Thoughts, ramblings

[penelope13]

L, there is so much pent up frustration and anger inside you that is triggered by the smallest misstep that none of these encounters end on a positive note or give you energy to deal with the rest of your life.

 

As to going out for food, if I am the one who is more restricted, I would do a search which kind of restaurants offer enough choices and give the guy a suggestion of 3 places that would be ok for me to go. Being vegetarian could mean many different things to different people. I would not expect another person to be able to know all the nuances of my food preferences after talking a few times.

[LAYAAN]

Penny, your suggestion about restaurants is fantastic. Don't know why I never thought about it, but I have noted it for future use.

 

Please don't misunderstand... my frustration is not with food. Alright, the place wasn't where I could eat... fine. My problem is more with the attitude he gave me. That is what bothered me the most. It started with food and mean remarks continued for the rest of the date. I can understand the difference between a mean sarcastic remark and genuine concern especially when in person you can read the body language. I really think it was unnecessary.

 

I've been on dates where men have sent back regular coke and asked to get diet coke instead, sent back white rice and asked for brown rice. I also have been in a situation where this man wanted a particular kind of dessert and he was given something else. The restaurant was very busy and people were waiting outside. He still sent it back and said "No, I won't eat this. I asked for xxx." I've taken my date to a seafood restaurant because that is where he wanted to go. Ofcourse vegetarian options there were very limited. I knew what I was getting and didn't think about it for a second nor did I say anything to him about it. I hope you see what I'm saying.

 

Do you still think I'm overreacting? I really think that I'm a reasonable person and I don't fuss about small details. I let that go and try to focus on the big picture.

[annie24]

I think with your dietary restrictions, yes, you should have mentioned this before. When he said 'you are a picky eater' did you tell him you are a vegetarian and have an intolerance to some foods? That's actually quite common nowadays.

 

I think some men might view how a woman eats and think she is like that in all aspects? ie, a picky eater will be difficult to live with and a difficult woman to please... just a guess.

 

I would also say if you go to mexico for 3 weeks, you can go to the grocery store and fix your food. there are also many many vegetarian options in mexico - beans, salsa, rice, tortillas, peppers, etc....

[penelope13]

When someone is carrying a lot of anger with them that they are not dealing with in a proper setting, this anger will be released in all sorts of totally unrelated situations and incidences. They will never feel that the anger is coming from within them, but always find something to get angry about. The intensity of that anger is often disproportioned to the situation at hand.

 

If you read through your own journal here and count how many days you are angry and frustrated about something you should see a pattern.

 

You may be a very sweet and reasonable person, yet there are many unresolved issues inside of you. You never take the time/opportunity to work through them, but only exacerbate the emotional "back up" by continuing to go on dates that are not very promising and that rob you of very much needed energy to focus on your studies, which again feeds your frustration and anger.

[LAYAAN]

....but only exacerbate the emotional "back up" by continuing to go on dates that are not very promising and that rob you of very much needed energy to focus on your studies, which again feeds your frustration and anger.

Yes, this I understand. This I agree with.

How does one work through their anger and frustration? (this is a serious Q). Thanks

[LAYAAN]

I would also say if you go to mexico for 3 weeks, you can go to the grocery store and fix your food. there are also many many vegetarian options in mexico - beans, salsa, rice, tortillas, peppers, etc....

Yes, that's right... I just didn't think a person wouldn't know that. I guess sometimes we have to spell it out...

[LAYAAN]

When someone is carrying a lot of anger with them that they are not dealing with in a proper setting, this anger will be released in all sorts of totally unrelated situations and incidences. They will never feel that the anger is coming from within them, but always find something to get angry about. The intensity of that anger is often disproportioned to the situation at hand.

 

If you read through your own journal here and count how many days you are angry and frustrated about something you should see a pattern.

