Thoughts, ramblings

[annie24]

maybe something you should think about is things you can control vs. things you cannot control. you can control having a child, you can control saving up for retirement, you can choose if you take nice vacations.... but you can't control if your only child dies in a bus accident, for example. you could have 2 or more children (maximizing the chances that one of them will survive into adulthood), but really, it doesn't sound like you really want to be a parent, much less take care of 3 or 4 children for 30 years.

 

it's kind of like job hunting in some ways - you can have the right degree and the right skills, but if your company decides to lay off your division, there's not much you can do, except for applying to new jobs. it's rather frustrating, but there are no gaurantees in life.

 

even if you get married, how do you know your husband won't leave you in 5 years? you don't. life is scary sometimes.

[marshmlofluff]

I agree with Annie. Also, even if all of the above are problems, I still have reservations that saying basically "I came back because I couldn't find anyone to marry" is the best possible solution. It's also not fully true. I like Annie's idea of saying that there were many factors--job, personal, family, visa, etc. Or maybe even that you preferred to marry someone in India. Basically, try to put a positive and optimistic spin on your answer, if possible--not a negative one. You left because you were proactively seeking a better life, not because you were fleeing a worse one.

 

Don't forget--these men also want to get married. They are also in their 30s and due to living in a culture where everyone gets married and has kids and there is a huge stigma on not doing so, they are under much more intense pressure to find someone than men in the US were. I seriously doubt there is an infinite supply of women who meet every item on their checklist--otherwise they would already be married.

 

So I think you should just be honest, and present yourself--but your best self. Also in the US you were meeting at most one guy every few months. It sounds like there is at least a large potential pool of partners now, so you don't have to be so afraid of every meeting. If one meeting doesn't go well, another guy will come along, and as soon as something works out, you'll be married. And even if you are still having some rejections, at least they are happening fast--as opposed to here where everything was getting dragged out for months.

 

Sounds like things are looking up, L.

[marshmlofluff]

Some thoughts...

 

Me - I'm the only child, I came back to be closer to my parents. (I'm trying to be short and not give too much information about my personal life and decision)

Him - Oh... but you belong to city X and I am/may get posted to city Y. Guess you won't be ready to leave your parents alone then.

You - Actually, I am willing to move within India. In India it is only a short trip home, and there are no immigration constraints on going to see my parents. The US was too far away and due to visa issues, I could not come home whenever I needed to.

 

Him - Oh... but I tend to go/my company wants to send me to the US on a 2-year contract. You wont' be able to go with me, I guess.

 

You - I am willing to go abroad again for two years, but due to my family I would ultimately like to settle in India. [This is true, no?]

[LAYAAN]

Met someone on the 7th for coffee.

[LAYAAN]

Some thoughts...

You - I am willing to go abroad again for two years, but due to my family I would ultimately like to settle in India. [This is true, no?]

If I could do things my way, I would not want to stay in India. I've to because my father doesn't want to leave his own home, much less live in a different country. Because he wont' leave his home, my mom is also stuck here to take care of him. Now, both of them are here, they frequently need medical attention. They call their relatives for help. The relatives are angry "Don't you have a child of your own? You do, right? So, you either go where your child is or you call your child back and ask her to take care you or you go to an old-age home. Why do you put your burden on us? Don't we have our share of responsibilities? And this is not a matter of just one day. It has been years since your daughter hasn't showed up. This is a long-term problem, you need to find a solution to it. You can't burden us for everything."

They are not wrong. That is why I'm here. After my parents' death, I have nothing that binds me to this country. I'd be happy to leave this country then.

[LAYAAN]

I regret not returning home right after my PhD. I thought 'well, I would get a job with work visa and then think about what I want to do.' 90% of the readers on the ethnic forum (an online forum where I presented my case in late 2010) told me to finish my education and simply head home. I didn't listen and now here I'm. I came back to my homeland a year later. I'm telling myself 'better now than later', but I really see that I could have been married by now to someone, I could have gotten a job here, my life could have started. I feel that I simply wasted my time in the US hoping to get a job, trying to get a job, and really landing nowhere.

