Thoughts, ramblings

[LAYAAN]

Great prices! I love Almay eye products and also use the kohl shade or intense black. Hope your thesis is going well and glad you moved on from that creepy guy!

Yes, these items were 75% off.

Its interesting everyone calls the guy creepy. I wasn't comfortable listening to his blah blah either, but he said "I'm being romantic because I like you. Why don't you reciprocate?" wow... Believe it or not I bought into it. I thought 'yes, may be he really likes me. May be I should give him a chance.' But my mom was very worried about my visiting him. I shared some of what he said to her and she said "This doesn't sound right. I don't think you should go to meet him. Call him to meet you and meet at a public place if at all you think you should meet him. But considering how aggressive this man is, I dont' think this will work out." Why am I so naive? Why do I always have to learn from bad experiences? I'm not street smart. ugh! I hate that.

[Batya33]

Because when you're needy and vulnerable you tend to ignore your instincts, common sense, etc- it's overshadowed by the neediness.

[LAYAAN]

Because when you're needy and vulnerable you tend to ignore your instincts, common sense, etc- it's overshadowed by the neediness.

yes, that sounds correct.

[LAYAAN]

wow... so last night the same man called my home phone. I didn't answer. Then he called my cell phone. I didn't answer. Today he called my cell phone X2 while I was talking to my mom. So I called him back.

He answered the phone rudely. "so what have you decided? You said you would call me back. You didn't."

Me "You said you were not interested in having a small talk. You said "good luck, have a good life". What do you want me to gather from this?"

Him "Yes, we are having small talk right now. I just want to know if you are interested in me and if you are coming here after your quarter is over."

Me "I don't see any point in meeting. I dont' feel emotionally satisfied with our conversations. We argue and fight. It just doesn't go anywhere. I'm hurt by some of the things you have said to me and about me. You have created drama in my life."

Him "Well, I'm hurt by what you said as well. You booked your ticket and didn't come to meet me. You are a drama queen."

Me "Well, I told you I had a bad case of flu and my doctor told me that flying at high altitude may worsen the infection because of air pressure changes the fluid from inner ear doesn't drain. (He has a PhD)"

Him "So, how are you feeling now?"

Me "I hope I will recover. The weather is bad here. When I go out my flu relapses."

Him "Oh, does that really happen with flu? You sound normal to me."

Me "...."

Him "Don't think you haven't hurt me. You said you will come and you didn't. You have hurt me as well."

Me "Well, I'm tired of arguments and fights."

Him "We wont' fight if we meet. We fight because we haven't seen each other."

Me "I'm not interested in talking about the same thing again and again. I've already addressed the points from our conversation that have hurt me and you kept defending yourself instead of saying "I'm sorry I said something that hurt you like this. So what's the point of going over the same mountain 100th time again?"

Him "So are you interested in taking this ahead? Give me yes or no only. Don't give me small talk."

Me "I'm not sitting in a court room opposite to a judge. You can't tell me to answer your Q as yes or no. You have done that to me before and that is very hurtful. I'm not a child that you talk to me this way. All I can say at this time is that I need to focus on graduating and getting physically better and I need some time to be able to think clearly. If you are in a hurry, you are very welcome to move on."

Him "You have wasted my time. You played with me. You like that I call you back. You like to see me on my knees. And this time that you need to think or whatever, you are getting older. "

Me "Well, I only responded because you are calling me repeatedly since last night. And no I'm not happy to see anyone on their knees. I dont' want to get married this way to anyone. I want it to be a happy decision from both sides. And I didn't lie to you about my age. It was your decision to continue talking to me. You are very welcome to pursue a young chick."

Him "Sure, I "am" getting a younger girl. I "will" marry her."

Me "As you wish. Good luck to you. Bye."