So you think this was unrelated situation? I'm sorry... I don't think so. Well... 1) I didn't ask him out. He asked me out. 2) I didn't ask him to buy me food. He chose to. 3) I did not complain about food verbally or non-verbally. 4) He almost baited me with a really unnecessary Q, passed mean comments. That put me in a defensive situation. Previously, I used to not take the bait and simply keep quiet. I realized that men took my quietness as my weakness and kept passing unnecessary sarcastic remarks. That is when I decided that I won't take these comments sitting down.

 

Penny... this man just didn't stop with this. He kept saying that there is nothing where I currently live. That its all ranch. He sarcastically said "oh... is there a hospital there? Do patients come to the hospital?" What? who says such things especially to their date? Isn't that putting someone down? How long am I expected to listen to this? and why should I listen to this quietly? Someone who puts me down like this is not needed in my life. That is when I had to talk.

[annie24]

Penny... this man just didn't stop with this. He kept saying that there is nothing where I currently live. That its all ranch. He sarcastically said "oh... is there a hospital there? Do patients come to the hospital?" What? who says such things especially to their date? Isn't that putting someone down? How long am I expected to listen to this? and why should I listen to this quietly? Someone who puts me down like this is not needed in my life. That is when I had to talk.

 

I don't necessarily think that's a 'put down.' I don't know, I wasn't there. It sounds more like putting down your city, not you? I think that the proper comeback is pointing out the positives - ie, there is a shopping mall within a few miles, or the homes are large and inexpensive, or there are beautiful trails and fields to walk in, etc.... and of course, the obvious, since you graduated and are looking to get married, you are open to relocation!!

[penelope13]

Ok, I'll try to spell it out. You are angry and frustrated because for 10years you have been in the arranged marriage market and have not found anyone suitable. For some reason you are very afraid of facing life by yourself and believe that the only way to escape your fears is by marrying someone. The repeated experiences over the years have made you disappointed, lose faith, increased your fears and anxieties. Yet you continue to expose yourself to the same situations again and again. Although you realize very soon if some guy is not right you continue to talk to him and to interact, even meet with him, because your fear that 'this could be your last chance' is overriding all red flags. Thus while you interact with a particular guy and you realize that he is not right, your frustration increases and you react to his missteps with all the frustration of all the accumulated experiences before, but you continue your interaction, and everything he says and does (regardless if rightfully so or not) enrages you. By now, I assume that even right at the beginning when you talk/see a guy the very first time you already don't believe deep inside that this will finally be the one and your whole body/mind is waiting for him to do/say the wrong thing and when he does your mind goes 'aha, I was right'. Maybe by now it also gives you some kind of satisfaction (although I doubt you'll admit to it) to see your own disbelief confirmed (all typical reactions/feelings for depression, insecurity, low self esteem).

 

There is no need to try to convince me that you are entitled to be angry with this particular guy. What you should be thinking about and try to understand/justify is why you didn't end your interaction with him as soon as you realized he was not good enough for you.

 

Stop being so passive about this: if someone asks you out, you are not forced to go along - it's a decision that YOU made to accept the invitation. If someone says mean remarks to me, I have the choice, power, and responsibility not to continue to expose myself to this kind of behavior.

 

You want a man so badly, because you hope that this person magically will take on the responsibility for your emotional well being, will be there to pick you up when you are down. That's all fine to want. However you first have to be able to deliver all those things for yourself. A partner should be just an addition to your life and should enrich your life, not be the one responsible to provide emotional stability and happiness to you.

 

You are the one to provide emotional stability and happiness to yourself. If you can do that, then you are ready for a partner and a relationship.

 

You ask how you can let the anger and frustration go. The first thing you have to do is to get out of the situation that increases and adds to these feelings. You can't do that while you are fueling the fire. Then you have to take a hard and long look at yourself and own up to what you contributed to the situation. You can't control other people's behavior, only your own. as long as you are a contributing factor, focusing on the missteps of others is doing yourself a disservice and just prolonging the suffering.

