Thoughts, ramblings

[LAYAAN]

I actually came accross a profile of a man who doesn't want kids. I approached him and simply called him without any further delay. As it turns out, he actually is fixed (why would anyone do that so early on? Well he says that he is sure that he doesn't want kids so he went ahead and did that). Not that I'm excited about it, but alright, I'm willing to hear what he has to say. Everything else seemed to match on paper. We even speak same language, same caste blah blah. BUT he wants to stay in the US forever. He never wants to go back. I asked him to allow me some time to think about that. He closed the match saying that this won't work.

[penelope13]

*If you don't like the guy and if you are not attracted to him - stop communicating with him and forcing a romantic feeling that is not there. If you don't like the person to start with, how are you imagining spending a whole life with this person?

 

We have discussed numerous times that as long as you are in the arranged marriage market you can't approach it with the same kind of hopes and expectations as when you would go the 'romantic route'. You can't get angry at men if they are going by the traditions/conventions of the arranged marriage route by being in touch with other women and waiting for an agreement in the order of their preferences.

 

*(not getting into a religious debate here) if you believe in a God, you have to assume that he/she/it created humans including giving them a brain/will of their own.

 

I strongly believe that life/a God if you so will/ nature puts challenges in front of us to learn certain life lessons. As long as you are not getting the lesson, life will throw the same/similar challenges at you again and again. Why would we have a brain to think for ourselves, make decisions for ourselves, if there is/was a higher being that would make all of these for us?

 

No, it's foremost our own responsibility to take charge of our own life and make decisions, regardless if easy or difficult. Of course we can consult others (family, friends, internet forum, religious guides etc) - but in the end the responsibility lies within ourselves.

 

You say you want to know if you are the one creating problems and where you can change. - Well no one here on ENA is a god, but nevertheless many people have pointed out where they believe you are contributing to your eternal frustration and disappointment with finding a husband. Many suggestions were also given what you could try to do in order to create different situations and approaches for you.

 

I want to tell you an anecdote/short story:

 

A guy is going over board at high see, his ship sank. He is floating on the ocean. A small fishing boat comes by and the fisherman offers to take him into this boat. The guy in the water says "no thank you, God will safe me", so the fisherman leaves. A little while later a sailing boat passes by, the sailor offers to rescue the man. Again he says: "thank you, but God will safe me". By now the man in the water is getting pretty weak. yet he has enough strength to see the arrival of yet another boat and someone wanting to take him on board. Yet again, he turns the help down with the same explanation. A little while later, he dies and he goes to heaven. When he meets God he asks: "why did you not safe me from drowning?" And God says: "I sent you 3 different boats ..."

[annie24]

("You are not ready for marriage, you are not ready for kids. What are you ready for?") I told him yesterday that I need to focus on my exams and I want some distance to be able to study so we shouldn't talk as often. I don't miss talking to him. I don't enjoy talking to him. Mostly we tend to argue. I don't look forward to talking to him. What the heck am I doing with him? I'm clinging on because I'm tired of looking and there is noone better than him at this point. I dont' like this, but thats the truth. I should atleast be honest to myself if not someone else.

 

Oh tinu, I can sort of understand why these men are frustrated with you. Why are you on a marriage site if you are not ready to marry? If you need time to think, I think a dating site is better for you. I think after living in the US for as long as you have, the US culture has seeped into yourself and you're wanting something more than just a man to marry. That's fine, IMHO. But you have this internal struggle going on - you want to get married, but you also tell these men you need time to think. Men like these, I think especially the fixed man, they know what they want, and aren't going to want time to think.

 

Here's my take - until you have a marriage proposal and a ring, you don't have a man. Thus, you don't need to tell guys that you "need time to think." you just continue getting to know them, and know other men, until one asks you to marry him. I think "I need time to think" is seen as a serious blow-off. I probably would have closed the match myself had a guy said that to me. (Actually, eharmony does have that option as well. I was not ok with that)

 

As for not feeling passion for this man you've been getting to know for 3 months - isn't that the whole point of arranged marriage? you find someone suitable for you, and you let the love/bond grow over time?

