Thoughts, ramblings

[MissIndigo]

I agree with your American friend. It also sounds like these pharmacy boards are and have been a priority for you and if you feel that passing those is your best shot for employment here in the US, I say full speed ahead on it. Also, with the state of basic science in this country, I think you are wise to not pursue postdoc at this time, though if I may suggest, you may want to consider some clinical research or clinical chemistry fellowships to compliment your pharmacy training. Have you looked into those?

 

If you have no immediate need to apply the lab techniques, or if they are something you could acquire should you choose to do a postdoc, skip the course. Don't worry about what the instructor will think (is he really someone who would be valuable in your network, think about that), and should anyone ask you why you aren't doing it all you have to say is that you realize that this is a great opportunity, but that you've ascertained that your more immediate professional goals lie in pharmacy and your intent is to focus on that. But likely they won't make you justify anything.

 

I really feel you need these board exams more than a lab experience you can get elsewhere in time if you need to. Plus a thousand bucks for it, sheesh. I've financed my own way to society meetings before when I had job interviews but just to learn stuff I might not use and no one is paying on my behalf? No way! (Save the money and throw a party for yourself and friends when you pass your boards. )

[LAYAAN]

Thank you missIndigo and Batya for your rapid replies. I appreciate it very much.

 

MissIndigo,

Yes, in addition to my pharmacy background I've been looking into gaining clinical research experience and clinical research training as well. My temporary employment will give me some exposure to clinical research.

I don't have immediate need to apply these techniques. If God is willing I may never pursue a postdoc/basic science research and actually get to work in the field I want to work in. Also, my seniors have told me "Don't worry about learning all techniques. Techniques change all the time. You will be able to learn techniques as you go for your postdocs, if you go for one."

I won't need to stay in touch with the course coordinator unless I choose to pursue basic science research in obesity, diabetes field.

[annie24]

Personally - I would go since you applied for it. Why did you apply in the first place if you weren't interested? I agree with batya, make it a short trip. could be good networking.

 

how long have you been studying for the boards?

[MissIndigo]

Your seniors are right about the techniques. What is hot now was not so hot five years ago and five years before that it was something else, etc., etc. By earning this PhD degree you have you've proven yourself competent and capable of learning--it won't ever go unnoticed. I think a fellowship might be worth it though, especially if you can get two solid years of funding--it's much less risky than the basic science postdocs where you can have your money yanked at any time (which is what happened to me, among other things). Those experiences can be career-killers and you are wise to try your best to stay in an applied or clinical area where the opportunities for professional and career development are greater (imo).

 

I'd be as proactive as I could during this upcoming temporary employment, and be thinking beyond that what you'd like to do and try to start contacting people in that realm now. I'd ask the preceptor immediately who some other good contacts are in this field as you move forward--you're likely to meet some great people!

 

(However, now that I think about it, who are the people the course is targeting??)

[penelope13]

I would start by going through a number of questions and answering them as honest with yourself as possible.

 

Ideally, you want to stay in the US:

 

1) this means you need a visa asap. A visa application requires having a job offer. What type of visa is available to you and what requirements does each visa have? Which type of visa would you be able to obtain right this minute without being dependent on more exams/courses?

 

Which ever is the easiest/most likely, I would go for that just to buy myself time to fulfill the requirements for the type of job that you really want.

 

2) Is the course helping your short term goal of obtaining a visa quickly? For an H1B visa (e.g.) you need to show that you are bringing more to the plate than an equivalent American candidate. Would the course help you in order to accomplish this.

 

3) Will the course increase your chance to find a job, any job quickly?

 

4) If the course is truly increasing your chances of finding a job/ improving your visa requirements (regardless if for the skills you'll learn or the networking opportunities) - then the money is worth investing. If the course itself may not be beneficial, what are the true risks by turning down another scholarship? Could that have an effect later on applying for other scholarships, regardless of basic science or clinical research?

 

5) If you decide to take the course - what are the reasons that you need 2-3 days before/after for transition? - Do you have a physical/ mental limit? Or do you think your goals are important enough to push yourself beyond your fears, anxiety, procrastination? If your goal/focus is to do everything in your power to enable you to stay in the US, there shouldn't be a need to refocus going/coming from the course, because the goal is still the same.