 

I hung up finally. My voice was raised. I'm just really tired of talking to this man. My mom says if he insists ask him to come meet you. I dont' want to meet. I'm hurt. (He claims that I've hurt him too, and my mom agrees with that. She says that I booked my ticket and cancelled it which hurt him. But I cancelled it because I had a real bad flu and my doctor wrote a note to the airline.) I hate all this. What's the point in meeting? There is no fun anymore. We have argued so much that this man has left a bad taste in my mouth. He says that I'm a drama queen. I don't take anyone's comments sitting down, especially in a situation like this. This is so unnecessary. What a waste of time! I do not want to meet him. Meeting will not solve anything. If I turn him down after meeting he will start again "Why did you ask me to meet you then?" (just as he says today "Why did you book your ticket and then cancel it?") Ugh!!!! hate all this. hate this.

 

When he mentioned today that I'm getting older, it touched a sour spot. This hurts me so much. Why did he need to say that? Why? This is what marriage to this man will be. Listening to his nonsense. We are not even engaged and he is so demanding, rude, and aggressive.

 

Now my head hurts and my stomach is hurting too.

[penelope13]

Tinu, I don't get why you are allowing him to pull you into a lengthy conversation. If there is a next time that you talk to him tell him simply and out straight: I am not interested in continuing our acquaintance. Or something to the similar effect. Don't get into fruitless discussions which will only make you feel worse.

 

All you need to say to him is that you are not interested.

[LAYAAN]

Its men like these that make me wonder if there are any decent men left out there that would say yes to me. If waiting is worth it? Am I pushing to make things work? Should I just settle for whoever says yes to me or let men like these go hoping for a better candidate? How do you keep hope alive? I dont know. The quicker I want this process to end, the longer it seems to stretch. Quality men are hard to find and there is no telling that they would say yes to me. Insecure men are easier to find, easier to snag, but marriage to them will be difficult. My friend said "When it comes to marriage the rule to follow is hard first, easy later. If you don't watch out for quality of the man today, your marriage will be difficult." Guess I'm going to die single.

[penelope13]

I know: easier said than done, but you really have to start learning these guys go as soon as you figure out that they are no good. There is no point in continuing the conversation with them if you have learned that they are not what you want. If you let them go, you will not experience all this hurt and anger that you described again and again. you can't change people (if at all just yourself and you know how hard that is), so don't stick around someone who has already disrespected you once.

 

As we have discussed many times before you are not in the best mind set currently to be looking for a partner.

 

Just focus on finishing the necessary things to get your degree, sort out where to go next, study for your exams - it will get better once those things are over

[LAYAAN]

Oh yes, I agree. When I've seen enough to know that the man isn't what I want for a healthy, stable marriage relationship, I need to let 'em go. It is difficult to practice this because I've issues as well. My major problem is that I'm too focused on marriage and marrying quickly. I want this search to end. As a result, I'm taking decisions out of fear, frustration. I need to spend good time getting to know the person I'd be marrying than worrying about "when am I going to get married? When is this going to end?" Like attracts like. So, if I continue on this road, I will end up getting together with a bad apple.

[penelope13]

I'm pretty sure that even in India it's getting more common and acceptable for people to get divorced, i.e. being married is not a guarantee anymore that a) you will remain married regardless how the relationship is, b) that you will be happy, no matter what; c) that he has to take care of you financially, emotionally, logistically etc.

[Pkittie]

Tinu, I'm sensing a whole lot of desperation in you to get married...gal it's about your whole life ahead. You realize the ramifications of a divorce??? This guy was a complete idiot to begin with & yet you kept entertaining him? You are not the only single gal in 30s who is looking for a suitable partner...Sorry, if I sound harsh but you are headed on a path which is frought with challenges. On the one hand, you want to be confident career woman & on the other hand instead of looking for love, a man who treats you respectfully etc you are just dying to get a married tag so that your status is acceptable in the eyes of your family & society. Most women desire to be in a loving relationship...we are all searching for our partner & trying various avenues but obsessing about it to a point of no return cannot help at all...If that jerk commented about your age, why take it to heart?? Do you not see that most Indian men in the arranged market are looking for a fish they can take home & bake. Someone who will produce their kids & dance to their tune. Be glad that you saw his true colors beforehand.....