 

I agree with everything penelope said about creating problems for yourself.

[LAYAAN]

You can't get angry at men if they are going by the traditions/conventions of the arranged marriage route by being in touch with other women and waiting for an agreement in the order of their preferences.

No, I'm not angry at the man I went to meet at all. I'm disappointed to learn that I'm not his 1st preference, but I'm not angry at him for this. I actually appreciate his honesty. This is not just about arranged marriage. Even in dating world, people date several people at the same time before they decide who to be exclusive with. So I get that part.

 

We have discussed numerous times that as long as you are in the arranged marriage market you can't approach it with the same kind of hopes and expectations as when you would go the 'romantic route'.

Well, sometimes people in the western world consider arranged marriage as 'Poor girl has no choice. She is just a glorified housekeeper and baby-producing machine. She has no say in this. She probably didn't even get to see the guy before wedding.' And I don't blame them for that because they haven't been exposed to the variety of arranged marriage market. Even in India arranged market is not same everywhere. Yes forced marriages like these do exist, but in cases where both girl and boy are educated, living independently outside India, its just the way they meet each other and then continue to interact with each other for several months before they finally decide to tie the knot. The guy I have been talking to (for 3 months now, and have met) knows this and is fine with this approach. Both women and men expect that they get a kind, understanding, supportive partner even if they are going the arranged route. Its not an unusual expectation. You know I dated that fireman, he wasn't emotionally supportive. Its not about the route of finding a match. Sometimes you just don't meet the right person.

Also, I have come to understand something. No straight man will ever provide the emotional support that my girlfriends do. Thats just something that I've to live with as a straight woman. So, I should just keep my expectations in check. Our girlfriends know when we are just venting or really looking for solution. They "get" us. Men mostly don't. That's just not how they are wired. This guy has never been in a relationship with a girl (which bothers me, but alright). He went to military school in India... all men there. He has lived away from home for so long. He has no sisters, no girlfriends. I feel that he is not exposed to women and their emotions enough. Additionally he has been single forever so its a huge adjustment for him to let go of some of his own ways. He is struggling with that. Just like I'm a newbie in the area of men, he is an infant in the area of women.

[LAYAAN]

Yes, my problem is my internal struggle and my inability to decide and stay put on something whether it turns out to be right or wrong. I'm an indecisive person and I'm expecting men to "get" me. That's madness.

[LAYAAN]

On a separate note, I've been wanting to mention that ever since I opened an account on that matrimonial site, I've seen some of the same profiles. I'm not sure who said it to me whether it was Annie/Penny or someone else that when they reopened their account, some of the same men were still there looking for a partner, so don't worry about partner search right now, focus on your PhD.

 

I had mentioned about this guy before in my journal somewhere. I told him that I won't be able to follow his deadline 'marriage within 3 months and 1st kid within 3 months'. I also told him that I will be happy to keep the match open and get back in touch with him once my education is over, he declined that offer and hurriedly closed the match. I thought 'well, he must have someone else on the line'. He contacted me back on the matrimonial site. So, the point is whoever said to me that these men will still be around was right. I never saw it that way, I was dying to meet these men because I thought well what if they get married to someone else? What was I thinking? I would say 90% of them are still there. Really even a year's time didn't make any difference. I'm really surprised. If they were in this hurry to close the match and move on, who do they think they were hurriedly moving on to?

[annie24]

what does "emotionally supportive" mean to you?

[penelope13]

If they were in this hurry to close the match and move on, who do they think they were hurriedly moving on to?

 

The same could be asked about you: why are you so much in a hurry to seal a deal, if there are not other options waiting for you?

 

Answer: the behavior is completely anxiety driven on both sides (probably for different reasons) - not a motivator to promote a stable relationship, no matter in the western/or arranged route

[LAYAAN]

The same could be asked about you: why are you so much in a hurry to seal a deal, if there are not other options waiting for you?