 

You have to start admitting to yourself that your marriage wish is only a wish to escape the hardship that you are facing with your education and your studies, the goal that you really want. You have to admit that you are your own worst enemy that instead of doing everything to preserve your energy for this goal you are wasting it somewhere else.

 

You may not believe me (I am sure because me and others have been trying to say this for a long time), but people can pick up on negativity, passive aggressive emotions, anger, depression in someone else more readily than you believe and people often react to those negative feelings by also displaying negative emotions and behaviors.

 

Once you get rid of that you'd be surprised how things would change when it comes to finding a partner. When you really approach a new possible candidate as if he was the first man ever that you considered for a relationship. Firstly you would not waste precious time with the wrong person, and you wouldn't take it so much to heart if someone didn't turn out to be right, but you would just move on to the next opportunity. Instead of interpreting everything in a negative light, you may see things from a different perspective and would recognize possibilities where at the moment you perceive obstacles.

 

And if you think it's easy for me to talk or I can't imagine what it's like: like you I am in my mid thirties (I may even be older than you) and am single again. Not because he didn't want me anymore - to the contrary - or because I didn't love him, but because he couldn't emotionally provide what I need/deserve due to his depression and negativity. I ended the relationship, although I don't have a bigger wish than settling down and starting a family.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Penny. I appreciate your patience in spelling it out for me. I have been trying to take an honest look at myself and asking myself what I can do to make myself better and no I'm not talking just about marriage here.

 

In fact, I was going to write about this. But I was talking to a friend and she was saying about how badly she wants marriage and how these men are turning her down and how angry she is and I was scared for a moment. It dawned on me that I was talking to my mirror image. I sound just like her when I talk about this. I told her that she needs to be happy with her life before she can attract the right man, blah, blah. Now if I can take my own advice...

 

Its amazing (at least for me) how correctly you have pointed out some of my own behavior even though I haven't talked to you in person.

Yes, I agree. This is true.

 

 

Wow... spot on... please tell me more. I didn't know I was doing this. I really didn't, but now when you read it... its like "yes... this is very true." This is absolutely correct. I can't even count on my fingers those times when I was really enthusiastic about meeting someone. It was like I was anticipating failure. Really... why did I bother to meet?

 

correct... and the answer to this is I'm taking decisions based on fear of being alone and just wanting to marry whoever and not paying attention to the quality.

[LAYAAN]

Stop being so passive about this: if someone asks you out, you are not forced to go along - it's a decision that YOU made to accept the invitation. If someone says mean remarks to me, I have the choice, power, and responsibility not to continue to expose myself to this kind of behavior.

If it was in my power to not show up, I really would do that. In this man's case, his parents were putting huge pressure on my mom and later started emailing and calling me. I really had a doubt in my mind before I went there to see him. What bothers me is that if he was just honest with his parents all this would stop, but he was not honest and as a result I had to suffer. He had decided in his mind even before meeting me in person that he was going to turn me down. His actions revealed that. So my sincere Q is "If you were not sure about meeting me, why did you let your parents put pressure on me? why couldn't you just tell your parents that you don't want to meet me?" Because you didn't tell your parents that you really didn't like me all that much, they continued to put pressure on me. I tried to hold my ground and ask him to come to see me instead, the guy wouldn't budge. His parents took his side. To end the drama I finally decided to go. I knew that that was the only solution to end the drama.

 

Hope this helps a little bit in understanding where I'm coming from.

 

Let me also share something with you.

A similar situation happened less than a month ago. have been talking to a man, his dad started calling my mom, putting pressure on her

"tell your daughter to go see my son on East coast. he is coming back home for a while. we need to finalize his marriage."

My mom started calling me and putting pressure on me to go visit him. This guy didn't say a word about the possibility of meeting. I decided to play dumb until he opened his mouth. I told my mom calmly

"Mom, who needs to take a decision? who has women lined up? me or him? so whose responsibility is it to rule out the possibility of marriage with me? mine or his? so who needs to open their mouth and ask?"

