Thoughts, ramblings

[marshmlofluff]

Why can't I customize my choices to fit my needs?

 

I guess because people aren't made to custom order. The men you will likely meet are in their mid to late 30's, and their personalities and lives are already shaped.

 

If you want marriage with a man who doesn't want kids, you have a significantly better chance with an American man. But in that case, you will need to take the significant risk of investing time and emotions in a long-term relationship. You are not interested in doing that, and I think that is a perfectly reasonable choice and I am not questioning it...but once you have made the choice, there is no sense in resenting it. Most men in your marriage pool want kids; that is the nature of the culture; it is what it is.

 

You can't have everything; that is given. So decide what it is you want, and what is realistic.

 

I think you really have to be flexible, and not put yourself in the trap of telling yourself that you are not going to be happy unless you find a very, very specific thing--e.g. "I want a fast marriage with a man who lives in the US, but wants to return home, but doesn't want to return immediately but rather after a few years..." Honestly it will be very difficult to find someone who fits all of those criteria, especially since a lot of the criteria are self-contradictory--a man who wants a fast arranged marriage is a traditional man, who is probably going to want kids.

 

You seem to be stuck in the US, unhappy here but convinced that you will still be unhappy if you return home. Unfortunately, the longer you stay stuck in that limbo, the more opportunities you lose on both sides.

 

If you want to achieve something, decide what it is that you want--and then go after it wholeheartedly.

[LAYAAN]

Marsh... thank you so much! I feel like you really get me and can assess the situation very well.

[LAYAAN]

So basically I've been asking myself what is it that I truly want.

Marriage yes

That means I've to meet men that are also interested in getting married.

 

Child... not so much

Okay, but I've realized that most men that want marriage also want kids (yes even here). Those that don't want a kid are very slow to move on the marriage front. So, I've to decide... is my desire to have marriage strong or is my desire to not have a child strong? What can I give up?

 

okay, so marriage and a kid.

 

return back home so I can stay closer to parents and help out

Yes, this is important to me... especially because I'm the only child and there is noone else that will look after them. Men that are here are not so much interested in going back. They will seriously consider that idea when they marry and have kids here, then a lot of them go back to raise kids back home. And I'm okay with staying here for 5-7 more years, get work experience, save some money, etc. But I don't desire to stay here for the rest of my life. So, I'm not compatible with men that want to retire here and raise kids here. Most men that I met, haven't thought that far yet (and that is okay) because they don't have to. They have atleast 1 sibling there that is taking care of the parents and not significant property that would push them to return. Very few men I talked to had made up their mind in either direction.

[LAYAAN]

continuing from above...

 

What I want (spend a few years here, get work experience, and go back) is not rare, at all. I have seen many couples do that. When I was younger, I met a few men who asked me if I wanted to go back because they wanted to. Unfortunately, they are married now. But such men exist.

 

I forgot to mention about time in the above post.

I don't necessarily want a fast marriage. I want to interact and get to know someone for a few months (3-6 months) before I tie the knot. But this time is significantly shorter compared to western dating so I should not be going for men who want to date a couple of years before marrying. That makes me incompatible with most western men and that is why I've to consider men raised back home.

 

I want to marry someone that I can live comfortably with on a daily basis. By living "comfortably with" I mean, without arguing, fighting, having him put me down repeatedly over my habits. I'm not looking for "oh I'm so in love I'm flying in the air" feeling. I'm looking for someone I get along with for the most part (and vice-versa) in everyday life. So, there is peace and calmness in the house.

Some of the qualities that I'm not willing to compromise on - (these go both ways)

- really wants to be with me (takes interest in my life)

- kindness (warmth, caring nature)

- good at handling money (or is willing to learn to be good at it)

- medically healthy

- we have common values and life goals (so that noone feels like they are living someone else's life or they are compromising to be in a relationship)

 

still struggling to let go - education, salary

 

prefer to have but have let go - physical chemistry, looks, height, hair, skin color, a little overweight or has tummy (but will not tolerate any more than that), geographical location, specific professions, age group (32-40)

[LAYAAN]

I don't think all men want children. In particular, you might be able to find a divorced man who already has kids and doesn't want more. Would you mind being a step mother?

step mother to a child who would live with my new family? ... no. If the kid is old enough and living on his/her own (age 21+) then sure. But then a man who has a kid age 21+ would be what? say at least 45? That's outside my specified age range.