 

6) Your parents pressure: I know you don't want to hear it. But it's about time that you grow up, be an individual in your own rights and stand up for who you are and what you want in life. You may not want to tell them, but at least admit to yourself that you want to stay in the US and not to get 'married off', thus you are not going to let your parents pushing affect you anymore. - It's a choice you can make to emotionally sever yourself from them. You have not a single second to lose by investing anything on the arranged marriage market. Your goal is to stay here - finding a man, is not going to help you with this goal (if you wanted to marry someone solely for a green card, you could have done so ages ago).

[LAYAAN]

(However, now that I think about it, who are the people the course is targeting??)

The course is targetting senior PhD students, postdocs, and industry researchers. The course is put together by some academic + industry people because these skills are "in demand" in industry + academics (those who want to work in diabetes, obesity research).

[LAYAAN]

It has been bothering me greatly that the man I'm about to meet repeatedly says to me "You will have to work after giving birth to a child. My mom had a C section delivery (at the time of my younger brother), she was in pain, but she never stopped working. These days women are really confused. On one hand they want to pursue higher education, they want "equality" and on the other hand they want their husband to work hard for them to serve them everything on a platter. I will not allow my wife to sit home, watch TV and get fat. My mom has always been in shape, so its all possible. My wife will have to stay in shape. She will have to do whatever it takes to stay in shape. She will have to work and earn some income and be able to support herself."

I said "If I have a child, I want to be with that child for about a year. My father doesn't even have a passport, my mom will not be able to leave him and come here to help me with the child. Considering my age, I'm not sure when I'll get married and have a child and if I will have a normal delivery. I want my husband to understand that that's his child too and I can't do everything on my own. I want someone who is willing to let me stay home for a while until I'm comfortable to go back to work. A new baby changes many things in people's lives."

The guy doesn't seem to understand. I'm frustrated, disappointed and I'm not sure if I should even meet him if he is hell bent on his wife getting a job right after delivering a baby.

My life is so interesting...

In 2008 I turned down a man who asked me point blank "Will you be able to get a job right after delivering a baby?"

Now I'm having deja vu feeling. I regret turning that guy down because this guy is asking me same damn question. Whats the point in holding out for a better guy? Say yes to any male because they all are the same.

I don't know if I'm disillusioned. Am I expecting too much from a man as a husband? Is it wrong to expect a man to say "Don't worry. You can take a year off after having a child. Stay home/spend time with your child. Connect/bond. I will support the family during that time."

[LAYAAN]

I told myself that I would not b*tch about the date I had with someone last weekend. I'm not happy about it. My mom doesn't understand most of what I say. She says "You need to show yourself to a psychiatrist. Something is wrong with you. You seem to find faults with everyone."

I feel so alone in this process. My dad ... I don't talk to him. He has never been a part of my life. My mom and I ... seems like at times we speak different languages. Its a painful experience. I tell all young women in their 20s "Settle now. There is nothing better that you should hold out for. Its same/worse quality men in your 30s."

I feel very alone today. I want to cry but I can't even cry. The only outlet I have is this journal. I pray regularly, but it takes strength to even push through my prayers in times like these. I just want to give up.

[annie24]

It has been bothering me greatly that the man I'm about to meet repeatedly says to me "You will have to work after giving birth to a child.

 

Tinu, don't get too defensive. I don't think he means 'go back to work the day after you give birth.' (Do you even want children???) I think he means that he wants a working wife. I think that this is something that is negotiable and I don't think that it's something you should get upset over right now. I mean, it's important to have these conversations before marriage. But at the same time, maybe it's not worth getting worked up over if you and this guy are otherwise a good match? In the US, you would typically get 6 weeks maternity leave (I know, bad). Depending on where you work, you may or may not have to quit your job if you want to stay off longer than that. These are issues to discuss for sure. I think he just meant he doesn't want a wife who takes years off.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Annie. Your reply has helped me calm down a bit.

I dont want kids, but he wants one. If everything else is okay, I'm willing to let go of my lack of desire to have a child. I've said it before here. American/Indian... its very difficult to find a man who doesn't want kids, but wants marriage. I've been on EH. Most American men there wanted kids AND marriage. So, there is no point in holding out for that rare man. If everything else is okay, I'm willing to have one child... no more. Hopefully God agrees with the plan.