While there were only 3 weeks left for him to go back home, he opened his mouth and asked "can you come?" are you kidding me? now I start scrambling for a decent ticket? were you sleeping all this time? you finalized your ticket way before this. You knew exactly when you were going back and now you open your mouth and ask me at the last minute if I want to come visit you? You see what kinda games these men play? This is his way of proving to his parents "Oh yes, I asked her for a meeting, she said no."

I said "I really want to meet you, but because there are only a couple of weeks left till you go back, its tough for me to get a ticket for decent price. You know I don't have a good job. I only volunteer. So I don't have money. If you can send me a ticket, I will be happy to come or if you want, you can change your flight and take a flight from here instead. I will be happy to meet you here."

The guy goes "oh... I can't find a ticket in reasonable price and because my tickets are confirmed, I can't change those tickets either."

 

Whenever I have tried to stand up for myself in a dignified way the guys have simply turned me down stating that I think a little too highly of myself. So the question is ... what do you do? stoop down and get turned down or demand respect and definitely get turned down... so keep looking for a guy who treats you with respect (which is very rare anyway).

 

Its a strange market, Penny (I'm choosing not to use certain words that would reveal my identity, but you know what I'm referring to). Mostly women in this specific market don't have much choice. It really is male-dominated market. They call shots. You either follow or stay single. In my case both are painful.

[penelope13]

Why are you angry with him for a behavior that you display yourself: not having the courage to stand up to your respective parents? He probably feels as powerless as you to tell his parents 'no, I won't do this, I don't want this person, it won't change if I meet him/her'.

 

No wonder these dates turn out so badly if both individuals are there just in order to appease the parents.

[penelope13]

You bother to meet:

a) you are driven by fear

b) because you don't have the courage to break with the expectations of your parents and you haven't emotionally separated yourself enough from them to make your own decisions

c) you are currently (for a long time already) experiencing a severe depression.

 

One of the effects of depression is that it takes the joy out of everything in life, drains the rainbow of its colors, food doesn't taste as nice, everything is a chore, you are severely tired and exhausted all the time - i.e. life feels anything but exciting.

 

Anger however, makes your pulse faster, your heart beat stronger, it energizes you - i.e. it gives you all of a sudden a 'real feeling' and such 'makes you feel alive'. This will make you feel physically/physiologically better as long as the anger lasts. Thus I can understand why you are subconsciously continuing to put yourself into situations that will make you angry, because at least you know you are not 'emotionally dead inside'.

[LAYAAN]

Why are you angry with him for a behavior that you display yourself: not having the courage to stand up to your respective parents? He probably feels as powerless as you to tell his parents 'no, I won't do this, I don't want this person, it won't change if I meet him/her'.

 

No wonder these dates turn out so badly if both individuals are there just in order to appease the parents.

 

As I have mentioned before, men call shots here. I told my mom. She understood. She agreed, but we couldn't do anything because his parents started putting pressure on my mom. When she didn't yield, they started emailing and calling me. Remember what I told you before... to save myself from getting a bad name I had to conform. My mom knew very well that I wasn't interested. Both of us anticipated rejection, but just to keep his parents' quiet, I finally decided to go.

 

The reason why I'm angry with him is that he really is in a position to tell his parents that he doesn't like me. He is a man. He can do that. Whereas if I said no to meeting him, my mom would understand, but his parents would start bad-mouthing me in that system of marriage. He could stop all that by simply telling his parents that he didn't want to meet me. Noone would have to go through this pain then.

 

I'm not making this up. I've seen cases where my father's friend's daughter had gotten a bad rap in that system. The problem is that normally in this system, you search within a very small pool of applicants (same language, same caste etc.). So, people know each other or get to know each other. That's why we keep a civil behavior. By the way... remember the Chicago guy, my mom told me that she saw his profile in a local market (you know what I mean by that). She knew instantly that it was him. All details matched.

