Thoughts, ramblings

[LAYAAN]

Hey Annie, what kind of work do you want to see yourself do? I would definitely like to know your thoughts on that since you have been through PhD as well. Thanks.

[marshmlofluff]

I might have confused you because of my not-so-good English. Negotiation, in that case, will not be over moving to the US. I can negotiate only about taking a couple of weeks away from the guy and coming to the US to write my boards. Its very clear that if I marry someone from India, I stay with him in India. There is no negotiation of moving to the US.

 

L., I'm not sure I understand...if you are in India and settled in India, what is the benefit of taking US pharmacy boards? (I don't mean this to sound like I am saying that you shouldn't take the boards, I am just not clear how pharmacy programs work, and trying to understand.)

 

It may not be unreasonable that a man would ask you that, since I don't understand either.

[LAYAAN]

L., I'm not sure I understand...if you are in India and settled in India, what is the benefit of taking US pharmacy boards? (I don't mean this to sound like I am saying that you shouldn't take the boards, I am just not clear how pharmacy programs work, and trying to understand.)

It may not be unreasonable that a man would ask you that, since I don't understand either.

Sure, this is a reasonable Q.

There is no satisfactory answer to this than "I've completed 2 exams already, why not take the 3rd one and just complete the process?"

[penelope13]

I agree with marshmlofluff: it doesn't seem to make any sense to think once you are married in India and settled there to go back to the US 'just to complete the process'.

 

I would have thought once you are married and living in India, it wouldn't matter to have a degree in the US that you won't use.

 

I think this really speaks to your own confusion on not knowing/admitting what you really want. I believe that you want to have your degrees and to be independent. But for some as yet undefined/ undisclosed reason you also think you have to get married at the same time. While both things are entirely possible at the same time, the methods you chose to pursue one versus the other seems to contradict a solution to reach both goals one day.

[LAYAAN]

I really need to ask a counselor this Q.

Why do I attract poor quality men? Why do I attract men that treat me poorly?

June and July met really bad apples. My problem is not the dry spell. I would rather sit home than meet yet another low quality man.

Out of nowhere a man texts me at 10 in the night.

"How are you?"

I couldn't recognize the number and I normally dont' talk to men at that time.

Next morning I text back asking who he was, he says he is xxx which doesn't sound familiar so I ask for more explanation. Turns out this guy got in touch with me on a matrimonial site, we talked for some time and he simply vanished around December 2010. Now he has popped back on and says "sorry I assumed you would remember me" Why? What did you give me to remember you?

My mom says I need to give people benefit of doubt. In this day n age when you can text, call, email, there is no excuse to not stay in touch. You clearly had my phone number. You want to vanish, then go and stay gone. Why bother coming back?

 

Last time I posted a thread about something similar, many posters here told me "you attract such men because you let them fool you over n over. Don't take them back. They won't be able to pull this trick on you anymore."

[LAYAAN]

random thought....

I'm thankful that I can eat food and digest it. Yes, I take my health for granted, but I should not, I'm thankful for God to protect my life so far.

 

I was watching on TV that there is famine in Somalia. Breaks my heart to see those pictures. Its a matter of life and death for some people in some part of this world while I'm sitting in my room unable to fall asleep because I'm worried about my singlehood... how strange is that. We all have our own worries, big or small, and that is our world. How different human life is on the same Planet, in the same city, in the same neighborhood... I find that strange and fascinating.

[annie24]

Those sound like good goals. Except one concern I have is that teaching, clinical research and pharmacy are 3 distinct jobs, very different. Although the PhD might be necessary for any of them, they are 3 very different paths, so it still seems (as the other women here stated) and your goals seem a bit confused. I read somewhere (and I think that this is true) is that the people who are happiest in life have backup plans that take them to the same destination as their original goal. For example, if someone's goal is to be a doctor, and they don't get into medical school the first time, they might work for a few years and reapply to medical school. Versus if they don't get into medical school, they go off and try to become a police officer. Now, if your general goal is 'helping people' that is fine - a cop and a doctor can all help people. But don't give up on your dreams.

