LAYAAN Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hm. my take is that I don't like to be pressured into major decisions, especially when there is no real reason to. when someone makes you make a decision on the spot, and no other options, my answer is to say no and walk away. i don't just mean with romantic relationships but in general. like when a salesperson is trying very hard to sell you something and they say 'we will give it to you at this price today, but if you come back tomorrow, it won't be here anymore.' i don't like that. it ticks me off and i walk away. especially when they don't even give you time to sit over lunch and think about it. I'm also like you. Normally when people give me an ultimatum, I tend to say "goodbye". When I had arguments with mom over this guy, she said the same thing "Just go, tell him no. Why do you want to keep him waiting? Why do you want to see yourself unhappy either?" I can't give him a no because I dont want to. I'm tired and I want to settle. If not him, who else? I have been on the matrimonial website for God knows how long. He never gave me an ultimatum. He only said "Give me a yes or no because I have other people that are interested in me. I really want to get married and settle down. So, if you say no, I can move on to someone." look - about his position/cv/etc... i see your point, but i see his point also. if he has a job, maybe his phd is not necessary. i know many people who are "ABD" (completed their graduate work except their dissertation) and still have good careers. i don't know if he needs to officially finish to get a job or what. Yes, when and if marriage takes place... I have to go into it thinking that he won't finish. So... that's okay too. I can't continue asking him anything or that marriage will blowup in my face. I think it's more than reasonable to want to meet your future husband, at least once, before committing. if he isn't down for that, i see that as a red flag, personally. i mean, just to meet. just to see how you get along in person! L, this is THE BIGGEST decision of your life, bigger than even the choice to get a PhD. you see women who rush into marriage like Kim Kardashian and a few months later get divorced. After the pretty flowers and ceremony, it will be just you and him behind closed doors. i don't think you should be made to feel bad about asking questions - you should know your future husband before marriage!! Yes. I've bought myself some time for few more months until I wrap everything up, then will go meet him. My mom said to me "It would be sad to talk to him from now till you come back and then if you don't like him... to say no to him, but its better to separate now than into marriage. I would not force you to walk down the isle if your heart says no." My question to you - if you marry him and he can't find a job for whatever reason, will you be able to support your family for a while? and if he can't find a job in his field, maybe he can find a job doing whatever in some store? having a phd is not a gaurantee of anything, to be honest. i know PhDs who have been out of work for a year because of the state of the economy and the competition for jobs. i don't know how it is in india. I will have to. Knowing how little money he makes and that he wants kids, my ass will be going to work and working hard for that matter to bring home some money so I can start saving for my kids. Sure, I know that having PhD is not a guarantee for anything, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't finish it. He has already submitted 1st draft of his thesis, but wont' work on it anymore. What do you say to that? And he talks about it with me. 2 of his professors have been asking him "When are you going to finish?" But he says "I'm not in right frame of mind to finish this." Ultimately just have to suck it up after marriage and do what I can to provide for my family. Thank God and my support system here.. you, Penny, Marsh that I finished mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshmlofluff Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Yes, when and if marriage takes place... I have to go into it thinking that he won't finish. So... that's okay too. I can't continue asking him anything or that marriage will blowup in my face. Perhaps you can encourage him to finish, taking care not to be critical. Yes, that is a hard thing. I'm not saying I know how to do it. Of course it is easier to give advice than to put it in practice. Yes. I've bought myself some time for few more months until I wrap everything up, then will go meet him. My mom said to me "It would be sad to talk to him from now till you come back and then if you don't like him... to say no to him, but its better to separate now than into marriage. I would not force you to walk down the isle if your heart says no." That sounds reasonable. Just finish what you need to finish here, and then go home and meet him. I will have to. Knowing how little money he makes and that he wants kids, my ass will be going to work and working hard for that matter to bring home some money so I can start saving for my kids. Sure, I know that having PhD is not a guarantee for anything, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't finish it. He has already submitted 1st draft of his thesis, but wont' work on it anymore. What do you say to that? And he talks about it with me. 2 of his professors have been asking him "When are you going to finish?" But he says "I'm not in right frame of mind to finish this." Ultimately just have to suck it up after marriage and do what I can to