 

Now when I look at the matrimonial site, I see how there are fewer men remaining for me and the competition is fierce (since these men can marry younger women). I wonder if I get a job, if that would give me a boost in the marriage market. It may/may not. It all comes down to biological age. The man I recently met said "My mom has told me to marry a younger woman so I don't have any problem in having a child." He is right. I asked myself... really what is it that I bring to the table? Nothing that men here can't find in the local market. I have a PhD which won't help me mint money anywhere. I hope to land a job, but that's it. Nothing more than that. I'm no longer young and my fertility is questionable. I don't have a job and definitely won't get a great job by current IT standard salary in my country. I may be mature, but who wants that? I really feel that I've made a big mess of my life and I don't know how to undo any of this. I am having sleepless nights. I think if I could take my life back to year 1994, I would do things differently. But I can't now. I just have to keep moving forward.

[LAYAAN]

I sometimes wonder if I should write a guidebook for women from my culture trying to go abroad, explaining the harsh reality there to make these girls aware of what to expect and how to avoid finding yourself in the ditch? What I've faced in the US is not unique. The reason I can say this is because I see many good quality women from my culture in my age group (30-40) struggling with same challenges. So, its no longer due to my looks, my education, my job profile. The issues are more general than specific and affect many women.

[LAYAAN]

Something I've noticed here is that it is difficult to find a quality woman in her 30s, single and wants to get married, baggage-free, educated, healthy, no psychological issues. Even though there are men age 34-38, and even though they would like to marry someone they can talk to, has similar maturity level, its difficult for these men to find such a woman in this culture. There is a huge supply of such women in age 25-29, so I see a lot of men lowering the age bar and getting married to women younger to them. Not only the culture, but the education system is such that if you pursue any professional degree, you have graduated and earning at age 21. Unless you go to pursue PhD level education, why would you stay single? If you are done pursuing education, you have a job, you are ready for marriage. You get married and settle down. That's why its difficult to find women age 30+ in this culture that have nothing visibly lacking in 'em and are still single. If you spot such a woman here, its because she is picky. (I might seem like I'm overgeneralizing, but I think I understand this pretty clear)

 

 

Where as in the US (strictly speaking of south Asian immigrant population), considering immigration rules at various levels, getting acceptance into a program, finally completing the program, finding a job, etc. increases a person's age significantly. So, its quite common to find a woman age 30+ that is good quality and looking to get married.

 

The problem is that men in the US have a much wider pool at their disposal. Most men from my culture (unless they have met someone on their own in the US/their visa prohibits them from marrying someone from outside USA) don't limit their search to women based in the US only. If they are seriously looking to get married, they will visit their homeland 1-2x per year and select a woman and get married. Whereas women from my culture in the US seem to marry only men that have lived in the US. So, these women have much smaller pool to choose from compared to men. That further reduces their chances of finding a man and inevitably increases their age in this process.

[marshmlofluff]

I regret not returning home right after my PhD. I thought 'well, I would get a job with work visa and then think about what I want to do.' 90% of the readers on the ethnic forum (an online forum where I presented my case in late 2010) told me to finish my education and simply head home. I didn't listen and now here I'm. I came back to my homeland a year later. I'm telling myself 'better now than later', but I really see that I could have been married by now to someone, I could have gotten a job here, my life could have started. I feel that I simply wasted my time in the US hoping to get a job, trying to get a job, and really landing nowhere.

 

L.--it wasn't even a year, no? As you say, better now than later. Life is long...in the end, one year here or there does not matter that much. Now that you are home, I believe you will meet someone, find a job, and begin your life. Try to focus on the future, not on the past.

 

I am happy you did not spend another three years in the US doing a postdoc. Whatever the daily struggles are of life back home, I am very happy to know that you are (a) near your family and have a cat and are (b) meeting men on a regular basis--and even one man you say you like. To be honest, since you returned home your posts also do sound happier on average. You don't sound as lonely any more, and I am thankful that you no longer seem to talk about killing yourself--and you seem to have hope that you will meet the right person. I am happy for you and cheering for you in your new life!