[annie24]

I have had many many men do this to me through the years - they contact me out of thin air and act like we just talked yesterday. There is no sense in getting upset, your reaction was correct (who are you???) Just let them go.

 

Something else to think about - I notice that many celebrities (Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian) wait until their 30s to get married. They are in no hurry. They are having fun, dating lots of men, doing their thing with their TV shows. Not saying that we should use these women as examples for all aspects of our lives, but they are clearly fun, they know that they are 'hot commodities' and are not going to settle for the first yokel who crosses their paths. You see how Britney Spears went and married the first 2 guys she came accross (she should have stuck with JT!!) and now she has 2 kids with Kevin Federline who is - let's face it - no prize and has 6 kids.

[marshmlofluff]

I really need to ask a counselor this Q.

Why do I attract poor quality men? Why do I attract men that treat me poorly?

 

I'm no counselor, but generally this happens because one does not think highly of herself, or believe she is lovable.

[marshmlofluff]

Thought you would be interested in this thread...it's true, also--in my area most men list "undecided/open."

 

 

[annie24]

If you are not being treated with the love and respect you deserve, check your PRICE TAG, perhaps you have marked yourself down. It's you who tell people what you are worth by what you accept. Get off the SALE RACK and get yourself behind the glass case where they keep the VALUABLES. Bottom line: VALUE yourself more. Re-post if you like! You might help someone get off the CLEARANCE RACK. ♥

 

Saw this on facebook and thought of you.

[LAYAAN]

I'm no counselor, but generally this happens because one does not think highly of herself, or believe she is lovable.

yes... that holds true for me.

[LAYAAN]

Saw this on facebook and thought of you.

wow... thats powerful. Thanks for sharing.

[LAYAAN]

"If you are not being treated with the love and respect you deserve, check your PRICE TAG, perhaps you have marked yourself down. It's you who tell people what you are worth by what you accept. Get off the SALE RACK and get yourself behind the glass case where they keep the VALUABLES. Bottom line: VALUE yourself more. Re-post if you like! You might help someone get off the CLEARANCE RACK."

 

I have a few Qs -

When does an item get to the "sale rack"? ---- when its old and the seller wants to get it out and make some money off of it while he can. That's the last trick to make the item "sellable".

Why does an item get to the "sale rack"? ---- because even when it was a hot item no one wanted it (for whatever reason), so eventually it got old, got out of fashion, started degrading, its essential to get it out now or its never gonna get sold. Its now or never.

 

In my youth when men treated me poorly, I've turned them down. In fact the UK-ex said to me before breaking up "So, you think you are going to cut a better deal than this (me or himself)? I really want to see who you end up with. I've seen too many cases like yours. One fine day, in your 30s or 40s, you will cry bitterly to your God to provide you a man, any man and you will marry him without a second thought. Mark my words."

Guess he is winning. He must be smiling wherever he is right now. In fact I'm thinking of calling him and telling him that I actually feel that I made a mistake by letting a great catch like him go. I'm going to cry when I say this. Hopefully this will get him off my back. He may even stop giving me blank calls at work. My problem is not that he is winning. My problem is that I let him go because I deserved and could get someone who would treat me better. I'm still meeting same kinda men, still suffering through bad treatment and I'm calling these men back (I want to puke right now with self-disgust) because I'm single, older, and now the pool is significantly smaller.

 

The Q that I've asked myself a million times.... Holding out is no problem. What am I holding out for? Does anything better exist AT ALL? If it does, is that "better" ever going to come my way? If it does, is that "better" going to like me?

 

I'm not angry at anyone. I'm angry at myself. I see my price falling every single day. The truth is that these men have options. If you don't take someone "who supposedly treats you poorly", someone else will take him happily. I'm not saying you should take him, I'm saying if you don't, then be ready to stay single for some extra time (extra extra or forever). I'm not angry at my sisters who marry such men either. I think women are much more afraid than men to turn old and be alone. They will marry low and even stay in abusive relationships for this reason. My married girlfriends who complain endlessly about their husbands will not trade places with me for a single second. In fact they try to protect their husbands around me (which is very painful. Am I going to snatch away your husband from you? Why? because I couldn't find a man on my own? Honey, I couldn't snag a single man. Now I'm going to try my luck on a legally married man? seriously? talk about poor judgement. One girl was literally holding her husband's hand since the moment I entered her house till I was gone. I was so uncomfortable. I'm not going there again.)