provide for my family. Tell him that before you feel comfortable having a family, he needs to be in a stable job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 link removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Hi Tinu, How are you doing? Haven't heard from you in a while. I hope things are going well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Hi Mya, Thank you for asking. How are you? I'm not really doing well. A lot happened during month of November. I'm still here, haven't gone back home yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 what's going on?? care to share??? hope you are doing ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Hi Annie, How are you dear? Where are you these days? How is your new job going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 what's going on?? care to share??? hope you are doing ok. Yes, I'm safe and sound. The guy back home is putting huge amount of pressure to pack my bags and come back as he is in a mad rush to get married. We don't talk on weekdays. He is back home (12.5 hours ahead of me), so if we are lucky we talk once on weekends. I definitely have gotten to know him more now than when I gave him a yes. I really thought that he was okay with my taking boards before I went back, but he is in a rush to get married. I have been trying to work with my mom, but it is simply impossible. I tried calling mom sometime in the evening, sometime in the morning, afternoon, but her mood is consistently crappy and she yells and screams at me and throws into a fit. Recently I was interviewed at a CRO (in a pharma hub city) and got the job offer. When I called my parents to inform that I was very happy to take up the job, they freaked out, screaming, yelling, crying, finally hung up the phone. I called my recruiter and turned the offer down. I can't live and work here if my parents are going to act this way. I don't know why they act like this. I tried to talk to some elderly people here to get an idea of what must be happening to my folks back home. They said "Its old age. They are panicking, they can't hold up any longer (or so they think). Even if you don't stay in their town, they would feel better knowing that you are somewhere in the same country and can come to visit them whenever." I wish I had a different set of parents, but wishing it doesn't help as I know that I'm not going to get another set. When I called home later, to inform my parents that I had turned the job offer down and they should be now happy about it. My mom said "I don't want to stand in your way of happiness." Now she says that after screwing things up in my life? She started crying hysterically and said "I'm going to commit suicide. I can't tolerate this anymore. I am working hard at home, I'm trying to take care of legal property matter, your dad can't even walk to the restroom, I've to take care of him, you won't get married to the only guy who said yes to you. What do you want me to do? I simply can't handle this anymore." I realized that this wasn't the time to talk so I simply said "I am coming back. Dont' worry." She started again "You lie to me. You have been lying to me all these years." I wish my parents were normal, but they are not. Even if I get a job here, I need my parents to support themselves, so I can work here without any worries, but that will not happen. I wasn't even sure that I would complete my education due to constant nagging and need for attention from my parents. My PhD advisor went crazy due to this. Working is a whole new game. Noone will tolerate this nonsense there. Every couple months, my parents will say "Oh, we need to go get this surgery, that surgery. Oh, we have this legal issue, we need your help, come back. You were never there for any of our surgeries." Then they go beg to their relatives to help them and their relatives go "You have a child, don't you? Ask your child to take care of you. We are not responsible to provide for you. Ask your child to come back and take care of you. All these years we supported because your daughter was going through school, now we wont' support you." So, I asked my parents to come here and stay with me and they said "No. That is a foreign land for us. We can't drive around, we can't do anything there. We will die sitting there, feeling miserable. Now you have turned into a person we no longer recognize or are comfortable with, so we are not coming there." My parents wont come here, they wont' stop asking for help from others, others wont stop blaming me. So, considering this it looks like I better pack my bags and go back. It hurts and I'm not happy to take this decision, but I wont' be happy here listening to them complain everyday. I might as well go back and try to find a job near them. The guy isn't willing to wait either. I will lose a decent guy (not saying he is perfect or I'm in love with him. If my parents were supportive of me, I wouldn't leave the job, I would give the guy a no, but that is not my situation.