[LAYAAN]

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[LAYAAN]

I had a loong day yesterday. But finally, my boss has approved my thesis. I gave it to the Univ-appointed thesis person for final format corrections. Talked to the Univ printing people. Will get my thesis printed soon.

It was surprising to hear my boss say "You are graduating. You are becoming an independent researcher & writer. I don't want to be correcting your work. I only gave you suggestions/questions that you might want to think about or gaps left in your writing. If you are happy with you thesis, send me the final copy, I'll sign the approval page and lets move on to getting the 2nd paper out. Thesis isnt' as important as getting a paper published. Thesis is a formality, really."

Wow... never thought I would hear that. I was really concerned that he will continue to edit, edit until the last minute and I would not meet the deadline for final submission. But I hope that things will work well now. I still have this week and next week to meet the deadline of June 10th for final submission of printed copies.

Hanging in there. Staying put. Everyone at school gave me an impression that once you defend, its done. No... its not over. You still have to finish corrections and meet the deadlines one after the other. Now is when I'm interacting with many different departments that overlook university-wide operations. Simply filing out all the paperwork for graduation, getting signatures, contacting necessary services, filling out surveys, exit interviews, is quite a bit of work. That reminds me I still have 2 surveys to fill out. All this is mandatory and there are deadlines to meet. If I don't comply, I won't get my degree. Simply keeping a track of all emails from the secretary is a chore. But I'm glad to have reached this stage and I hope to stay on top of these things and get 'em done before the deadline.

[LAYAAN]

So, once a week we are given an opportunity to go to the nutrition and dietetics program's kitchen. We pay $2.50 and get a decent lunch. The students cook and serve you and their professors monitor the event. Its quite good food, healthy and filling. Today they had burrito bowl with whole wheat tortilla, cilantro-lime rice and black beans (build a burrito with other ingredients), orange, and mint water. Its fun to see the young kids cook and their professors rate their skills. I mean I watch food network to relieve stress so this isn't new, but when you see it in real life its really fun, I think.

[annie24]

Maybe I will sound old fashioned here - but why are these men expecting YOU to fly out to visit them for the first time? I think they should come visit you. Then, if you get along, you visit him next. but stop flying all over the country for jerks, i thought you learned that from before??

 

I'm not surprised that the advisor said your thesis is not as important as the paper. like i said, from this point on, no one will read it. maybe someone in your lab, if you are lucky. there is an old joke that people put $20 in their theses and come back 20 years later to see the money still there. just focus on the paper. and doing the other things. it's annoying, but needs to be done. don't let these stupid men get you upset either. while i agree if you want to be married, you should be proactive, have up profiles, etc.... but it's ridiculous to try to bend over backwards for some guy who hasn't proved he is worth it yet. I don't see what huge 'investment' he put into you when you were the one who bought the plane ticket, not him!!!! sheesh. tinu - i think you should let these guys convince YOU that they are good men and a good match for you, not the other way around.

[LAYAAN]

Annie, if I wait around for Indian men to prove their worth to me, I will not get married. A marriage to an Indian man (especially raised in India) is about servitude.

And I'm okay with not marrying (as much as I want to get married). Somewhere in my journal I've written openly about my fears and why I'm trying my best to get married. If I don't get married in a year or so in this country, there is a high possibility that my mom will call me up and say "We gave you a year as per our conversation so you can graduate and look for a man who will marry you. But you haven't found anyone. You don't have a green card/citizenship. What's your future in that country? Come back instead, we will get you married. You have real estate here. You won't have to work as hard to build wealth from scratch in addition to facing visa issues in a foreign country."

Women of Indian origin may disagree with my thoughts here. I do not want to get married to an Indian man and live in India. Married life there is hell. Living with in-laws, cooking, cleaning, having sex with your husband with your in-laws sleeping in the next room (if you are lucky, mostly the apartments are so small, they would be sleeping practically outside your bedroom door. I'm assuming that I will be able to afford a one-bedroom apartment there), my mom went through this, my friends are going through this. I'm too old to adjust with that madness. At least initial few years I dont want to live with in-laws. I see that as intrusion. I grew up in a house with just my parents and had my own room always. I'm used to having privacy and my space. I don't think I can change all that so quickly.