 

I know that some women have managed to get married in their 40s. I really respect them for their patience and courage. More than them, I respect their husbands who decided to marry someone equal and not marry a 20 year old. I don't have that kinda courage. I'm struggling with it every day. If I dont put myself on the sale rack now, I'm going to be alone (and that's not a problem, but I'm not happy about that option either). Thats why I'm on the sale rack. Even then I'm not sure if someone will lift me up, try me on, and finally take me home. And it sucks to think this way, but this is the reality.

 

I met a woman who is straight shooter and very shrewd. She reminds me of Patty Stanger sometimes. She looked at me and said "You are pretty (her words, not mine). Make sure you don't put on weight. I don't care if you diet or go under a knife. Put it on credit honey. Finish that degree of yours so you can tell men 'you married late because you were busy with school, it would make you look like you had some goals, whether you really had goals or not. Get a job and spend money on maintaining your beauty. YOu will find a taker. You will have to go lower, though, because we both know you aint fresh meat. But you will get married."

[penelope13]

This makes me so sad: in response to Annie's post, you are not asking how you can move 'behind the glass', but you keep focusing on the sales rack

 

Why keep doing the same thing again and again, if it has not given you any kind of success? I know change is difficult and scary, but continuing down the same path is destructive. Just to be clear: I am not talking arranged marriage vs 'western style' here, but how you approach your search.

 

The longer I follow your story, the less I believe that deep down you want a husband. I think you are too afraid to even admit this to yourself, so you keep looking, but at the same time seem to be setting yourself up for failure. The misery encounter during your search seems to be less scary than the option of facing consequences of abandoning looking for a husband and fully focusing on finishing your degree, finding a stable job, getting a green card ALL BY YOURSELF. - Even though this is what you truly want.

 

Why I think like this? You clearly stated that if you would fly back to India right now, your parents have lined up a number of men. They can't be worse than any of the guys that you encountered so far, and you would have your family around to help with the 'negotiations' and could be more assured to be treated with a minimum of respect. You also said that you wouldn't really have to worry about finances in India. Thus your parents are offering you a solution to seemingly one of your major goals, something you seemingly worked towards for ever - yet your biggest concern is 'will I have the option to go back to the US to finish my degree'. - This doesn't sound like 'oh yeah, finally, I can rest and start enjoying life as a married person'.

 

Just try this thought experiment:

- imagine that your parents call and tell you they have found the perfect guy for you in India: he is charming, totally into you, a NICE guy, wants to seal the deal and is excited about his life with you. All you need to do is to agree to come to India and forget your American degrees.

 

Would you take this option if it presented itself?

 

- now try to image the following: you wake up and in your mail box you have an offer waiting for you for your dream job, including getting your green card.

 

 

If you could have one versus the other - which one would you pick??

[LAYAAN]

Why I think like this? You clearly stated that if you would fly back to India right now, your parents have lined up a number of men.

But that does not mean that these men will say yes to me. They are currently interested in me and they want to meet me. That's all.

 

Thus your parents are offering you a solution to seemingly one of your major goals, something you seemingly worked towards for ever - yet your biggest concern is 'will I have the option to go back to the US to finish my degree'. - This doesn't sound like 'oh yeah, finally, I can rest and start enjoying life as a married person'.

 

Just try this thought experiment:

- imagine that your parents call and tell you they have found the perfect guy for you in India: he is charming, totally into you, a NICE guy, wants to seal the deal and is excited about his life with you. All you need to do is to agree to come to India and forget your American degrees.

 

Would you take this option if it presented itself?