So, the question I'm asking myself is "how badly do you not want a child?" If your desire to not have a child stronger than marriage to a decent man (who also wants a kid)? I'm open to having a child when I think about it this way.

[LAYAAN]

I'm really not asking for much. I re-read my list today. It should be possible for me to marry a decent man. Really... I'm not that old and I'm willing (and have) let go of so many specifics. I feel like I do have a shot at being with a decent man.

[LAYAAN]

I'm sorry I didn't say thanks to you for your message. I was reading my journal today and realized that.

Thank you for your message. I appreciate it.

[marshmlofluff]

And I'm okay with staying here for 5-7 more years, get work experience, save some money, etc. But I don't desire to stay here for the rest of my life. So, I'm not compatible with men that want to retire here and raise kids here. Most men that I met, haven't thought that far yet (and that is okay) because they don't have to. They have atleast 1 sibling there that is taking care of the parents and not significant property that would push them to return. Very few men I talked to had made up their mind in either direction.

 

L--If you are looking for a man here but you aren't willing to settle here and don't have the immigration status to easily stay here, that makes your search fairly difficult, as you've put yourself in a really tight box. Yes, there is probably a small subset of unmarried men who want to stay in the US a few years and go home--but that is a small subset of men.

 

I think you might need to assume that the default is that men in the US will want to stay in the US and men in India will want to stay in India. So here is something to consider: Given that you ultimately want to return to India anyway, is wanting to stay in the US 5-7 years worth knocking out of your pool all the men who live in India, and all the men who want to remain in the US or are uncertain about their future plans? Because that is probably most of your marriage pool.

 

Also, be sure that your matrimonial profile accurately describes your future goals. If someone isn't sure where he wants to live or wants to live here forever, and that is a dealbreaker for you, you probably should not be investing the time and emotional energy in talking to him or meeting him. Simultaneously, you *want* to attract men who have the same goals. The more honest you are in your profile the higher the chances of finding a man who matches you.

 

PS--By the way, every Western guy I ever dated either began discussing marriage or ended the relationship before six months. Men who are commitment-minded don't want to waste time either.

 

That said, I am not suggesting you go that road. There are a lot of cultural differences and if you are not familiar with Western-style dating you can miss a lot of red flags, and it can become very hard to separate good men from the bad ones. Also, Western society (on average) has a very different mindset regarding marriage, and I think for someone raised in Indian culture it can be a difficult view to adapt to. Someone told me that relationships in India are like federal jobs: They are stable, they can be boring, and they are reliable. A relationship in the US on the other hand tends to be like an industry job. It is exciting, it is challenging, it can be exhilarating--but at the slightest hint that the company is in trouble you can get a pink slip instantly for any reason, or for no reason at all. Neither approach to relating is more or less valid--but for someone who is used to the stability of the Indian system, Western dating with all of its breakups because the person "loves you but is not in love with you" or whatever can be both incomprehensible and also pretty traumatic. Just my $0.02. Avoiding all of that is a perfectly legitimate life decision.

[LAYAAN]

I can't thank you enough for writing the 2nd paragraph. The way you have put it, it makes so much sense.

 

Yes, you are right. I'm losing men in both pools because I want to go back. So, I need to ask myself 'what can I live with?' 'Is staying in the US for next 5-7 years more important to me?'... then I need to look for a man who wants to retire here. 'Is living closer to my parents and helping them as much as possible in their old age and watching over my property more important for me in the long run?' ... then I need to return ASAP, so I can actually find someone decent and be able to get married. If I keep singing the same song... I want to go back, I want to go back in near future... then I will really end up with noone. You are very right.

[LAYAAN]

Also, something I observed and experienced here is that 1) I'm unable to look in the pool of Western men (for the reasons I've discussed before) and 2) I'm not able to get a man from my caste/community here.

There are basically 3 areas (and its not limited to that) that I have to compromise on if I have to marry a man from my cultural background here -

1) age group: Men that I'm getting here are mostly age 40+

2) caste/community: since I'm raised in that culture and have studied and worked with men, I know what kinda (in terms of community) men I am most comfortable with... I am comfortable with men only from certain communities. Believe it or not... the difference is great between southern and northern communities and this is not love marriage, so I don't know much about these men and I'm adding cultural differences to that if I go outside my community to find a man here. And that is exactly what I'll have to do because there are few men from my country here.