 

I talked to my mom about this man recently and I asked her if she could call his parents and tell them how he behaved. She said that she wouldn't do that because she is afraid of getting a bad name for herself and myself as well.

[annie24]

Maybe this is not the right way to find a match, if there is so much parental pressure that you cannot be true to yourself? I agree with Penny - it's no wonder all these dates turn out badly!

[LAYAAN]

called mom today. She needs to get the cataract surgery done. She was asking me if I can give her a date by which I can come... I told her "I can't come because I'm trying to talk to my boss and get work papers done. Well... first of all this is not in his hands. He needs to talk to someone, they need to talk to lawyers, and so on. No matter how fast I want things to move, I have no control over this process. So, you need to understand that I can't give you a date."

So, naturally she was disappointed. She wanted me to tell her I will come in a month, hang in there. I can't tell her that.

Honestly... I'm in short of words right now. Everytime I want my life to go forward, something back home has to go wrong. When I was taking qualifiers my parents had surgeries scheduled. I couldn't go then. My current boss is a decent man and honestly in this economy, I'm blessed to have even a tiny job so life keeps moving even if at slow pace, but I can't tell my boss everytime "Oh... my dad is having a surgery, I need to go. my mom needs me I need to go." This is madness. I will lose the only job I have and I will also lose my reputation. "don't hire her, she is always going on leave for family-related matters." So what do I do? My mom says she can ask her relatives to help her for a while. I really do want to go, but once I go, there is no possibility of my coming back unless my work papers are done. Why do things have to be this way?

It also makes me question, if this is how the situation back home is always going to be, every time "I have this and that surgery, I want you here." ... is it even advisable to get a job here? Because every year practically there is going to be something or the other. I remember last time I went to visit parents which was 5 years back, my boss was very concerned. He wasn't sure that I would come back and he is right at his place. He has to get the work done. My current boss wants to get the system streamlined, so he can show the companies that he can get the work done and he can attract more work... that is perfectly understandable. I can't do anything, but to pray to God and ask for him to help my parents.

[annie24]

that's something to think about- as your parents get older, they will just have more health problems. I guess it depends on if you want to be there or not. right now, with your current visa situation, you obviously can't just pop and and out of the us.

[LAYAAN]

yes, that's right annie.

[LAYAAN]

I will be turning 33 soon and its hitting me hard to know that I'm not where I wanted to be in life by this time. I've lost sleep because of this. I am back on my antidepressant pill. Don't know how long I'm going to have to take that, but I need it for now at least. Talked to mom. She is in process of finalizing her date of surgery.

I want to be there for my mom's surgery and I'm not there. I have to tell myself each time to snap out of thoughts and self pity and refocus on task at hand. Its tough to trust God right now.

 

Something that I've learned about myself is if I want to get anywhere in my studies for the exam, I need to get out of my house and find a place where there are other bunch of people studying. So, I just went to the library yesterday. It definitely helps to be on university campus. People around you are studying. There is always someone taking exams, lights are on in the middle of night... I can't imagine moving off campus and still being able to push myself to finish studying. I need this study environment around me to be able to get through my studies. I'm actively looking for and applying for jobs. I hope something works out.

[annie24]

yes, it is hard for me to study when i am at home. going to the library helps me as well, or being in my office quietly. basically, you have to find what works for you and go with it.

[penelope13]

Just humor me: how do you define "adult life"?

[LAYAAN]

Penny, what are you asking? I dont get it.

[penelope13]

I see you have changed your post, so I can't quote you anymore. But you said something about wanting to get married in the hopes of starting an adult life. I am curious to understand what you consider adult life. It can mean different things for different people

[LAYAAN]

oh okay....

this is the reason why i deleted the part because I realized that getting into marriage may not equal starting adult life for me unless I do it for right reasons.

[penelope13]

did you get my PM?