 

Do you know if there are special baby sitting services for infants? I know nothing about this area. Do you know on an average how long do new moms stay home/take a break from work till they feel comfortable to join workforce again? I would really like to know. Are there any support groups for new moms? Thank you.

[annie24]

I think it depends on the area where you live and the benefits offered by your company. One post-doc I know brings her child to work - she has her own office and the baby is there for half of the day. Finding childcare isn't easy. And yes, it can be expensive as well. Kids who are still in diapers are more expensive than toddlers. I guess if you meet a guy you want to marry and you figure out where you get a job, these are things you will look into. And yes, tons of support groups for moms.

 

I think a lot of new moms that i know take only as much time as their work allows them. unfortunately, that's not a lot of time. it can help having family nearby. but that isn't always an option. some women i know take time off of work, but that's only if their husband makes enough money. Fathers can also get time off of work, so that can help as well. I know some people who take years off of work because going to work doesn't bring in enough money to cover childcare costs, or barely enough, so there is no point.

 

A C-section takes longer to recover from than a vaginal delivery.

 

would you really be open to having kids? I don't want you to resent the child.

[penelope13]

Firstly, calm down.

 

Secondly, why are you all of a sudden so hyper focused on marrying and having a child? You spent hours/days/weeks/months/years explaining that actually you don't want children. This is NOT a small feat. Having a child just in order to keep a man around is in nobodies interest and can only lead to a lot of frustrations and problems down the road. Least of all, it's unfair to the child. Sorry to say, but you are already prone to resentment. This is not going to go magically away just because the child bought you a marriage (psychology never works as simple as we would like it to). You will most likely going to have resentment towards the child if you are not going to be happy in the marriage. You may try and believe you are hiding it, but isn't that what you experienced with your mother? That she resents the way her life turned out to be and that you don't have an emotional close and supportive relationship with her in consequence of that?

 

Your mother is not wrong that you need some help in identifying what your own goals are and an action plan how to reach them. Constantly allowing yourself to be guided by your anxieties and various fears has not lead you to happiness.

 

Obviously ENA is not sufficient to help you to accomplish this; many people have given you advice, yet it doesn't seem to stick and you always end up going around in circles.

 

I know the final steps of finalizing your PhD, pharma exams, visa situation is causing you to panic. But you need to realize when you are in a panic and how to calm yourself down. Giving in to the panic and trying to run away from it by throwing yourself into the marriage market has not been able to help you with your true goals.

 

You can't go into negotiations (that what you are essentially doing with any of these men) when you are motivated by fear. It's not fair to the guy and most certainly it's not fair to yourself.

 

Please believe me that your anxieties and fears will not be over, simply because you are married to someone, especially not if you have to do things that are against your core personality and preferences.

[annie24]

yes, i agree with penelope - everything she said. In addition, I also concur that it's a bad idea to make decisions out of fear or anxiety.

[marshmlofluff]

Thank you Annie. Your reply has helped me calm down a bit.

I dont want kids, but he wants one. If everything else is okay, I'm willing to let go of my lack of desire to have a child. I've said it before here. American/Indian... its very difficult to find a man who doesn't want kids, but wants marriage. I've been on EH. Most American men there wanted kids AND marriage. So, there is no point in holding out for that rare man. If everything else is okay, I'm willing to have one child... no more. Hopefully God agrees with the plan.

 

Tinu, if you prefer not to have kids, then be up front about that in your dating/matrimonial profiles, and you will meet men who don't want kids either.

 

Men like that really aren't that hard to find, as I seem to keep finding them. I've had four serious relationships in my life, and I do my level best to make it clear up front that I *do* very much want kids, and to find men who share that vision. Nonetheless, three of the men I've been with turned out not to want kids; one was Indian and two were not. Apparently my own father was unenthusiastic about kids--although once I was born he changed his mind, thankfully. The present BF feels much like you feel; he does not particularly want kids, but is willing to have kids if I want them, and promises that if we do have kids he will be an enthusiastic father. I did a lot of soul searching about six months ago, and ultimately decided that I can live with his attitude--although to be honest I am disappointed about it, and it does eat at me.