3) 1st marriage/2nd marriage: Since divorce in men from my country that are here is rampant these days, its difficult for me to get a man that has never been married. I did give fair chance to divorcees. My experience wasn't pleasant. These men had so much baggage... most talked ill of their ex, some admitted (later on) that they were not ready to move on yet (even if they were on the matrimonial site), some admitted that they were "once bitten, twice shy", some wanted to talk to me "as a person only and nothing more" and they were only looking for affection and acceptance, but were not ready to commit yet. I really didn't want to go forward with any of them.

 

Really... as I'm writing posts and reading responses... its becoming more and more clear to me that I really need to hurry up and leave before its too late. I need to accept something.... either what I'm getting here or what I'm getting back home. I need to accept something and get on with my life instead of being indecisive like I've been so far. I'm really putting my marriage prospects in risk by not taking a rapid decision and moving in that direction and the consequences are going to be severe, I'm afraid.

[marshmlofluff]

I need to accept something.... either what I'm getting here or what I'm getting back home. I need to accept something and get on with my life instead of being indecisive like I've been so far.

 

Yes L...I think this is the issue, exactly. Whatever specific compromises you are willing to make are up to you. But you have to decide what they are, and then you need to move forward and do what you have to do to meet someone. It's like with that pharmacy exam; one can take it, or not take it. But to spend time in the US not studying and not taking the exam because you aren't sure whether you really want to take it--that is not productive. Procrastination affects everyone, but the consequences of procrastination are generally that you lose opportunities. Sometimes one wonders and wonders what the right decision is, when the fact is *any* decision is better than not making one.

 

Before you can find what you are looking for, you have to know for sure what it is that you want.

 

I read somewhere that the main problem in meeting a partner is not finding love so much as removing whatever (internal and external) barriers we have erected to finding it. Before you can meet a good man, it is helpful to put yourself in a life circumstance that maximizes your chance of meeting men. In my case, before I could even be in a position to meet a reasonable man, I needed to give up the career I had worked toward 14 years so that I could live near a city. I did that. It was painful (especially because there was no guarantee of a good man, or for that matter any man, waiting for me on the other side of it) but I did it. In your case, I think the barriers have to do with what I described.

 

Usually, nothing in life is free. If you want something, you need to give up something else. And--as they say, happiness is less about getting what you want, and more about wanting what you get.

 

Just my thoughts. Hope they are of some use to you.

 

And...as a very wise person said to me a few weeks ago, "Draupadi asked God for the perfect man--and so she got five husbands. Since in real life nobody can have five husbands, anyone you find is going to be imperfect. So open your heart and accept them."

[LAYAAN]

So... I accidentally found out that the guy back home has moved on and gotten engaged to a girl there. My heart sank into my stomach... After crying buckets of tears, I realized, that I was the one responsible for all the mess in my life. He was begging me to come back soon and we could try to work things out, but I couldn't make up my mind. So, he decided to move on with someone else and get on with his life. My parents were saddened by the news. My dad said to me "Do you remember, I told you several times, come back and if you want to say no to him, you say no to him. But come back and meet him and say no to him. You delayed your coming back as a result he lost faith in you and he decided to marry someone else. This will continue to happen. You will continue to lose men and job opportunities here the longer you delay your return. I'd still tell you the same thing. Come back before all opportunities here are lost. If you want to get married, you have to be here to meet men in person, talk to them, feel them out and then only you can take the decision. You won't be able to take the decision to marry someone here from sitting there. These are matters of life, you need enough information and you can't get that from sitting there. I am not saying that had you met this man, you would have married him, but what I'm saying is that you would have had a chance to find out if it made sense to move forward with him or not. You were concerned that you would not be able to go back to the US, but you will have to leave that behind you. Finish your stay, come back and start a new life here. Let this be the last man you lost. Make a promise to yourself that you will not lose another man without giving him a sincere shot."

 

I have cried bitterly yesterday. I have no hope right now. I feel like my life is in the dumps and I've no words to express my grief. Noone but myself is responsible for the mess I've created of my life. Where do I go from here? What do I do? I feel like killing myself.

[LAYAAN]

I keep asking myself if I could have done anything differently... if I had gone back even 2 months ago, my life could have been different... I would have gotten married to this guy... Well... really 2 months ago, I was not where I'm today. I tried very hard to get a job here. I couldn't find anything that would get me a job with a visa. I talked to men, put myself out there, but nothing worked. Now, I'm more ready to go back than I was before. If I had gotten up and left, I would have asked myself constantly if I was leaving anything better behind. That would have ate me up. Marriage, in addition to my feeling this way, would have been very stressful. In a way, its good that the guy back home moved on... I'm sure that he will be happy in that marriage. The question I'm asking myself is... how many decent men am I going to lose before I finally get the lesson?