[LAYAAN]

I see what you are saying Marsh. Yes... I may find someone here. I'm really not sure if I will be happy in this kind of marriage system where you have to give up so much of your personal happiness.

[LAYAAN]

I am happy you did not spend another three years in the US doing a postdoc. Whatever the daily struggles are of life back home, I am very happy to know that you are (a) near your family and have a cat and are (b) meeting men on a regular basis--and even one man you say you like. To be honest, since you returned home your posts also do sound happier on average. You don't sound as lonely any more, and I am thankful that you no longer seem to talk about killing yourself--and you seem to have hope that you will meet the right person. I am happy for you and cheering for you in your new life!

Thank you. Sometimes I really wonder if doing a postdoc would have been so bad. I do know someone who did 2x2=4 year as a postdoc and is now an assistant prof. there. Well, but, I'm not so much into basic sciences, so doing a postdoc would really take me away from my dream job. I sincerely hope that moving here would be beneficial to my career as well.

 

I had to call my boss and talk to him a few times. He also said that I seem happier now compared to what I was last few years in the US.

[marshmlofluff]

I see what you are saying Marsh. Yes... I may find someone here. I'm really not sure if I will be happy in this kind of marriage system where you have to give up so much of your personal happiness.

 

Well, in the US system, you would probably have had to go through a couple of heartbreaks, be romantically and intimately involved with a guy for a couple of years before he proposed, and even after marrying you may not have felt secure in the marriage, because the focus is here so much on personal happiness that 50% of couples end up divorced in search of that "happiness."

 

So...no marriage system is perfect. But since you have to pick one of the two marriage systems, based on what I know of you, I think that your home's system is more in line with your values. And also that you can find a better guy than you would have here.

 

And in my opinion, yes, a postdoc would have been bad. It would have eaten two more precious years of your thirties with no long-term career benefit--and instead of 33 and unmarried you would have been 35 and unmarried. I'm glad you got out of it all, even if it is a little difficult to adjust to the challenges of life there. I think it was the right thing to do. And you do seem much happier, and more hopeful, which makes me really happy.

[annie24]

And in my opinion, yes, a postdoc would have been bad. It would have eaten two more precious years of your thirties with no long-term career benefit--and instead of 33 and unmarried you would have been 35 and unmarried. I'm glad you got out of it all, even if it is a little difficult to adjust to the challenges of life there. I think it was the right thing to do. And you do seem much happier, and more hopeful, which makes me really happy.

 

lol, that's me right now.

 

at least i'm a US citizen, so my staying in the US isn't tied to my job. i do wish i had a "real job" in some ways, just because the pay would be hire and I could live more comfortably. I'm living a little better, though not much better, than a grad student.

 

i do think going back to your home country was the right move.

 

and yes, still single here!!!!

[marshmlofluff]

lol, that's me right now.

 

Nah, hon. I think you've done a good thing--I think a postdoc (while not the ideal permanent job) is not going to really derail your life like it would have L's...one reason being that it doesn't seem to have totally held you back from getting out there, dating, and having meaningful relationships (I do call them meaningful, even if they don't end in marriage.) Another reason being the citizenship; I remember when you were looking for postdocs, it also seemed like you really had a broader life vision that the postdoc was a logical part of, even as a holding pattern...it wasn't a desperate measure to avoid being deported. For L. at best she would have met someone--and then...what? In the best case scenario, she'd be totally dependent on some dude she had met once or twice and who probably lived accross the country from her.

 

and yes, still single here!!!!

 

Meh--I actually really admire you. You are really upbeat and spunky and have an awesome sense of humor, even when you are in physical pain, or get dumped, or whatever. And I remember you really putting a lot of effort into health, fitness, and beauty too. I think pretty much you are everything any sane guy ought to want. So even if you are single, it's a matter of time before some awesome dude grabs you!