 

Anyway, if you are honest about what you are looking for in your profile, then you will find someone who is compatible.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Annie, Penny, Marsh. I appreciate your patience and persistence.

Yes, I realize that I'm guided by my fears currently. Here is what I'm thinking. Hurts to openly say it, but alright.

 

Do I want a child? No. But I Will have a child if I need to /if I have to. Why? Because I'm tired of standing in dating/marriage market. 10 yrs of standing hasn't brought me anything. If I'm not able to find work in this country or I'm not able to get married in this country, I will be going back to India. Once I go back to India coming back here is very difficult given the economy. Even if I get a job, if my visa is delayed I know how my parents are going to react "You should just get married here to available men. Who knows if you are going to get the visa or not. If you say no now, you may never get to marry again."

 

I have faced this pressure before. When I was preparing for GRE my parents have taken me to meet boys who were in villages at that time. When I resisted my mom said "You *want* to go to the US. I get that, but I will not stop looking until you have a visa AND an admission. You have neither now. If this works out, we want you to get married. Who knows if you actually *are* going to get the visa and admission? Noone has seen the future." I have cried out to God during those times. I dont want to face the same situation again.

 

I can negotiate something here (even with an Indian man in arranged market). I know its not much, but I at least have hope. I can negotiate nothing in India. I will basically have to surrender there just like my mom did. I WILL (I can't stress this enough) have kids once I'm married to a man in India. No Qs asked. This is non-negotiable. Instead of doing that, I might as well marry someone here and have a child. Forget about my life, but my child will get a citizenship and won't face the same nonsense I've faced. I tried being on EH. I didn't meet the kind of men Marsh met. Everywhere I go, I meet men that are on the 2 ends of the spectrum. Its frustrating. I'm losing hope, patience. I don't know who to hold out for. Such a man doesn't exist. I just want to settle (while settling is an option) and call it a day.

[mya]

Hi Tinu,

 

Sorry about all the frustration that you are feeling. Have you ever seen a psychologist? I ask because I am also a very anxious person and therapy has helped me a lot in the past year. Also, CBT therapy has been shown to be very effective for addressing anxiety related issues.

[annie24]

I agree with seeing a psychologist.

 

tinu - on one hand, i totally understand all of this pressure that your culture puts on you to be married. on the other hand - look at your mother's marriage. is she happy? doesn't sound like it. and you know, having a kid is not easy. it's not going to be like taking care of a cat or dog. it's going to be a tremendous amount of life-long stress.

 

you remind me a bit of my mother - she's always on my case to get married. but honestly - why?? her first marriage was terrible, he was a huge womanizer and cheated on her. they divorced after 6 years. tinu - first off, desperation is not attractive. you have a lot to offer to the right man, so don't let people make you feel like you are expired milk or something, that you should be grateful someone chose you. you are not. you're an accomplished, promising future, and you need to meet the right man you can share your life with.

 

have you thought about dating a divorced man? some men who already have children might not have an interest in having any more.

[LAYAAN]

yes I'm open to dating divorced men. but most divorced men I've seen through arranged market don't have kids and are in a rush to have kids.

[dancing_magpie]

Tinu - seriously, take a step back before you make any decisions. You seem really anxious at the moment and that's not a great frame of mind to be in when you're making potentially massive life-changing decisions.

 

First of all, why the mad rush to get it sorted right now (marriage I mean)? Seriously?

 

Secondly why would you have to get married if you return to India? Do you not think you'd be able to get a job there and support yourself? I know it will be harder living in India as a single woman but it can be done. Are your parents going to physically force you/intimidate you into get married? Are they going to emotionally blackmail you? Will they kick you out of their house if you refuse to marry a man?

 

Two of my older cousins were single into their late 30s. Neither of them were interested in marriage. One was an engineering lecturer at a university and the other worked high up in the tax office. I'm pretty certain that the second one even had her own apartment at one point. Their parents were absolutely desperate to get them married but they didn't physically force them to choose someone quickly and even let them live at home for years without making threats. There was some of the usual emotional blackmail...'I'll die before you get married and give me grandchildren, don't you care?' horse crap but they were able to put up with it (for a while).

 

I know being an unmarried woman is a completely different ball-game in India compared to in the West but they were both professional women and could have easily lived the single life if they wanted to. Unfortunately for both of them they eventually caved to arranged marriages which both ended horrendously.

