Thoughts, ramblings

[penelope13]

Wish you all the best. I hope with having made a decision, you will find peace and inner calm.

[LAYAAN]

From the time I decided to relocate to my home country and wrote about that in my online profile, I suddenly lost at least 8 men in the US that expressed interest in my profile. They all communicated either by phone/email (in other words, they didn't just go silent on me after I accepted their interest) and when they learned about my plan, they decided it wasn't worth investing their time into someone who is returning home.

 

I said to them "While I'm here, I will be happy to meet with you."

Them "Sure... meeting is a good idea, but in this case what will it achieve? You are leaving no matter what. We can't give you a yes/no based on 1 meeting alone. We will have to meet 2-3 times and you won't be here for that. Its difficult to get to know someone for marriage decision from so far. And we want someone who wants to live with us in the US after marriage. You are not able to say that for sure until you meet your parents. So, we can't take this forward."

 

All the time that I was in the US, it was a dry spell. Now as I'm packing to leave, men are contacting me from the marriage site and leaving because I'm not going to be here (they are right... I just wonder why the bad timing now when there seems to be men interested in me here?).

 

It dawned on me that I can't stay in any country hoping to meet men and get married, because that might not happen ever. So, that should not be my primary reason to live anywhere. I can only increase my odds and place myself (like Marsh said) in a life situation where I am helping this to happen and reducing hindrances. Since I opened my mouth and shared my plans, all these 8 men are gone now. They won't be coming back. Even if they do agree to meet, who is to tell that there will be marriage with any of them? Then I will look back and wonder if it was worth spending 3 months here leaving my sick parents waiting for me, losing men and job opportunities back home. If my parents were not sick, I would have still stayed put here for the remaining 3 months to see if anything here would work.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Penny for your message and your best wishes. I truly appreciate all your support and guidance. I admit that I haven't always understood/followed your advice. But I really appreciate the efforts you put in.

Please take care and I wish you happiness and health!

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Marsh. You have always been a supporter of my returning to homeland. You have shared your reasons to support that as well.

Yes, I'm definitely not happy, but I'm hanging in there and trying to take one thing at a time for now.

First priority is to go back and check up on parents' health and take them to the doctor and get the treatment/surgery done.

[annie24]

Lol, that is life! When you are leaving or have a boyfriend, they all have a sudden interest. I support your decision to move he. I think it might be best for you. don't worry, there are more than 8 men in your home country who are single and looking. I am confident you will find happiness. Hugs

[marshmlofluff]

From the time I decided to relocate to my home country and wrote about that in my online profile, I suddenly lost at least 8 men in the US that expressed interest in my profile. They all communicated either by phone/email (in other words, they didn't just go silent on me after I accepted their interest) and when they learned about my plan, they decided it wasn't worth investing their time into someone who is returning home.

 

L.--it's easy for a man to rule you *out* if you are not going to live in the US. However that doesn't mean that if you had stayed in the US, he would have married you.

 

For me, if I started talking to a man and found out that he was planning to move, the interaction was over. That was easy. But that didn't mean that if the same man *didn't* move, I'd have married him. It just meant we kept talking/e-mailing. You already had a lot of talk/e-mail interactions like that, and due to immigration constraints, etc. they did not seem to be fruitful. Losing these flimsy online interactions with men who lived accross the country from you is not a loss...it seems to me that the odds that one of these would have ended in marriage were pretty low. That is exactly why I and many others supported your returning home.

 

I would say you didn't "lose" these men--because unless you had met them in person, things were really serious, and they were OK with your plan to return home after five years, I wouldn't say you ever "had" them to begin with. Maybe there was some weak potential, but there was nothing substantive enough that it was worth staying in this country (or any other) for.

 

So...move forward. Don't look back. Don't think twice about losing some flaky online interactions that ended. Think instead of all the possibilities in your home country you will gain, including men whom you can actually meet in person.