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie2006 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 L, sorry for all of your troubles. Truly am. I am sorry that you had to turn down that job offer. I do kind of understand what your parents must be going through ... I'm from a similar cultural background and understand this mindset where the parents expect without a shadow of a doubt that the children will support them in their old age. It's not just the cultural influence but also the fact that your parents are confronting medical problems that's probably forcing them to act in this manner. Even though we can "rationalize" their behavior, it must really be difficult for you to be at the receiving end of all of this. You say this guy is a decent guy. Maybe he will help in taking the burden off you in dealing with your parents. I dont know what to say but ... really, my heart goes out to you and I hope all will turn out for the best once you return home. hugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 big hugs L!!! I wish I could help you somehow. I just want to keep sending big hugs to you. maybe this guy can help?? this job you just turned down, was it in india? i'm sorry about your parents sweetie. i am fine, am on vacation right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 big hugs L!!! I wish I could help you somehow. I just want to keep sending big hugs to you. maybe this guy can help?? this job you just turned down, was it in india? i'm sorry about your parents sweetie. i am fine, am on vacation right now. Thank you dear. No... I know that noone can help me. The situation is complex. I'm glad that you are getting some vacation time and hope that you are enjoying your time. No... the job that I turned down was in the US. When I called home to tell my parents that I would love to take up this offer, my mom said "Yesterday I was contemplating taking my life. I'm tired of this. Everyone wants me to work for them. Noone cares about me." on and on she went.... The guy ... when I informed him that I want to take up the job, initially he was supportive, then he said "My mother has high blood pressure and diabetes, if anything happened to her after hearing this news, who would be responsible for that?" The arguments between him and me and him and my parents have escalated. Dad needs a knee surgery, but mom won't give me a tentative month when we can go for his surgery because she wants me there in my country all the time. Read if you care for the details - the status that I'm currently on... if I leave the country, I'm considered unemployed and I won't be able to come back in after 3 months. I need to apply for a fresh visa and the chances of rejection are high and then there is another process that takes 2-3 months until I would get clearance to come back here. I can't go there and find out that my dad can't go through the surgery now because I would be wasting time being unemployed and I get only 3 months total of unemployment time on my current status or else I lose my status. She said "I'm not going to move on your timeline. I will not give you a tentative month. The doctor wants your dad to go for his teeth cleaning appointment first, but he won't budge." I got furious "So, you want me to drop everything, come back for someone who wont' even get his teeth cleaned so he can go get his knee surgery done? I can only take the horse to the water. I'm leaving everything that I worked hard to achieve for a man who needs to be begged to pay attention to basic stuff in life? How logical is that? And my coming back and marrying this man will not help you because he lives far away from your place. He can't leave his job and come to take care of you. I can't leave him alone every so often after marriage. I won't be able to leave my job and ask for leave every so often. So how is marrying him going to solve anything?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freiabereinsam Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Hi Tinu, I've been a lurker... Wondering what's going on with you? Any updates? Are you marrying that guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I was just thinking the same thing. I would love to hear an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Hello Annie and freiabereinsam, how are you? I didn't write an update because I didn't really have an update. I am still away from home (you know what I mean). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Past few months, I've been trying tirelessly to find a job with visa support. I even got interviews, but nothing ended up in success. I've been wanting badly to come here and write. Just didn't know what to write. Things are really not going well. My stay here is ending soon officially. I'm feeling very discouraged with the current situation of job as well as men. I applied to so many different types of positions... pharmacy tech, pharmacy tech instructor, postdoc, research assistant, research coordinator... nothing has worked so far. The only jobs I got were the 2 entry-level positions in clinical research and they told me that they were not going to provide me any visa support. That means once my current status runs out, I lose the job. Even if I extend my current status, people in the field told me not to accept those offers since they are not giving me visa support and I won't be able to go back home to visit my family. I've been facing even more roadblocks in my search of a suitable man here. I haven't found a job with a visa support yet and when I shared this with some of the men I've been talking to, they got concerned and I'm sure it has turned them off. "If you can't find a job today while you have a valid status, what's going to happen if we marry you and bring you here on a dependent visa? What is the chance that you will be able to find a job here then?" I really have no desire to stay here unless I am married to someone. Life here has gotten too depressing for me. I'm so down on energy levels that I have no courage to face day-to-day tasks. I've been applying for pharmacy positions and things have not worked out because each state has different rules and regulations in terms of