[marshmlofluff]

Btw L tell us about your cat! I know you always wanted one when you were here.

[annie24]

aw, thanks marsh, you are too sweet.

 

and yes, i want to see photos of kitty!

[LAYAAN]

Ladies... you can see a photo of my cat in my profile picture.

Nothing fancy, just a regular cat. She has a smaller body. My parents have adopted a stray cat. I sing to her and she still stays there... he he... only meows when she wants food. Loves my dad more than my mom or myself. I like having her around. She is a good cat.

[LAYAAN]

lol, that's me right now.

at least i'm a US citizen, so my staying in the US isn't tied to my job. i do wish i had a "real job" in some ways, just because the pay would be hire and I could live more comfortably. I'm living a little better, though not much better, than a grad student.

i do think going back to your home country was the right move.

and yes, still single here!!!!

 

Yes I agree with Marsh.

- You seem to have an upbeat personality than mine. I remember you wrote about enjoying your time outside the lab even during your PhD program. You enjoy dancing etc. I didn't enjoy my life during my PhD program. My PhD journey was like waiting in a dentist's chair praying for the drilling to be over. Whatever money I could save from my PhD stipend, I funneled it into paying for my pharmacy certifications, buying books, joining courses, traveling for courses, exams, etc. I did this all without getting into debt and as a result I didn't have enough left to have fun outside. The sucky part is that I don't even have a license yet. I lived in one of the expensive areas of the country and had to live like a church mouse to save some money. I hated it and hope that noone has to live like that.

 

- Also, if I remember it correctly, you graduated when you were 30 (I graduated when I was 32.75). A couple of years do make a significant difference in your ability to find a man when you are in your 30s. I guess, Marsh graduated when she was 27. That's even better.

 

- I'm not from basic sciences and I didn't see how a postdoc really would help me. My undergrad and my PhD project both were clinically oriented. I wanted it that way.

 

- What Marsh said is true- I was looking for a postdoc to stay in the country to take my boards. Then I realized that even that won't help my situation. Even after passing my boards, I will get a job in remote location only (again because I need a visa sponsor). So, my marriage problem still stays put. I didn't hear you complain about going for a postdoc (even though you may not like it). So, I guess you like it and will be able to build on that experience.

 

- I'm from a minority group in the US and would prefer to marry a man from my culture. I'm also not interested in dating anyone for more than 8-10 months without hearing the word "marriage". That's not the story with you. You can find a guy anywhere you go in the US. I can find a man only in certain locations like north CA, Seattle, Detroit, NY where there are majority of men from my culture. So, if I don't get a job in these places, I will be single longer and considering my age... probably forever.

 

You don't have any of these inner or outer constraints.

[marshmlofluff]

- Also, if I remember it correctly, you graduated when you were 30 (I graduated when I was 32.75). A couple of years do make a significant difference in your ability to find a man when you are in your 30s. I guess, Marsh graduated when she was 27. That's even better.

 

It was, although ultimately graduating in my 20s didn't really put me in a reasonable life position to meet someone any faster, since I spent 27-29 doing a postdoc and 30-32 teaching in the middle of nowhere and therefore unable to meet a suitable guy. I was 32.5 when I was not only finally done with that life, but had left all the wreckage of it far enough behind that I was free to really start looking seriously.

 

I'm so glad you have a cat!!!

[LAYAAN]

It was, although ultimately graduating in my 20s didn't really put me in a reasonable life position to meet someone any faster, since I spent 27-29 doing a postdoc and 30-32 teaching in the middle of nowhere and therefore unable to meet a suitable guy. I was 32.5 when I was not only finally done with that life, but had left all the wreckage of it far enough behind that I was free to really start looking seriously.

Interesting... I blamed my being at this point in my life on my joining a PhD so late and finishing it so late. I thought, if I had finished my education sooner, I would be in much better situation.

 

You may have taken some unfavorable detours in your career. Okay, but you had time on your side to bring your life back on favorable track (since you finished your education sooner). You got life experience and can guide others (like me). I don't have time on my side since I want to get married and settle down. And that is why I need to pay closer attention to the advice you shared because any more mistakes would mean no marriage and a miserable life.