Answer: the behavior is completely anxiety driven on both sides (probably for different reasons) - not a motivator to promote a stable relationship, no matter in the western/or arranged route

Well first of all, noone should take anxiety-based decision when it comes to marriage. That applies to me too. So I agree with you on that.

I know, I'm aware that I come accross as a woman who is desperate for a ring and will settle with whoever. And I'm not denying that. Am I saying its right? No, its not.

I'm not trying to be politically correct here (I've always been honest and open here), but I've relaxed a lot of my conditions. Why? because I want to get married. Women in the western world won't always understand my plea (and that's okay), but I'm a strong supporter of this theory "settle while settling is still an option". I went from age 21-32 and I've lived to tell the stories of how the pool of eligible men shrinks after late 20s. If you get fewer applicants, your choice automatically reduces. I'm open to moving for the right person. I'm willing to let go of immediate lack of physical attraction if the guy is educated and decent person. Again women in western world may not agree with me, but as a woman I've serious limitations in pursuing a man and making him change his mind about me. Men can do that. They can pursue a woman and make her change her mind about them and even marry her. Women normally can't do that. They just have to keep moving if a guy says no to their advances. So, I've to only work with those men that have said yes to me. I'm trying my best to choose the best possible candidate out of these candidates. The only condition that I'm not able to relax is that I want a man that is honest, sincere, will treat me right, is not rude/arrogant. Most men have failed in this last category.

If at all I was someone who wanted to seal the deal in a hurry, I would have married the UK guy. If I really wanted to give into my anxiety, I would have just gone with the 1st guy who showed up at my door. I think my desire to not delay marriage decision any longer than necessary is misunderstood here. After a few years I wont' get any takers. I want to settle down while settling down is an option. I know that in arranged market after a certain age, you seize to exist. I don't trust American mainstream dating, I'm not religious and can't fake it for a man (so I can't date a religious American man), so what choice do I really have than to push through arranged market even if its painful? Ask Indians on this forum, most of them will agree with me. I know where I stand in that market. I'm trying to make the best of it.

[LAYAAN]

what does "emotionally supportive" mean to you?

I hope this is not a sarcastic Q. This is what emotional support means to me -

- Understands where I'm coming from (even if its after I've explained the situation to him). Does not judge me, strives to understand that I'm really trying to do my best.

- Says and shows that he has my back... that he will not, in any situation, leave me out in the cold. Respects me, trusts me. Stands up to people for me (no matter what is the disagreement between us and how we deal with it behind closed doors). Understands that we are one unit after marriage.

- Is sensitive to my needs, acts with love and kindness.

If its my turn to cook and I come home late from work, tired, don't wait up for me to cook/do dishes.

- Is supportive and encouraging of my plans and yes, I'm open to hearing constructive criticism. Doesn't criticize me on small things (in that criticizing way). Accepts me. I'm not talking about major things in life. Those things have to match inherently, but someone who is okay with me overall, doesn't try to change me.

 

I'm aware that this is a 2-way street.

[LAYAAN]

I argued madly with the guy I mentioned in post # 1677. I told him that we are a mismatch and I can't do this anymore. There is so much on my heart right now that I just want to pour out here. I wish I can just hold someone and just cry. I don't know if I'm wrong, but the bottom line is that I just can't force myself any more to try and patch up things with this man.

 

Him "Whats your height and weight?"

Me "60 kg, 5 4"

Him "huh... I just calculated your BMI, its 23.6. You need to lose weight."

Me "No I don't. I'm in the healthy range."

Him "Well, technically yes, but you are on the upper side of the healthy range. You should lose weight and get your BMI to 20.0"

Me "I don't think I can lose any more weight than this. I don't eat much anyways. I walk/jog 3 miles everyday. I really don't think I can lose any more than this. And please understand that I'm in my 30s now. Losing weight is not easy for women as they age."