[annie24]

My dad said to me "Do you remember, I told you several times, come back and if you want to say no to him, you say no to him. But come back and meet him and say no to him.

 

I am confused though. with your visa status, can you keep coming back into the US back and forth like that? and that is a lot of money to spent just to fly to say no to a man. I guess he meant, get to know him first and if you still don't like him, don't marry him?

 

i worry about you L. I know we are both having a hard time navigating the dating world and i know for you it is even more complex because of visa issues and international marriages and all that. you can't have it all - meaning, you can't live in the US without having pressure from your parents to move to india. you can't move to india and worry about getting a job back in the us. or you can, but it is just a lot of stress. I would spend some time with Marsh's suggestions and really think about WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED. where do you want to live? what is the kind of life you want? i sometimes get the feeling with all these pressures, you're running yourself in circles.

 

and remember - since you really don't want babies, i don't see the need for some artificial time limits! you are still young too. the world is actually overpopulated, you don't have to worry that you are losing that one last guy because there are plenty more of them out there!

[marshmlofluff]

L.--now that he is engaged it may seem like a loss, but don't forget: you did not want to marry this guy. Every post you made about him indicated how unhappy you were about the prospect of marrying him, and how you felt he wasn't a fit and you fought all the time. So I don't think that you have lost anything big.

 

While I think you have lost nothing in the case of this particular man, I do think you *may* lose out if you cannot make up your mind, one way or another, about your future and (as Annie says) what it is you want and what you need.

 

I think that given your immigration constraints, job constraints, etc. it will be hard to meet someone who wants to live in the US for five years and then return to India. That is just too specific a criterion.

 

Sometimes in life you have to choose. Do you want to further your career a little more by spending five years in the US, or do you want to be near your family and have a shot at marrying a reasonable man?

 

I had to make a similar decision about two years ago. I had two options: (1) stay in a very rural area in my dream job indefinitely, and resign myself to either being single forever or marrying someone really incompatible or (2) sell my house, change careers, and move to a city, near my family, with reasonable romantic prospects.

 

I chose the second. I wanted to be happily married to a good man and have a family--and I wanted to be near my family. I wanted that more than anything else. Once I decided that, the path forward was clear. Yes, it was very hard to leave the job and sell my beautiful house and accept that the 14 years I had invested in becoming a professor were sunk. But I never forgot why I was doing it. Once I did and I let go, I have never looked back.

 

Once you decide what you want, you will know what to do.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Annie and Marsh for your replies.

 

Marsh, thank you for sharing your situation. I think you chose wisely. I think you took the right decision.

I really want to give myself an opportunity to be married to a decent man. I also need (yes, I need) to meet my parents since they are not doing well healthwise. I really don't care about my career at this point. If I move back, I will find some job somewhere. I don't see myself staying in this country another minute feeling empty, lost, and scared anymore. I would rather go back and be with my parents.

 

This man called me early March and sang songs and professed his undying love towards me and said that he is not like a bee that moves from flower-to-flower. Exactly a month from that date, I see that he is engaged, the wedding date is set. The girl looks like she is in her mid 20s. He is 35.

 

I talked to my mom and dad. They both said the same thing "Why are you surprised? He told you that he wants to get married ASAP. You kept him hanging. He decided to move on. This is not USA. You know how rapidly things move here in marriage market. You saw how quickly your cousin got married after she saw the guy. People at this age are not looking to play the field, they are serious about getting married, and settling down, and starting a family. If you can't make up your mind either way, you WILL continue to lose men and will end up alone. Look at the faults, but really ask yourself if his faults make him a bad, mean, sneaky, dangerous person to be with. If not, learn to live with it. You are not going to find anyone perfect. The odds in the US are already against you. Come back instead, the odds here are for you. If you continue to stay there, you may not find anyone at all."

[marshmlofluff]

I really want to give myself an opportunity to be married to a decent man. I also need (yes, I need) to meet my parents since they are not doing well healthwise. I really don't care about my career at this point. If I move back, I will find some job somewhere. I don't see myself staying in this country another minute feeling empty, lost, and scared anymore. I would rather go back and be with my parents.

 

I think that is a wise analysis. I don't think that losing this particular man is a big loss, or that you would have been happy with him. He is not even in a part of India where you could have seen your parents frequently.