 

- now try to image the following: you wake up and in your mail box you have an offer waiting for you for your dream job, including getting your green card.

 

If you could have one versus the other - which one would you pick??

Thank you for writing this. It helps me. I will try to explain what I'm feeling inside.

Do I want to get married? Yes. But currently I'm asking myself this Q.

- If I go back home right now (without taking my boards), and none of these guys say yes to me or vice versa, I will want to come back here and take my exams and try my best to get a job here.

- If even one of these men like me, my parents will put pressure on me to marry the guy and simply stay there (now I've my diploma in my hand). If I give in and get married, I will always ask myself this: Did I miss my chance at a better life in the US because I didn't take boards and try to get a job? If I had cleared the boards, gotten a job, I would have gotten a man there. Why did I not try? And that is what scares me. I can't live the rest of my life with this "what if". Thats why I've to give it my best here.

- If I don't clear the exam in 2 attempts, then I will go back to my home country and marry whoever with a calm mind knowing that I tried my best and things were not meant to be. There will be no "what if" in my mind then.

 

If I've to stay single, I would rather stay here, get a job, apply for a residency, etc. than go back to my home country.

[penelope13]

So, if you are so clear about what your preference is: giving your exams a fair chance - then live accordingly, i.e FOR THE TIME BEING focus all your energy onto studying, remove anything from your life that takes energy away. That includes the hunting for a husband until your exams have passed.

 

IT doesn't mean that you have to give up on that part of your dream, but just to postpone it to give yourself the best possible conditions to be successful with your exams

[LAYAAN]

Thanks Penny. Yes, that makes sense.

[LAYAAN]

A man is interested in talking to me. He is currently in a different country. The time difference is so odd that I've to put in extra efforts to be up at an odd time to talk to him. There is nothing wrong with him. Its just that for now, I want to focus on my energy into studying and men that are here. If things dont work out here then I'm willing to give him a shot.

I don't want to leave him hanging. What do I do? How do I tell him this?

[annie24]

Given that there is an odd time difference, you can schedule "weekly calls" in which you chat on the phone for 30 minutes - 1 hour. You can still study and get to know a sense of who he is over a few phone calls. I don't think that you should have to go to extremes, nor should he - you should try to find some mutual time that is agreeable to you two. I mean - you shouldn't wake up at 3:30 in the morning to talk to him. Maybe wake up at 5 or 6 to take a call, but don't go insane either.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Annie.

[LAYAAN]

venting....

 

My mom called "where are you? no call from you."

Somehow topic diverted to my younger cousin sister "If you want to get married, you have to zero in on that. Forget everything else. See what your sister did. She told her boss 'if you can't give me 2 days leave, I will leave the job. What are you going to do then?' Do you have those guts to tell your boss that?"

 

Me "I can't throw away something that I currently have in hopes of getting married. That is not a wise move. You know that as well. Please do not give me her example. She has accomplished a lot for her standards. Her mother doesn't break her spirit down like you break mine down. Her mother thinks that her daughter has achieved a lot already and that's great. If I throw away everything that I have now (no matter how tiny it is now) and boys back home turn me down, where am I going to go? What am I going to do? I will go crazy and mad with loss of everything. I will have to find something to engage my mind into... makes sense? Her focus was marriage at any cost to anyone. She was willing to lower her standards to get married. I'm not at that point yet (agreed, I'm getting there). I desire to be treated with respect and love in marriage. So, I'm holding on. I'm not going to comment on her degree and her achievement, etc. People have different walks in life."

 

Mom "Don't think for a second that you have achieved much. You ran after a mirage. You have gotten nothing in your life. A degree that is basically useless."

 

I'm in physical pain today and this additional madness. Why? Why do I expect kind words from my parents? Why am I alive to suffer through this?

[annie24]

your mom sounds like my mom. why is marriage the end all be all. i disagree that your degree is useless. you can take care of yourself with it.

 

a lady i know, her husband of 30 years just left her for another woman. she got an e-mail from him saying that he wasn't coming home, ever, and that he was moving in with this new woman. this, after she raised his child and put him through college! imagine that! luckily, this woman has a college degree and a job, because otherwise, what could she do? financially, this will still be hard for her.