Him "Well, I told you I want someone that fits the definition of American thin"

Me "I don't have that European jean in me. I will never be stick thin. I don't want to starve myself anymore. I look healthy, I feel good. I can't beat myself up anymore for you. I stopped eating while you were visiting. I can't continue living like this because of your fear. I want to be happy too. You make me feel worse about myself. This is who you are today in the dating phase. How will you act if I can't lose weight quickly after pregnancy?"

Him "Well, if you can't lose weight, I'll be forced to have an affair then." started laughing

 

The guy doesn't stop criticizing me. There is not a single area of me that he is happy about.

- my car

- my driving skill or lack of it. But he wouldn't drive when I asked him to. "Your car is just strange"

- the way I walk "You walk strange. Have you heard about maintaining proper posture?"

- my choice of exercise "Why do you walk/jog? You need to do yoga instead."

- when I said that I would like to get a cat he got mad at me "This relationship will not work. I will not tolerate any pet in my house. These wild animals can never be house trained. I don't want to be cleaning up after them."

- the fact that I'm studying for boards -

Him "You lied to me. You cheated me. Why the hell did you get in touch with me in March when in reality you knew that you still had to study for your useless boards? Why am I paying the price for your career ambitions? Why can't you just work in research? Why do you need to take boards?"

FYI this guy has a PhD, but doesn't want to understand that I've to take boards to be able to get licensed.

Me "YOU want me to find work in your town ASAP. You don't want to marry me unless I have a job in your town. What do you want me to do?"

 

I can't do this anymore. Every single time we fight, he calls up later and says "Sorry I didn't mean it. You take things to heart." He claims that he is right every single time.

So I told him last night "I agree that you are right and that I'm wrong. I have a lot of things to improve on so I dont want you to settle for a slow girl like me. You can do so much better than me."

 

I just want to scream right now. I can't do this anymore. I have blocked his phone number and email ID. I just can't do this anymore and be happy with myself.

[penelope13]

Tinu, are you still on medication and in therapy?

[LAYAAN]

No i'm not on either. Why do you ask?

[annie24]

i'm glad you blocked him. there is no reason to continue corresponding after you told him you are a mismatch. certainly no reason for you to indulge his stupid questions about your weight. what business is it for him since you won't marry him anyway?

 

no, my question about emotional support wasn't sarcastic. i was just curious what you are looking for. seems like a good list to me.

[penelope13]

No i'm not on either. Why do you ask?

 

Because your posts and behavior are constantly contradicting each other.

 

When I was talking about anxiety earlier, I didn't mean that your anxiety forces you to marry an unsuitable guy, but rather that your anxiety/fear drives you to stay in touch with guys who have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are not what YOU are looking for (nothing at all to do with me supposedly not understanding the arranged market; but just basing my observations on what you have described in what you want from a partner).

 

You also have explained how much you have to do to focus on studying and finding a job. While you rationally understand that you need to put all your energy into this, your anxiety/fears don't allow you to take a few months break (by that I mean totally and completely) from looking for a potential partner.

 

You may not like to hear this, but a lot of what you describe/talk about here sounds like self sabotaging yourself; you are repeatedly in the same cycle of frustration, disappointment, fear - a therapist may be better equipped to help you see what you could do in order to get to a better mental state.

 

You also have ignored many comments/posts when someone is trying to give you a suggestion/food for thoughts how to get out of your vicious cycle, which seems to indicate that currently your thought process is a bit stuck - medication may be useful in order to lesson your anxiety and make it easier for you to process things, both for your studies as well as your personal life.

 

Please understand that I am not writing any of this to hurt you, but to genuinely get you out of your cycle.

[LAYAAN]

Because your posts and behavior are constantly contradicting each other.

 

When I was talking about anxiety earlier, I didn't mean that your anxiety forces you to marry an unsuitable guy, but rather that your anxiety/fear drives you to stay in touch with guys who have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are not what YOU are looking for

You are right my friend... you are so right. I agree. I understand this part of your post very well. Its true that I have not chosen to marry a guy yet, but I'm staying in touch with men out of anxiety. Yes, that is right.

 

Thank you for taking time out to explain. I appreciate your patience with me.