 

The bigger problem is that you want to be in a life situation where you maximize your probability of meeting someone else that you *do* like, in the future. And when you *do* meet him you do not want to let him go due to fear, indecisiveness, or procrastination.

 

If this guy getting engaged helps you to make a decision about your life path, then that is a good thing. You have not lost very much since you and him were not compatible. I believe you will find someone whom you are reasonably happy with if you take the steps toward doing that.

[marshmlofluff]

The bigger problem is that you want to be in a life situation where you maximize your probability of meeting someone else that you *do* like, in the future. And when you *do* meet him you do not want to let him go due to fear, indecisiveness, or procrastination.

 

Sorry I realized I worded the above unclearly. What I meant to say was this:

 

The more important issue is putting yourself in a life situation where you maximize your probability of meeting someone else that you *do* like, in the future. And when you *do* meet him, you should be careful not to let him go due to fear, indecisiveness, or procrastination.

[LAYAAN]

I am confused though. with your visa status, can you keep coming back into the US back and forth like that? and that is a lot of money to spent just to fly to say no to a man. I guess he meant, get to know him first and if you still don't like him, don't marry him?

No, what my father was saying was for me to pack up and move back to my country and forget about returning to the US. He said "If you like the guy, you marry him. If you don't, stay back in your home country, don't worry about going back to the US."

 

i worry about you L. I know we are both having a hard time navigating the dating world and i know for you it is even more complex because of visa issues and international marriages and all that. you can't have it all - meaning, you can't live in the US without having pressure from your parents to move to india. you can't move to india and worry about getting a job back in the us. or you can, but it is just a lot of stress. I would spend some time with Marsh's suggestions and really think about WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED. where do you want to live? what is the kind of life you want? i sometimes get the feeling with all these pressures, you're running yourself in circles.

 

and remember - since you really don't want babies, i don't see the need for some artificial time limits! you are still young too. the world is actually overpopulated, you don't have to worry that you are losing that one last guy because there are plenty more of them out there!

Thank you for your kind words Annie. I appreciate that very much. I do feel like I've been chasing my tail and going in circles.

My priority at this time is marriage to a decent man. I'm not saying that it WILL happen for sure, but I need to put myself in a place (not just geographically, but also emotionally) where I am able to meet marriage-minded men, where I am stable emotionally, when I do meet that kinda man, I am able to move forward without doubts and fears. Since my parents are struggling with their health issues, and I haven't personally seen them, its important for me to meet with them, see what needs to be done to restore their health and talk to them about where they want to stay. Irrespective of whether I find someone back home or not, I hope to find some job there. I feel that my life here is stuck. I'm not getting a job, I'm not able to get a man, my stay here is officially ending.

 

I really want to live in the US, have a decent job.

But at this time, I want to give myself a shot at marrying a decent man. If I continue to stay in the US without marriage I will be miserable. So far, I have been trying to find a job that would give me a work visa, but that has not happened. If I don't get a job with a visa, I can't visit my family back home and then come back here. Also, if I don't get a job with a visa, I can't marry a guy from my culture here either (because most of them go back to our country to have a wedding). I need to meet my parents, assess their health situation, really sit down with them and have a heart-to-heart conversation about where they want to live. I also want to see to it that if I'm not there to look after them, they stay in some good old-age home or something where they are well taken care of. I want to ask them what they want to do about the property matters, court cases, etc. That has to be solved before they can move from their home (if at all). So, what I'm saying is, even if I meet a man of my dreams here, I won't be able to marry him unless my parents are truly on board with the idea of letting me live away from my home country. If they are not, they will constantly nag me, I will be torn in two worlds, and my marriage will fall apart. We need to come to some peaceful solution before I can take any long-term decision: career or marriage.

[LAYAAN]

I am in process of wrapping up and hope to be gone before the end of this week... back to my homeland.

[annie24]

I wish you the best in your journey. Keep us updated.

[Ellie2006]

Good luck, L! Safe travels!

[mya]

Have a safe trip! Good luck and keep us posted!

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Annie, Ellie, Mya... I appreciate your support and best wishes through all these years. I would not have survived here all these years without this. I wish I had found this site when I first came here.

 

Annie, Ellie and Mya... I wish you all the best too! I would love to stay in touch. I wish you happiness and health! Please take care you all!

[marshmlofluff]

So happy to hear that you are going home! I know it feels bittersweet, but I think in the long-term you will be happy and I really do think your life will be better there. Keep us posted.