But if I happen to go back to India for good, I WILL get married to whoever, because its easier to live life as a married woman in that culture than as an older single woman. (again women of Indian origin may disagree, but this is my observation) As I've written in my posts many times before, I would rather settle for a not-so-good apple NOW than completely lose the opportunity of settling for even a rotten apple later. I have nothing against women who marry later in life. Power to them. I salute their courage. I don't have it. If I go back to India, I WILL have to get married to whoever. I know that already. So, while I'm here, I'm trying to do my best to see if a man would find me acceptable. It hurts to say all this. But this is the truth. This goes against my personal belief system, but hey... I'm doing it. What I think about myself is not the point here. There are some major strikes against me:

- I dont have a job today. Indian men even on EH want assurance that I will get a job once I marry them. Its hard to provide that assurance without any sort of hard evidence like a current job. They are scared that if they marry someone like me, I may just sit home and they will have to provide for me.

- Indian people (especially men) only understand engineering and medicine as valid education that will get you a job. Degrees other than these are in 'also ran' category. Recently, I talked to a guy who said to my face "Listen, its not like you are Aishwarya Rai. I really want a working wife. You may work... fine, but how do I trust that? You dont' have yoru pharmacist license today, do you? Plus I dont' understand a thing about your education or degree. Its much easier for me to go back to India and marry a software engineer and bring her here with me. I feel safe to take that risk than to marry you. None of you look like Aishwarya Rai... so I'm just letting that thing go, but your education is so strange, I'm not sure you would be able to find a job where I live (and I want a working wife), plus you took 7 years to get a PhD. Your PhD is not from Harvard. You see my point? This SW engineer girl is not good looking either, but she is an engineer. She will be able to hit the ground running after she comes to the US. I can even try to get her hired in the same company I work in. No hard feelings, its nothing personal. Its not like I'm in love with you. I've to make a decision for my life, I'm using my brain."

This is the general opinion about me in marriage market "You bring nothing tangible to the table."

Honestly, I feel sorry for myself to even want to make it work with men who won't trust my ability to find a job. I feel disgusted when I try to "sell" myself in this market. I've become a person that I don't recognize nor approve of. I'm internally torn and feel sorry for wanting marriage. It hurts me to even write all this. I don't recognize the words: dream, love, passion, self-esteem anymore.

You ask why do I bend over backwards to go see these men. Here is how the conversation goes normally. We have talked 4-5 times by now, gotten deal-breakers out of way.

Me "I would be open to meeting if you are as well so we both can decide if it makes sense to go ahead"

Him "Sure, you can come. I'm busy/I cant ask for holiday/The distance is too far for me to fly out for just a weekend (or something similar)"

Me "I'm not sure I can come either. I'm trying to finish requirements of my degree and I'm a student, so I don't have sufficient money to fly and stay there."

Him "Well... in that case... we will meet when you have time to fly out here. Until then we will keep talking if you want/Until then I'm not interested in talking/You get back in touch with me when you are ready to come here (or something similar)"

Normally after talking for 4-5 times, it makes no sense to continue talking about rising price of gas and wild weather in the mid-west. I'm okay with not talking, but that is not the solution either, so I say ... alright I will come to meet you. If I don't then the answer is a no. I would rather take a chance and go to meet these men and get a no. At least I gave it a shot. And if its a no, then at least its over, but otherwise its just being in a limbo. Mind you, I've let at least 7-8 men go, have completely and suddenly cut contact with them because they simply were adamant about not coming to meet me here and made it sound like "You want an answer, you come here. I dont' need to meet you. You need me." Dont misunderstand. It all hurts, no doubt about it.

I didn't have a good experience with American men either. Most want to play house without commitment. So what do I do? Where do I go? I would take a chance with an Indian man in arranged market than an American man in dating market. Its not that one is better than the other, its just that one is known devil and there is a possibility of marriage with an Indian man in arranged market. With an American man, they seem to want everything that an Indian man wants without commitment. I'm not okay with that.