 

One left her job to go to America - couldn't work, got pregnant found out her husband was a liar and a gambler. There was domestic violence and eventually divorce. She's alone now with a kid. The second one married a divorced guy she knew very little about, turned out he had a 20yr old kid (illegitimate), gave her an STI and was generally awful. That marriage lasted about 2-3 weeks.

 

I'm not saying this is what's going to happen to you - these are worse-case scenarios. But these are the kinds of mistakes you make when you are desperate and not thinking properly and rush into marriage with someone...

[LAYAAN]

Personally - I would go since you applied for it. Why did you apply in the first place if you weren't interested? I agree with batya, make it a short trip. could be good networking.

how long have you been studying for the boards?

Sorry I almost missed your Q. I have been studying on n off for about a month now. But I need to study seriously for about 3 months, take the mock boards, see my score in it and then proceed with the actual boards.

[LAYAAN]

1) My temporary employment is not going to work out the way I thought it would. I was promised a position for 1 year. I didn't look around for any position. Friday when I met with the person, he said that he has funds to support me only upto Sept end.

2) There is no way I'm going to shell $1000 out of my personal funds now and go to take the 2 week intense course when during that time I should be contacting others and sending out resumes.

 

I'm into super panic mode right now. The only upside in my life is that I don't have any loans. I don't know what to do anymore. I am looking for postdoc positions, but because of tight funding people are not hiring very much. I'm hanging in there.

[MissIndigo]

Damn. I'm sorry to hear about the employment situation. Still take it--even for a brief period of time it can get you on the inside of a place and ask about other potential contacts. Do you know if he plans to apply for more funding? Do you trust this preceptor to help you network further as well--he may have some leads?

 

I think you are doing the right thing by not shelling out your personal funds for that two-week course. I wasn't too excited about it for you, especially with the cost involved. If your tuition has been covered otherwise I'd have said go. I did shell out about $1K of my own money for a meeting earlier this year, but I had interviews there, so I had that compelling reason to go (sadly no job worked out for me though). Otherwise I would have given it a pass.

 

I have free registration to another conference this summer but it's 3/4 of the way accross the country for me and this time I don't think I can swing it.

 

Thinking of you and I am sorry this is such a difficult time. I understand the anxiety, I really do.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you MissIndigo. I glanced over a couple of your posts. You know how it is like in basic science these days. Basic Sciences is a tough field to be in right now. I noticed 1 thing that its a tough market out there. Employers are picky about what they want and mostly they are able to find it because of high unemployment.

Just got to hang in there. I'm going to take the position even if its for 3 months. I have another meeting with him in 2 days for the same. He knows people in clinical research. Will he be willing to refer me to someone? I don't know yet, I will have to ask. I have to be smart and tactful about it.

I know how it is with taking out money from your personal account to go to meetings. I really do know. My boss lost his grant and got really cranky, so I basically drove back n forth between LA and my place in my old clunker to attend a meeting, ate granola bars and waited at the meeting until past 7 so I didn't have to burn gasoline waiting in the traffic jams. What Annie said in her post is so true. Even I stopped my anxiety pills once the PhD was over. I think it wasn't a good decision.

But I'm hanging in there. Everyday I told myself that I will do MY BEST and I will turn it over to God. Its tough no doubt. But I've been through similarly difficult, unstable situation before.

I know from your posts that your funding ended. I'm sorry about that. Its sad truth in basic sciences these days. But I hope something works out for you. Good luck to you.

[LAYAAN]

So, there is a positive news from my side.

I got an email from the university thesis editor. He has given me green light to get my thesis printed. I called the printing people. They said that the earliest the prints would be ready would be by tomorrow and the latest by Tuesday. Then I have to submit printed copies in his office with some more forms and I'm done with my responsibility and I should be able to get my degree.

Last night I was up and I emailed

1 recruiter for clinical research job,

told senior friend to keep an eye out for a suitable opportunity,

1 senior professor I met at the meeting

1 professor who showed interest in my profile

1 professor whose research interests me

1 scientist recruiter

 

I'm hanging in there. I'm doing my best and trying to stay positive.

[annie24]

That's great. Keep doing that tinu. I know it's a pain, but eventually it will all work out.