[annie24]

So very much agree. Relationships are hard enough with all that distance and uncertainty at the beginning. I think that now you are returning to your home country and you settle there, it will be easier to find someone who is on the same page as you. Before it kind of seemed like you had one foot in the US, one foot out, and I think I see why a man would feel uncomfortable with that. The last guy I dated (and I fell so hard for) did tell me he applied for a job in Europe but was unsure of his chances of getting it or when that would be. In hindsight, he was never fully in our relationship. and I should have taken his words on the first date as a big red flag not to get involved.

[LAYAAN]

After a year of confusion, indecisiveness, taking decision and changing it... I finally bought a ticket to go back home and the flight was cancelled. The specific company that I chose to fly with is now in the news as the pilots decided to go on strike a couple of days before my take off. What do I call this? The airline told me that they will refund me my money completely, but it is going to take a month. Now, I'm trying to see if I can buy another ticket and go home.

[LAYAAN]

I feel so utterly lonely and empty here... I can't describe it in words. I am dying to see my parents. No success, no money carries any meaning for me unless I have someone to share it with. I have no sense of belonging here.

 

I feel like I'm a failure for not being able to get married. Why me? Why am I left out? What is it that I lack that I don't know? Why can't I meet a normal man? Is my bar for normal too high? If I ask for

- kindness

- a decent job

- honest and transparent way of behavior

- that wants to marry me

- respect, trust, sharing and warmth in that relationship

Am I asking for too much? I sometimes feel like there is something obvious lacking in me that I don't see or I am destined to stay single or I have already met that man and let him go. I yearn for companionship and I dont' know what to do about this yearning.

 

I want to go back, stay closer to my parents and when both of them die... I'll die too. Now I understand why my mother kept saying "I decided to keep going because of you. I had no reason to live otherwise." I never understood that. I thought 'You can live for yourself. That should be your reason to live.' Life here has mostly hard work, feeling depressed, isolated, terribly lonely for me. I can't go on anymore feeling this way. There has to be a better way to live a life. I contemplated killing myself, but couldn't because my mom is still alive. I really really want to go see my parents. I dont care for anything else at this time. I want to have a sense of belonging, a sense of family. I can't go on here anymore. I feel very lonely. I can't carry on here.

[annie24]

Oh geez. I am sorry. I had British airways go on strike and they got me on another carriers flight the same day. I'm surprised they didn't offer you that option? Can you go to the airport and see what they say?

[LAYAAN]

I was originally scheduled to take a flight from here to NJ and from NJ to back home. I can't just show up at NJ airport. The airline makes decisions whether to give 1) full refund or 2) credit no third option to get on another carrier's flight. They called me ahead of time so I can't show up at NJ airport and push them to get me on another carrier's flight. I would rather sit here than get stranded at NJ. I'm trying to book another flight.

[annie24]

I see. What a pain. Where are you staying?

[penelope13]

Actually, if you insist that you need to be somewhere at a certain point, they will try to put you on another flight - they usually don't state that option in order to reduce their amount of hassle, since they figured if it was really important to you, you would make that clear. It happened to me that my transatlantic flight was cancelled, but I stayed at the airport till they found me a different connection (with another flight agency), because I insisted that I had an important meeting to go to that I in no way could miss. It wasn't the most convenient connection and I lost a full 24 hours extra hanging around different airports, but it was worth it.

[marshmlofluff]

Do you have to go to NJ? Can you just go to the airport where the flight originates, which is probably near where you live?

[marshmlofluff]

I feel like I'm a failure for not being able to get married. Why me? Why am I left out? What is it that I lack that I don't know? Why can't I meet a normal man? Is my bar for normal too high?

 

I will repeat (with some edits) what I said in an earlier post...

 

I think given your immigration constraints, job constraints, etc. it will be hard to meet someone who lives in the US, is from your country, meets your other various criteria (like diet), and wants to live in the US for five years before returning to your country. If you meet that man he will almost certainly live far away, which will pose obstacles to marriage.

 

Looking for a man from your home country will be easier if you are in your home country.

 

There at least you will be less lonely and not feel the constant guilt that you should be taking care of your parents, which I hope will also improve your mood and ability to search for partners.

[LAYAAN]

I see. What a pain. Where are you staying?

Currently, I'm staying at the same place where I stayed through my education on University campus.

