way is also attractive to her, its not needy i just say it. "this is hard sometimes".

 

now after five days together its time to give her a break and me. we have the trip locked up for next month. this means i have to talk to L, it is no longer ok to accept any attention at all from her.

 

i have comitted myself for six weeks to someone who is uncomitted to me beyond what we are doing. so now ihave to watch. i have said i want her to meet me in the middle, her comfort zone and mine finding a way to lead to intimacy.

 

sigh..... hanging tough.

[rich_1517]

well i ended up staying at her house all day and working becuase she drove off with my keys. we went to dinner and then the movies. but tired and not feeling well i went home after. truth is i was already having the "post weekend" sadness. she picked up on it, said i was glum.

 

wish i coulndt be so down sometimes. but its hard in the face of not getting some of the reassurance that i want. i know she wants me to be excited about the trip. im just not right now. i have comitted to someone who is not comitted to me.

 

something has to change in the next month. i knew the trip would up the pressure.

 

suggestions about how to get her to step over the line welcome. its now about falling in love again for her. she loves me and now says it a lot.

 

my life is hurting and it makes me mad that it isnt orgnaized the way i want yet (money, work) i keep getting setbacks that i cant believe.

 

it affects my confidence and i get scared to go near her while i am depressed. inufriating. but ihave learned now, not to discus any feelings when i am down.

 

giving us a break from us is a good idea right now. we had a decent weekend. she has already asked me to do things next weekend with her and her son.

 

this is hard some days.

[rich_1517]

ok now im going to need advice!

 

so the trip is on. we have done yet again more stuff this week.

 

so it came down to discussion of sleeping arraingments. she was willing to do a one bedroom on the trip. her son is coming.

 

intimacy would not work with that idea.

 

so i decided to push.

 

what is she thinking about that - answer her son always sleeps with her on vacations away. i said hmmm, we have to work that out.

 

so i asked pretty plainly what are you thinking? about sex, intimacy. etc.

 

she waffled and said that she wanted to experiment on the trip to see what we are. bascically its the deciding point of relationship again or not. and lets be honest, we go there and we wont come back. its who we are. next would be move in, then marriage.

 

 

so i said please look at sex, intimacy before we go so i know my role before we go so we both can "feel" more comfortable.

 

she is now thinking about that. but i did push last night and said "my love you will put off a difficult decision forever if you can come up with a valid reason" she agreed.

 

 

she said she is. i said ok i will not pressure you again, but please come tlak to me or i will be cranky.

 

thoughts on what i just did? should i let it sit? let her off the hook to answer before we go?

[craigblitz]

I think you guys are pretty much a couple now don't you. Have you ever been in a realtionship where they were nervous about taking the next step. Well the best thing to do is just have fun. Do not bring it up again the entire trip. Why do you need to, do you not think she knows what you want and feel now. Of course she does... Let it ride bro... I think you know you guys will be together very soon.

[rich_1517]

well we will see if my change is now too late. man i get it. my confidence was not what i thought it was. how i know? becuase i have it back. things in my life are still chaotic as much as i try to change it.

 

she is seeing that and i hope not judging me too hard on it. but i am also angry right now that i have been working to hard to make my life work, her work, etc, etc. im just a little frustrated.

 

yeah no more talking. hopefully i havent pushed her away with the times i said "talk" then "not talk" its eratic. also the finances have to bother her becuase i have to sell much of what i own to make things work right now.

 

life is uhmm interesting.

 

i will keep you posted.