 

As I said before, I already blocked the guy. I'm studying now. I can't marry anyone just because they running on a deadline.

[annie24]

Something else to think about tinu - the less time you spend talking to Mr. Wrong, the more time you have to study for exams or to try to find Mr. Right. This guy, for example, is obviously such an ass, obviously is not emotionally supportive, obviously is not the right match for you, why waste another second of your time arguing with him? block him. if he calls you again (which I suspect he will), tell him that if he contacts you again, you will go to the police. And hang up. This guy - he's having fun playing this game with you and pushing your buttons. He sounds like the UK guy, quite frankly. There is no reason to engage him in a debate. If he tells you he wants a thin wife, you say to him, "That's great. But since I do not plan on losing anymore weight, I suggest you find someone else. Goodbye." I don't care if you weigh 500 kg. You don't need to deal with this bull crap. Or with his comments on other aspects of your life. Don't waste your time. 30 minutes you spend arguing with him is 30 minutes you can spend doing something more meaningful.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Annie ....

I told my mom exactly the same thing that he reminds me of the UK guy.

Normally, people don't give others any more chances after 1 strike and thats okay. But because I'm at this age, wanting to get married and I dont' look like a model, I know that my choices are limited. That is why I'm trying my best to give myself more than 1 opportunity to really see what the person is like. I normally try to make sure that I'm not letting a decent guy go because of one-time argument. That leads to my spending more than required time with a man, but when I let someone like this guy go, I'm not going to turn back and wonder if I did the right thing or not.

 

I can't take rapid decisions. I'm not good at that. I stayed in an abusive relationship with the UK guy, but I never went back to him ever after I finally pulled the plug. I never even asked myself if I did the right thing or not. I was sure of my decision. But unfortunately it took me 3 yrs to pull the plug because of my own insecurities. I was afraid then of being single. I didn't know if I would be able to find a man at age 28 if I would have to become single again. I thought that the world has run out of men. I know all this sounds illogical at this time, but I became a very needy, clingy, dumb woman. I honestly feel that I had to become that way so I have a reference point now. Those memories are fresh in my mind. I do not ever want to go to that level again. I am okay with living a single life. I will find a purpose for my life. But I will not marry someone like UK guy hoping for a stable, happy, fulfilling married life. Because that is like trying to chase your own tail.

[LAYAAN]

Most likely I'm going to start making a gradual switch to 100% organic foods now.

I'm not a 100% vegan yet, but mostly I'm. If there is a vegan substitute available I take it. I try my best to not eat out.

I've been reading about genetically modified foods, presence of pesticides in circulation of people who dont' eat organic foods. So, now I want to take a step towards making the complete switch.

My major concern is cost of 100% organic foods. But then I'm asking myself, am I really doing myself a favor looking at short-term savings? I dont know. I'm going to start with organic apples and see how I feel.

[anu1560]

I argued madly with the guy I mentioned in post # 1677. I told him that we are a mismatch and I can't do this anymore. There is so much on my heart right now that I just want to pour out here. I wish I can just hold someone and just cry. I don't know if I'm wrong, but the bottom line is that I just can't force myself any more to try and patch up things with this man.

 

I just want to scream right now. I can't do this anymore. I have blocked his phone number and email ID. I just can't do this anymore and be happy with myself.

 

Hi Tinu...was just checking ena after a long time. Saw your post. Just wanted to tell you that you did the right thing here with this dude by blocking him. You certainly deserve better. Lets put it this way. You are way out of his league in terms of personality. You are kindhearted person. You don't need these kind of self centered people in your life. I dated a guy like this. These are very controlling, shallow, self centered and sadistic people as per me. How dare he even tells you how to walk. You don't have to take these kind of stupid idiotic demands. You don't even need to answer these questions. To me these are actually very mentally abusive comments. Everyone is true here. You don't have to go into these vicious cycle of keeping up with men who are actually abusive, just because you are getting older and in need of a companionship. Be confident on your decision. You don't want to be in these kind of relationships even if he is the last bachelor guy in the earth. Sometimes a little break gives a lot of perspective. Take a break after your boards are over. You seriously need one. Certainly after finishing a PhD. Take a break from everything for a while. Don't know how. But I feel you need one. Hugs.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Anu for your post.