So that's your answer for why I'm bending over backwards to accommodate them in my life. Hurts to write all this. It makes me feel so less and noone likes to feel this way. Its ridiculous... I'm trying to lift myself in professional life and in personal life every second I'm made to feel less about myself. I really dont want to get married this way. I would carry that hurt and anger and resentment with me into married life, which is not healthy for the relationship. All I've heard so far is "No... you are not needed here. I can do better than you." I want to know what is better than me? How do you define "better"? a job in software, IT? I told my mom many times "Even if I had a job today and the guy came in with this attitude I won't be able to marry him, because this goes against my personal belief system. You don't marry someone because they have a job today. Yes, I mean its good, but is that all that we really require for marriage compatibility?" My mom calmly replied "Your questions are legitimate, but they carry no meaning, because an alternative way is available to these men. As long as they find takers, your Qs are just a waste of breath and nothing more. So if I were you, I would focus on graduating and putting an end to this journey and getting a job."

I have written many times in my prayer journal "God... how ridiculous life can get! a guy with a BS in engineering from India comes here and questions my ability to find a job. A guy with a 1.5 yrs MS in SW engineering considers himself eligible to ask me Qs about my ability to find a job. Why am I putting myself through this experiences over n over? Talk about loving self-sabotaging behavior! where is love in all this? all I see is business. I'm not sad that these men turned me down. I doubt if my marriage to them would stay put really. How long can you fake happiness? Well... what does happiness mean to you? What makes you happy is again different for each person. My issue isnt' that such men exist... my issue is that I don't know what else to do than to cross path with them. I wish I had a well-defined purpose to my life, I really would be happy pursuing that goal and be content being single. I would love to make something out of my life, something other than this ordinary nonsensical madness that's going on. But I don't have that and I don't have even simple, mundane, normal expectations of life met either. How frustrating is that! I'm not here nor there."

[annie24]

Him "Sure, you can come. I'm busy/I cant ask for holiday/The distance is too far for me to fly out for just a weekend (or something similar)"

Me "I'm not sure I can come either. I'm trying to finish requirements of my degree and I'm a student, so I don't have sufficient money to fly and stay there."

Him "Well... in that case... we will meet when you have time to fly out here. Until then we will keep talking if you want/Until then I'm not interested in talking/You get back in touch with me when you are ready to come here (or something similar)"

 

I think a man who says this to you is not truly interested in getting to know you and marrying you one day. I know you can say that the Indian system is rough, but I think if a guy is really interested in marrying you, he would not expect you, as a student, to come visit him. He would figure out a way to see you.

 

I don't know how you are talking about your degree and career options, but these guys sound like jerks. I think you should be proud of what you have accomplished and play up your great career potentials. i wonder if you are talking about yourself in a way that does not highlight your best qualities. And to be honest, there is a huge economic crisis in the US. By the way, I have a PhD from a top school in my field and I don't have a 100% secure job in the future myself. The money just isn't there. I have lots of people who would like to hire me, but can't until they get a grant.

 

Anyway, don't put on an air of desperation. If you don't want to go back to india, don't. I'm just afraid if you run around, bending over backwards, and you happen to get married, you're going to have to do the same thing to "keep him" and stay married to him. That's very worrisome, Tinu.

[annie24]

ps - this is also something to keep in mind on your job interviews - play yourself up! sell yourself! when they say, 'you didn't go to harvard,' say something like, 'true, but having a degree from harvard doesn't necessarily mean that they are the best choice. first off, do you want a wife, or are you looking to hire someone for your company? a woman may have a degree from harvard, but does that mean she will be a good wife and support you when you are having hard times, rub your feet after a long day at work, be loyal and loving to you? bring you coffee or tea in bed?" (remember, men love to be cared for!!)

 

"besides, my school has an excellent program in.... and ..... and is known for ......" Same thing for a recruiter. Point out the good qualities/skills you bring and what your program has trained you to do.