[LAYAAN]

Do you have to go to NJ? Can you just go to the airport where the flight originates, which is probably near where you live?

My choices are limited as my visa has expired. I can't stop at London. I can stop at Germany, Turkey etc. I thought, instead, let me just get a straight flight from NJ to my home. NJ is really where the flight originates. But I'm trying to see what options I have now.

[LAYAAN]

I will repeat (with some edits) what I said in an earlier post...

Looking for a man from your home country will be easier if you are in your home country.

 

There at least you will be less lonely and not feel the constant guilt that you should be taking care of your parents, which I hope will also improve your mood and ability to search for partners.

Thank you Marsh.

[LAYAAN]

So, I was going to fly back to my country on 10th and 11th, that plan failed.

On 11th I got a phone call from a professor, who said that he would like to offer me the postdoc position they had interviewed me for. I am given (rather I've taken) 2 weeks to think over this. I really don't know what to think about this.

 

My initial reaction was... forget everything, I'm taking this position. I will get another visa, come back and stay, take my boards, look for men. This time around, since I won't be on student visa anymore, men will take me more seriously.

 

What am I going to tell my parents? What about my marriage? What about feeling lonely and wanting companionship and marriage? I stayed back for 1 year after graduation. Did anything move on marriage front? Nothing...

 

I would really like to take this position, but I also want to increase my chances of getting married. I feel that next 1 year, I should put myself in a situation where I'm able to get married. If I don't do that and find myself unmarried, it would eat me up inside that I didn't try my best to find a man. My mother's knees are swollen. She is having issues with her throat. Dad is awaiting knee replacement surgery. How do I even open my mouth and tell them that this is the 1st time in an entire year that I have a position at a public university in my field where I will be getting a visa.

[marshmlofluff]

So, I was going to fly back to my country on 10th and 11th, that plan failed.

On 11th I got a phone call from a professor, who said that he would like to offer me the postdoc position they had interviewed me for. I am given (rather I've taken) 2 weeks to think over this. I really don't know what to think about this.

 

L.--basically, postdocs are a holding pattern. I think if you take a postdoc, you will find yourself in exactly the same situation two years from now, because the underlying reasons you are unhappy here will not have changed.

 

The reason you are going home are long-term reasons, not short term reasons. You are lonely here, you have no family support here, you cannot support your family from here, under the best of circumstances it is difficult to meet men of your ethnicity in the US--and if you insist on men who plan on returning home in five years you have put yourself on a situation where there is almost nobody left. Those few men who will be left probably live halfway accross the country from you and it is impossible to get to know them. Even if you do meet someone, without any family here, and moving to some godforsaken place for a man you have met two or three times, you are putting yourself in a very risky situation. The men and situations you were talking about here didn't sound that great.

 

I don't see how doing a postdoc here would solve any of those problems--or be any different than doing a PhD here. You couldn't study for boards before, because you were worried about finding a man and you were lonely. I think that problem will still be there. You say men will take you seriously if you are on a work visa, but don't you still have visa restrictions even if you are on a J1 or H1B? And a postdoc salary is almost as low as a graduate stipend.

 

Ultimately, you want to go back to your home country anyway, and you are already one year post-PhD. I really just don't see the point in doing a postdoc here...at least in my field, a postdoc doesn't enhance your CV much unless you want to be a professor...it just makes you older and less marketable.

 

I guess in my mind, if you are doing something for six or seven years and it isn't working, you have to change what you are doing. It is not obvious to me how spending another 2-3 years in this country trying to meet someone is going to help you when you have already spent many years trying to meet someone. The way you are trying to meet people (relying fully on a matrimonial site and talking to people all over the country) has not been working. Since you can't change your way of meeting people, I think the best solution is to go to where your way of meeting people has a high probability of working out. Even if you had a permanent job, not a postdoc, I'd say the balance was still in favor of going home.

 

This is just my logical analysis of the situation. I might be misunderstanding the situation or not correctly considering your feelings, so please do not take these thoughts as anything more than some things to consider.