 

having an education is something that no one can ever take away from you. and besides, why is your mom pushing it? isn't her marriage not so great? does she want you to be miserable as well? you will be miserable if you marry the wrong man.

 

my mom is like this too - it's all about marriage and babies to her. sheesh. but as we know, marriage is not a gaurantee of anything. it's not a guarantee that he will be there for you.

 

just today, i was walking accross the street, and a woman stopped me. she was in a panic, asking if i knew a bus route to get to a battered woman's shelter. she had just come from one in a town 2 hours away, but her husband tracked her down and the shelter got her on the bus to my city and told her to go to the other shelter, to hide. the woman was in a panic, she said she had no money, she had no bags, nothing. she had an emergency cell phone the shelter gave her. I gave her $20 to take a taxi. i hope she is ok.

 

and yes, this is a nightmare that happens everyday - having to leave and run away from everything to get away from an abusive husband. this happens to many women.

[penelope13]

Nobody can ever change the ways of their mother. However what you can do, is emotionally separating yourself. Yes, when you were a child, your whole emotional well being was defined by your mother/parents. However as an adult you have the chance (and IMHO obligation to yourself - and them) not to make them responsible for your emotional well being anymore. You might not like what she says to you, you might love what she says - but you should not emotionally depend on her input either way.

 

It's part of growing up, becoming an individual in his/her own rights. What she says/ how she thinks may continue to annoy you - however you should not burden her with the responsibility of your emotional state and well being. That is now YOUR responsibility.

 

I get that you have the feeling that your mother never understood you properly, never supported you, never gave you comfort - you can chose to stay stuck in resenting her for that and being angry about that or you can decide to see that she has her own burdens and issues that lead her to be like this and that she tried to the best of her abilities, but that you are now old enough not to need her approval and comfort anymore. You can learn to give those things to yourself. You SHOULD learn to give those things to yourself. You have so many more options and chances than your mother could ever dare to dream of - you have the opportunity to conquer the whole world so-to-speak. Yet you continue to chose to be stuck back home with momi hoping for her approval.

 

Gosh you made it all the way to the US by yourself, you received a PhD in a science field, you are about to receive your pharma license - do you really need your mother to know that these are accomplishments?

[LAYAAN]

Penny, thank you for writing.

I can take the world on, but I feel hopeless and crushed in my spirit when my mom uses unkind words to tell me how I'm a loser and how I should not think highly of myself, how I am no better than my 25 year old, visually rotund, cousin sister who completed college and threatens to leave her job every time her boss complains that she is more on leave than at work because her priority is to get married. Would you not get mad if you mom said something like this to you? I can deal with outsiders behaving this way. They don't care for me. They dont' know me. Fine... but your mother behaving this way..? especially when all you have done your entire life is be an obedient child and caused no trouble..? I'm sorry I can't help but feel hurt. I have no connection with my dad... I only know my mom as my parent and yes I want to be accepted by her. The rest of the world doesn't matter. Where do you go when your mother behaves this way with you?

 

All I said to my mom was "when you give me her (cousin) example, I feel like you are comparing me with her and that's not right. Her and I are not only different people, but we are at different levels." My mom got angry and said "No, you are no better than her. Don't think you achieved something great by getting through your degree." And that just crushed my spirit.

 

This is what my mom does. My mom sarcastically asked me if I knew how to drive on my own. When I got my driver's license here, I never told her that I have passed behind-the-wheel test. I thought... what's the point? She is going to pass some dirty comment again. I never told my mom anything about passing my step 1 and 2 of pharmacy either. Why bother saying anything to her when she clearly thinks that I'm a loser?

Last year when she was here... I took her with me to a book store. I picked up a book on knitting and started looking through it. She immediately goes "Keep it down. YOu are not going to buy it."

I looked at her and said "Did I ask you if I could buy it? If I want to, I will buy it. I'm not a 20-yr old living under your roof anymore. Don't forget that."