[marshmlofluff]

You may have taken some unfavorable detours in your career. Okay, but you had time on your side to bring your life back on favorable track (since you finished your education sooner). You got life experience and can guide others (like me). I don't have time on my side since I want to get married and settle down. And that is why I need to pay closer attention to the advice you shared because any more mistakes would mean no marriage and a miserable life.

 

I did take many unfavorable detours, professionally and personally. When I had setbacks, I also did work very, very hard to correct course as fast as I could. I figured I couldn't get back the years I lost, but I could do my best to live the rest of them well, and not make the same mistakes again.

 

You have time and now you that you are done your PhD and home, you have the potential to make your life what you want. Use it as best you can!

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Marsh, this post is very encouraging.

I'm turning 34, starting age 35 in a month and I'm freaking out. I'm asking myself what did I do with my life? Get a degree that isn't much worth anyway. I can't believe it. I'm not married, no job, no nothing. I have nothing. Recently in an interview here, I was asked why is it that I was in the US for 8 years and don't have a green card yet? I answered the Q, came outside and sat down and thought "Why didn't you stay on to become a permanent resident? You left everything that you worked hard for with no possibility of returning. Who behaves that way?"

Why am I so stupid? I'm just really losing it today.

[LAYAAN]

met 1 man on the 21st

met a man for the 2nd time meeting (outside arranged marriage) on the 21st. Not positive about this.

met another man on the 22nd

[marshmlofluff]

Thank you Marsh, this post is very encouraging.

I'm turning 34, starting age 35 in a month and I'm freaking out. I'm asking myself what did I do with my life? Get a degree that isn't much worth anyway. I can't believe it. I'm not married, no job, no nothing. I have nothing.

 

You have eight years of experience living abroad, learning to be independent, and a degree. All of those are useful things and wonderful life experiences. If you saw another woman with those things, you would probably be impressed. So don't view yourself with different eyes.

 

It's not like you spent eight years gambling or doing drugs. That would be a waste (and even so, many people do that). You went to pursue an education, and you finished it, and you should be proud of that. Maybe a PhD isn't the most marketable degree in the world--maybe there aren't huge financial returns--but it wasn't a waste. About a job--of course you don't have one, since you barely arrived in the country a few months ago. I'll be very surprised if you don't have a job a year from now.

 

Recently in an interview here, I was asked why is it that I was in the US for 8 years and don't have a green card yet? I answered the Q, came outside and sat down and thought "Why didn't you stay on to become a permanent resident? You left everything that you worked hard for with no possibility of returning. Who behaves that way?"

Why am I so stupid? I'm just really losing it today.

 

The reason you didn't stay in the US was because there was no point in staying. Read about the "sunk cost" fallacy in economics. You spent time on a PhD, etc. Staying in the US longer and doing a postdoc would not have brought that time back. Suppose you stayed and took a postdoc. I think all that would have happened would have been that you spent *more* time in a lonely, unhappy, and depressed state (and unmarried, too.) You couldn't change the past. The only good choice you had was to make the best of the future. So you did what almost everyone in your life thought was the right thing and you found the courage to leave a situation that was not working for you. It was, I think, a good and courageous decision.

 

People's life priorities change. It's natural. In one's early 20s when entering a PhD program you can't see what will happen in ten years, and it's hard to imagine that one day the PhD won't matter any more and all you will want is a good husband. In your 20s, you made the best decision you could given how far you could see at the time. That's all anyone can do.

 

You are meeting a lot more men than you were in the US, and apparently they are not wasting your time and leaving you hanging. You are having job interviews, you even have a cat and it is a matter of time until you find both a husband and a job. I think your life is really getting back on track. You have the opportunity to have everything you want. Take it, and don't look back. Like I said before, you can't bring back the years you spent--all you can do is make sure your future is good.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you very much Marsh. Thank you for writing this.