licenses and I don't know how many such licenses I'm going to spend money on collecting? I really think that at this age, if I don't hurry up and take some hard decisions I will end up alone. I went to see my counselor and he asked me to think over some questions - - Are you willing to go through struggles to stay in the country knowing that it will delay your marriage by another 2-3 years (if at all there are any decent men from my ethnic background interested in me after I cross 35)? - If everything works out and you do get a pharmacy license and a job, are you willing to stay here as a single woman and work? - What is your topmost priority at this time? marriage to a decent man irrespective of where he is located, getting a job around his place and domestic stability or are you still willing to chase after unattainable men here given your age, your job situation, and your visa status? I really really desire stability and predictability. If I'm married to someone here then I don't mind going through hassles to get this license and that license, but I just do not have an ounce of energy left in me to push through all the troubles to stay here and try to look for men here and get turned down because then by that age I'm too old and they go back home and get younger women while I'm working in some remote area that I dont' want to work in, some job that I don't care to work in. That still would not make me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Hugs. I was thinking about you. With your degree, can you get a suitable job in your home country in your field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 How are you Annie? Thank you for your message. Yes, if I go back now, I will be able to get something in my home country. The pay will not be as much, but there are other advantages such as no visa issues, more no. of men, ability to visit my parents, ability to stay in my parents' house and save on rent, food, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I think maybe consider going back home, but get a small apartment for yourself in the city. You will be much happier. Go to a city with a large number of single, professional men. You know I had to look for a job for a long time before I got one. It's not easy these days and your visa issue doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Thank you Annie. I'm definitely considering going back. Yes, I will have to move to a different city (from my parents' place) where there are plenty of jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshmlofluff Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 - What is your topmost priority at this time? marriage to a decent man irrespective of where he is located, getting a job around his place and domestic stability or are you still willing to chase after unattainable men here given your age, your job situation, and your visa status? Good to hear from you L. I think that the counselor laid it out nicely. Every single decision you make in life involves some compromises. So it's best just to accept that and come to peace with it. Sometimes if you try too hard to have it all, you end up with nothing. At some point, you have to decide what truly matters the most to you--and then you have to drop the things that don't matter as much, whether that means living in a certain country or whatever. Figure out the minimum list of things that you really can't live without, and do what it takes to get those things. Simultaneously, drop the things you can live without--i.e., moderate your expectations so that they are realistic. I will add that you only really see a man a couple of hours a day and on weekends. So the rest of your life is important, too. If you aren't happy in the US now, it is unlikely that you will be much happier married to a man you don't know well, in a job you don't like, and living in some place you don't want to live. So that's worth a thought, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Good to hear from you L. I think that the counselor laid it out nicely. Every single decision you make in life involves some compromises. So it's best just to accept that and come to peace with it. Sometimes if you try too hard to have it all, you end up with nothing. Hello Marsh, thank you for your message. How are you? Yes. I agree. My problem is that I'm trying to have it all and that is causing the frustration, exhaustion, and depression. I'm not able to understand what can I give up? What can I live without? But since you have put this nicely... I'll try to brainstorm and may even write my thoughts about it in my journal. Thank you for the last line especially. I worry that is where I will end up. At some point, you have to decide what truly matters the most to you--and then you have to drop the things that don't matter as much, whether that means living in a certain country or whatever. Figure out the minimum list of things that you really can't live without, and do what it takes to get those things. Simultaneously, drop the things you can live without--i.e., moderate your expectations so that they are realistic. yes... thank you again for this. I will add that you only really see a man a couple of hours a day and on weekends. So the rest of your life is important, too. If you aren't happy in the US now, it is unlikely that you will be much happier married to a man you don't know well, in a job you don't like, and living in some place you don't want to live. So that's worth a thought, too. Thank you so much for raising this point. I often forget about this. I want to share something on the same