[annie24]

I agree with marsh. She said it way better than I could have said. I am doing a postdoc as well, mainly to buy myself a few more years while I figure out what I really want to do (and the other jobs I applied for fell through). I do agree that it's best to do one if you want to be an academic professor and I don't see how it will help you because it is a short-term contract again. I do agree with all of the concerns that marsh brought up - low salary, hard time meeting a man who wants exactly what you want, aging parents, visa, etc....

 

I mean, if you really really want to do a postdoc, that's a different matter but if your goal is to return to India, maybe it just makes more sense to do it sooner rather than later??

[marshmlofluff]

I am doing a postdoc as well, mainly to buy myself a few more years while I figure out what I really want to do (and the other jobs I applied for fell through). I do agree that it's best to do one if you want to be an academic professor and I don't see how it will help you because it is a short-term contract again.

 

Yup Annie--I did one too! (Hence my advice.) I promised myself I wouldn't do more than one. The universal advice I received from everyone was not to postdoc any longer than was essential in order to either figure out where I wanted to be permanently, or get there. I agree with that--it was in a lot of ways like doing a mini-PhD.

 

I will add that many postdocs are very unstable...grant funding can evaporate and you can find yourself immediately unemployed. In a lot of ways I found my postdoc more stressful than graduate school.

[LAYAAN]

I will be reaching my country by this weekend. Had to purchase another ticket with x2 regular price... but I need to get out. I need a break from all this.

[LAYAAN]

The paper that we submitted thrice... 1) April 2011, 2) Sept 2011, 3) May 2012 is rejected again with no possibility of resubmission. My boss tried to say "While you are here, look at the journals, and resubmit."

Me "I really would. I dont have any mental energy. I am trying to take some decisions and its necessary for me to see my family. The professor has given me 2 weeks. I can't spend another 2 weeks in this country. I want to see my family and then take the decision. I will deal with this paper either from home or after I come back. But for now, I need a break. My tickets are booked. I am leaving. "

[LAYAAN]

L.--basically, postdocs are a holding pattern. I think if you take a postdoc, you will find yourself in exactly the same situation two years from now, because the underlying reasons you are unhappy here will not have changed.

Yes... I agree.

 

The reason you are going home are long-term reasons, not short term reasons. You are lonely here, you have no family support here, you cannot support your family from here, under the best of circumstances it is difficult to meet men of your ethnicity in the US

yes, thats right.

 

and if you insist on men who plan on returning home in five years you have put yourself on a situation where there is almost nobody left. Those few men who will be left probably live halfway accross the country from you and it is impossible to get to know them. Even if you do meet someone, without any family here, and moving to some godforsaken place for a man you have met two or three times, you are putting yourself in a very risky situation. The men and situations you were talking about here didn't sound that great.

Even when I dont open my mouth about going back, men from the matrimonial site simply dont move forward. They leave people hanging. I just don't get it. Why express interest in someone if you have no intention to follow? These men are jugglers. I wonder if its me they are not serious about or they are not serious about marriage itself. I wonder if they do this to others as well. And mind you these are men age 38-39, where mostly men are looking to settle down. The guys age 40 & 41 are doing the same nonsense. They call me, talk to me, say how badly they want to get married and have a kid, then fizzle out, then contact me again. Guys and girls back home don't do this man... really. There is something that this country does to people. You are never satisfied. You are never happy with what you are getting. You are always on the hunt to find someone better and better in some narrow sense (because when you think you are upgrading, its not a gadget, its a human being with a different set of flaws, so you dont eliminate flaws entirely while you think you are getting an upgrade).

 

I don't see how doing a postdoc here would solve any of those problems--or be any different than doing a PhD here. You couldn't study for boards before, because you were worried about finding a man and you were lonely. I think that problem will still be there. You say men will take you seriously if you are on a work visa, but don't you still have visa restrictions even if you are on a J1 or H1B? And a postdoc salary is almost as low as a graduate stipend.

Yes, I'm thinking about this -

Loneliness - would probably increase, but this is what I'm thinking... I will be in a warm state down south where there are lot of men from my country in that state. In fact, one Indian man from the same University town has expressed interest in me on the matrimonial site. Once I get a visa, I have promised myself I will visit home country once every 6 months. Even if it is for a couple of weeks each time. That way I can continue to look at men back home and keep looking here as well.