How are you doing? How is school going on?

[LAYAAN]

Parents have been forcing me to talk to a man from India. I gave in and have been talking to him for last few months. Last weekend I decided to gather courage and

asked him "When do you think you will be submitting your thesis?"

Him "I'm not in a rush to officially finish my PhD. I have a job for last few years. I am busy with other things in my life and in contrast to your personality... I'm more of a happy-go-lucky type. I am not saying that I will not submit my thesis, I may, but its not the topmost priority in my life."

This man is 35, has been enrolled in his program for last 10 years. Has a contractual position with a company, he doesn't know what to do after that.

 

I resisted saying anything to him. I expressed my unhappiness about this to my mom. My mom says that I find fault with everyone. I won't get what I'm looking for exactly... on and on and on.... I'm not finding fault. This is what it is... take it or leave it. You dont' get to change it. The Q I'm asking myself is "Can you live with this for the rest of your life? Why bother leaving everything you have going for yourself here to go meet someone who can't even finish his degree?" I don't know what his difficulty is. I really would like to know. He has time to travel all over the country for his hobby and fun, but he has no time to write his thesis?

 

What does it say about someone who does all the work for his PhD, but doesn't complete the last requirement to actually get the degree? What can someone be so busy with that they put their thesis writing on the back burner? I understand that people get burned out. I was... it took everything in me to sit myself down and write my thesis. It was a difficult time. But I wanted the degree (I mean it logically makes sense to get the degree after actually doing the work, or else what are you going to show on paper for the time you spent working on your degree? I dont know if you can call it work experience, really). I'm not trying to paint a bad picture. We might be really very different which is not bad, but in a marriage relationship if a man doesn't have the drive and his wife pushes him, that marriage can blow up in your face. The guy soon starts to think "you feel I'm not adequate, you are too ambitious and you want to force your ambitions on me. Do what you want... I will not pursue this. What are you going to do?" This is exactly what happened in my parents marriage. My dad wouldn't go to pursue a 1.5 yr MS in his field even after the government gave him full scholarship to go study. My mom pushed him to take the opportunity, nothing... he didn't take it.

I told my mom that moving back home to be married to someone like him doesn't seem promising at this time.

[annie24]

I see a lot of ABD people in the humanities. Depends on the field, what their relationship with their adviser is, and what the program requires, and what his current job requires. How is he otherwise? do you two get along on the phone?

[LAYAAN]

I see a lot of ABD people in the humanities. Depends on the field, what their relationship with their adviser is, and what the program requires, and what his current job requires. How is he otherwise? do you two get along on the phone?

yes, we do get along on phone.

He doesn't talk about his relationship with his mentor.

He does not have a typical researcher's personality. He is more social. Likes to travel, sing, was an influential member of several groups, etc.

He is in some kind of fuel engineering something.

What I've gathered from him so far is that he has developed intense dislike towards research (or his research). I can understand that. My Q is what are you going to show on paper to prospective employers for that time you spent in grad school? You are not a SW engineer that you can learn any skill and employers won't care if you have passed highschool. Presently your contractual position IS in research. You are single. You don't support your family. So where is the matter stuck?

[annie24]

how is he currently getting paid - does he have a job or is his adviser paying him? is he in the US? every grad program is different, but my graduate school required that you obtain your PhD within 5 years of passing your qualifier exams - otherwise, you have to take them all over again. eek! that's good motivation right there! most of the engineers I know finished their PhDs in 4-5 years, especially due to the intense pressure from their advisers and departments to graduate. I took about 7 years, but I'm not in engineering but I faced a decent amount of pressure.

 

and of course, i don't have to tell you this, but people can take different amounts of time to graduate, due to differing projects/advisers/programs/etc....