topic. - I talked to a woman. She is divorced. She candidly shared her story with me "I came to the US after marriage, on a dependent visa. I couldn't work because that is not allowed. I couldn't study because that was too costly. I was working a decent job back home. I was busy and happy with my life there. I left that to come here, sit home doing nothing. I was married to a man I didn't know much about. Things didn't work in our marriage. Now, I've been away from home, jobless and haven't kept my skills updated. I got divorced while I was a dependent, now I'm a student and trying to hang on here. Many many times I ask myself - why did I leave what I had there in India to come to this place and basically get nothing from my life in the US? no husband, no child, no job, no education... why?" - I talked to a man. He said "I could go to the US. My company said that they will file for my permanent residency. But I declined. I didn't want to get stuck in this process for years and you can't change jobs and you can't learn something new. Your wife can't do anything as a dependent on you. I really didn't want that. I want to work in a certain field, I want to grow there. I want to reach to top. I have that flexibility and freedom back in India. I would not lose that for any amount of money." - I talked to a man for marriage reasons. He opened up and said "Its tough to get a decent girl in first place. Add to it issues like visa restrictions. I have been trying to persuade some women from India to come here... they refused. They said that they were happy with their jobs and life there, they make decent money there, they have freedom there. Why would they give up all that to marry me and come to a foreign land and basically sit home and do nothing or do some small jobs here there to keep themselves occupied? That is not a career. " I myself have been thinking of saying no to a man who told me "I'm here on a work visa. My company has filed for my residency which is going to take another 10 years for me to get. After that, wait for another 5+years for citizenship. So, I will have to retire here. If you marry me, you will have to relocate and come to where I'm and I can't move because my residency is pending. So whatever job you can get around here, you will have to take that. It may not be what you want, but so you can do something instead of just sitting home." I am thankful that after talking to a few men openly, I had a rude awakening. I thought... "oh I will be living in the US and my career will fly here." Not true. It depends on your 1) visa status, 2) your husband's nature, 3) your husband's (your as well) geographical location (unless he is willing and can move to where its suitable for you both) As mentioned above, to keep the family intact, I'll have to take whatever I can get in these places. What career are we talking about then? A job would be the right term to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 it is really difficult with visas. i've spoken to numerous friends about this process. you really are stuck. as my godfather says, "you can't afford to (w)itch and you can't afford to quit." (think of another word instead of witch, lol) i agree with thinking about what will make you - YOU - happiest. I do think if you are truly happy with your job and life, live in a big city, it's only a matter of time before you meet someone. whether that is in india or the us. or canada, or anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Last week twice I went to help a friend out. It was mostly babysitting work. She has a daughter age 3.5. I went with the intention to help my friend and to see if I felt maternal around kids. I was concerned about how I would be able to look after her daughter. I'm not maternal. Yes... that's confirmed. Kids really are a lot of work. Even after I babysat for 3 days, I didn't feel like I want to have a child. May be its too soon to want that kinda revelation... but really I still feel nothing. Now, I have high respect for working moms and much more respect for single and working moms. I have been saying that I want to go back, get married and settle down. It inherently involves having a child (at least back home). I really am concerned about how am I going to handle a child? People tell me "Oh... its different when its your own. Don't worry about it. You will start feeling maternal towards your own." What if I don't and I already have a kid? Why does a husband have to come with a kid? Why can't I customize my choices to fit my needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAYAAN Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 it is really difficult with visas. i've spoken to numerous friends about this process. you really are stuck. as my godfather says, "you can't afford to (w)itch and you can't afford to quit." (think of another word instead of witch, lol) I agree with thinking about what will make you - YOU - happiest. I do think if you are truly happy with your job and life, live in a big city, it's only a matter of time before you meet someone. whether that is in india or the us. or canada, or anywhere else. Yes, thats right. Visas restrict your life and your choices. I know that I'm not happy here. I'm not sure that I'll be happy back home either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I don't think all men want children. In particular, you might be able to find a divorced man who already has kids and doesn't want more. Would you mind being a step mother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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