Taking boards - I am going home now, once I get a visa, I am thinking of starting the position in say late Aug-early Sept. It will give me 3 months of stay with my parents. I will meet men back home as well. I will come back in much better mood, I feel. I would have gotten a break, I would have spoken with my parents face-to-face. I would have seen what life back home offers. Everytime I visited homeland/met my parents, my worry about them was relieved and I could focus much better for 6 more months.

Visa restrictions - Yes, there will always be that, but not as bad as not having a visa to freely travel back and forth. Salary will be a little better than student stipend. Not a whole lot better. I plan on staying away from dorms, garden, get a cat/dog, get a better car. I have already looked at things I need to do in addition to my postdoc work. Learn SAS, pass my boards, join online program in regulatory affairs. I will keep myself super busy.

 

Ultimately, you want to go back to your home country anyway,

I really dont want to. There is noone to look after my parents, they are acting stubborn. They can come here stay with me, but they dont want to. That is why I've no choice, but to go. But I really plan on sitting down and talking to them during this visit. If I marry someone tomorrow, the guy is back home, then he takes up a job here. What are my parents going to do? Keep me there with them? Then what is the problem if I come here and get married to a man here and stay here? What my parents' defense is this "You want to get married? Sure. Get married then. Find a man in the US and get married. At least do that." Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a man. That is my problem. And this time on, I'm not going to open my mouth and ask if the guy wants to go back anytime in future. I'll go wherever he goes. That's it.

 

and you are already one year post-PhD. I really just don't see the point in doing a postdoc here...at least in my field, a postdoc doesn't enhance your CV much unless you want to be a professor...it just makes you older and less marketable.

Yes, I agree with that. I'm only trying to buy myself time here. I can stay legally, work in an area that I'm excited to work on. Its not hardcore basic science department so I'm hoping that the load will not be as bad. I know something about the field. I'll not be starting afresh. They said that they will get me a visa. Once I'm through my boards, I will consider leaving.

 

I guess in my mind, if you are doing something for six or seven years and it isn't working, you have to change what you are doing. It is not obvious to me how spending another 2-3 years in this country trying to meet someone is going to help you when you have already spent many years trying to meet someone. The way you are trying to meet people (relying fully on a matrimonial site and talking to people all over the country) has not been working. Since you can't change your way of meeting people, I think the best solution is to go to where your way of meeting people has a high probability of working out. Even if you had a permanent job, not a postdoc, I'd say the balance was still in favor of going home.

This hit home for me. I have to agree with what you said. Yes, primarily I will still be relying completely on matrimonial site. So far, nothing has worked from that site. I closed matches out of frustration after waiting for a couple months and not hearing back from them even after giving them my phone no. If I take this position, I won't be in a big city. The big city is still 5 hours drive away. So, I dont' know what I can do to meet marriage-minded men. Yes... I don't know what to do about that part. What hit me hard was when you wrote "Even if you had a permanent job, I would still tell you to go home." So, its not about the position only. Its bigger than that.

 

This is just my logical analysis of the situation. I might be misunderstanding the situation or not correctly considering your feelings, so please do not take these thoughts as anything more than some things to consider.

You are right in your analysis and your thought process.

 

I agree with marsh. She said it way better than I could have said. I am doing a postdoc as well, mainly to buy myself a few more years while I figure out what I really want to do (and the other jobs I applied for fell through). I do agree that it's best to do one if you want to be an academic professor and I don't see how it will help you because it is a short-term contract again. I do agree with all of the concerns that marsh brought up - low salary, hard time meeting a man who wants exactly what you want, aging parents, visa, etc. I mean, if you really really want to do a postdoc, that's a different matter but if your goal is to return to India, maybe it just makes more sense to do it sooner rather than later??

Yes, exactly I am trying to buy myself more time too. I really dont want to go back to my homeland. I am almost forced by my circumstances because 1) my parents wont come here to stay with me and 2) I've failed to land a man here.