 

A professor once told me about how they were looking to hire a new assistant professor, they had a great resume, degree from harvard, but when they interviewed the person, it was clear that person had no idea what they were talking about and it was clear they had been 'coached.' actually, i've heard this many times. i'm not knocking harvard here, just pointing out that there is much more to a candidate than what their diploma says.

[LAYAAN]

Yes, I understand that. Its good practice to sell yourself up when it comes to professional life. No recruiter has yet asked me about what school did you go to. They all are interested in training and experience. Nothing else really. When it comes to personal life, I do speak positively and enthusiastically about prospects of my degree and where I see it going, but I don't tell them stuff that is not there. Mostly it comes to choice of a husband, I will not deal with sarcastic Qs by men because that shows personality. If it was a professional situation, I either ignore it or return it.

 

What you are pointing out here is the basic difference in what these men want in a wife. Do they want a good person? may be. But that does not take precedence over whether she has a job or not. So when it comes to choosing wife in arranged market, they fish for that woman among those who already have a job or who already are SW engineers. That doesn't mean that they don't want a good person, it just means that they want someone who is a good person AND a SW engineer AND who has a job AND a hot body, etc. Its all about personal choice. I don't tell people what they should look for. I meet people where they are at. I'm positive and honest, but I will not sell myself when it comes to marriage market. Its a personal relationship and I don't believe in selling myself in that kinda market. When it comes to professional life, I'm proactive, assertive, this and that. But when it comes to men I dont want to sell myself. If you don't like me, if you have doubts about my earning ability, if you can't put 2 n 2 together, how am I going to convince you? and do you need to be convinced really? All facts are out there on the paper. I'm sitting in front of you, you can see me. What else is there to say? Ask me Qs I will give honest answers. But I will not make false claims because I don't want to hear complaints later.

[LAYAAN]

This is just so annoying!

This girl from the next door lab is living here with her sister. They are cooking in the small kitchenette in our wing at this hour. Why? This kitchenette has no windows, the only exit from that kitchen is into the hallway. The fire alarm in the hallway is extremely sensitive and many times it has been set off by girls cooking in that kitchen. Normally I go and tell the residents not to cook there at night. Its almost 12 midnight. This girl is cooking and baking there with her sister with the kitchen door open. The RA of my floor is asleep. I can't even wake her up to report this girl's misbehavior. How much brain does it take to understand not to do something like this? And if anyone would tell her anything... she is going to make an issue out of it.

[annie24]

Don't get too upset, it's just not worth it. Are there rules about when you are allowed to cook? Just wear ear-plugs and try not to let the small stuff bug you.

 

But I understand. I was so annoyed yesterday. I was in our building's small cafeteria/food store. there was a couple there being all cutesy and cuddling and blocking the aisle, making it hard to move past them, pick up your food, etc. ugh.

[LAYAAN]

Same thing happened this morning. She again was cooking at 7am in the same kitchen. There are such kitchenettes on several wings. The residents have been told that 10pm-7am is quiet time, so if they have to cook during those hours, use the main kitchen which is big and not close to any residential room. But this girl is defiant. Thats just her personality. If I would go to tell her anything last night, she would take it as a personal attack and raise her voice. Thats what she does best. Once a fire alarm in any wing is set off, the entire building has to evacuate. Then we sit outside for 1/2 hour or so. A lot of people suffer because of one person's negligence.

[annie24]

Well, 7 AM is fine. If that's the hours she can cook, then ok. i know it's annoying, but you won't be living in the dorm much longer, you know she's a brat, so don't bother to correct her. try to ignore her. you have more important things to worry about.

[LAYAAN]

you are right. I'm clearly not succeeding in getting over the friendship. I just do not want to see her outside professional world. But I've to and that is really annoying. I really want to come to peace about the broken friendship, but I'm failing at it. It bothers me that it still bothers me every time I see her. Like you mentioned I told myself the same thing yesterday. I have my thesis, 2nd paper, job search, pharmacy studies to take care of. Why am I spoiling my mood with her? I should not.

[annie24]

she's the least important thing in the world tinu. just remind yourself of that when you see her.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Annie. I will have to keep trying.