Thoughts, ramblings

[marshmlofluff]

I appreciate that some women read my journal and are supportive. But I can't stop wondering why men dont read my journal and leave comments? Is it that I talk about girly topics?

 

As far as blogging is concerned, I guess we all like to read about people like ourselves and how they deal with the same life situations--so like attracts like! My journal (before I took it down) was disproportionately populated by female academics, Indian female academics, and other INFJs.

 

I did have some men in the mix though.

[LAYAAN]

Thanks Marsh for your comment. Yes, I guess so.

[LAYAAN]

Last week was unproductive. Really. I didn't exercise. Didn't go to knitting club. The only good thing I did was cooking, dishes, and laundry. I have been cooking every weekend. That's a good thing. I'm using up items in my pantry and was able to keep the monthly expenditure low for this month.

I didn't get as much studying done as I wanted to. I don't like it. I really do have time. What I dont have is time management skills or discipline. Thats bad. I will go nowhere with that.

My computer won't play DVDs. So, I had to rush out and buy a DVD player. Now the trouble is I can't connect it to my TV from stone age. I have been telling myself not to start renting movies. I need to cut out unproductive activities from my life - watching TV/movies is one of them.

I really am trying to stay productive this weekend. I have to go to school tomorrow. I'm not happy about it. But I will get over it. I have to hang in there and stay productive.

Went to dental hygienist. Got my teeth squeaky clean. Hate the sight, noise, smell, machines, and of their tools. Just give me general and do what you need to do. I dont need to see whats going into my mouth. She was supportive. I get visibly nervous at the sight of those tools. We did it in 3 sessions... finally its over. I dont like going to the dentist at all. I take extra care of my teeth so I can avoid, but I have to go every 6 months and I do not like it.

[LAYAAN]

sorry duplicate post...

[LAYAAN]

I dont know how to stay positive with this whole marriage thing.

1) Guy I talked to said that he wants to get married by Summer. I said that I would be open to getting engaged if I met someone I really liked, but marriage within 3-4 months is really difficult because I'm really trying my best to graduate. I would prefer to wait until after graduation to actually have a wedding and get married. When I shared this with mom she said "You should not have said that. You should have just said "We will take as it comes."" I didnt' want to lie. I wanted to be honest. If someone tells me that they would prefer to get married by a certain time and if it absolutely doesn't suit me, I dont need to lead them or myself on. I called the guy, he asked me who I was and when I introduced myself again, he said that he would call me back. Never did.

2) The 2nd guy after pursuing me actively for a while, suddenly noticed that northern CA is too far away from southern CA. He said "We have nothing in common except our upbringing, our higher education, and our age (He is 40). I would rather look for someone local. Hope you understand."

sigh.... I'm tired. Tired of getting turned down. Tired of even trying. Hate all this.

[annie24]

well, your mom has a point - theoretically, you could get married while in grad school (sure, even your last year!) obviously, you wouldn't be able to take a huge honeymoon, unless you go back to india. but since you said you don't have a graduation date just yet, i guess you may as well do as your mom says and 'play it by ear' if you meet a man with whom you are connecting.

[LAYAAN]

Annie, I understand what you are saying. But the 1st guy was in NY. How am I expected to meet someone who is that far? and take a decision to marry him within 3-4 months? The boy and girl need to meet and see if they like each other, they need to discuss important matters like finances, job, kids, where to live, etc. and agree. Then parents need to meet. Its too much along with wrapping up my PhD. Forget about honeymoon for a second. That is post-wedding. I'm really not in a position to make a decision this fast. Marriage is a difficult decision. I need some calmness of mind to take that decision.

[annie24]

Annie, I understand what you are saying. But the 1st guy was in NY. How am I expected to meet someone who is that far? and take a decision to marry him within 3-4 months? The boy and girl need to meet and see if they like each other, they need to discuss important matters like finances, job, kids, where to live, etc. and agree. Then parents need to meet. Its too much along with wrapping up my PhD. Forget about honeymoon for a second. That is post-wedding. I'm really not in a position to make a decision this fast. Marriage is a difficult decision. I need some calmness of mind to take that decision.

 

so.... that goes back to the question - is now the right time in your life to be on the matrimonial sites....?

[LAYAAN]

I'm asking myself that Q.... multiple times. My mom insisted that I talked to him. It was only a 1/2 hr call, first one and last one. The only way I can get to know what his timeline was to talk to him about it. I feel sad. I feel like I'm trapped in my PhD. I can't go anywhere. Most men that are seriously marriage-minded are quickly leaving. I really want to get married and settle down. But I also dont want to rush the decision and repent later. When I talked to the guy, I said "Consider the logistics. How many times can we meet in 3-4 months? I'm going to lab almost every weekend because weekdays are not cutting it anymore. I still have pending work to do."

Annie, am I being unreasonable?

[Ellie2006]

Tinu, I dont think you're being unreasonable, BUT I do think you may be ... kind of in denial about whether you want to get married or not.

 

Maybe subconsciously you dont want to get married -- hence you are setting up these roadblocks which you KNOW these men will not be able to pass.

 

I do think it may be wise to ask yourself if you REALLY want to get married through the matrimonial site OR if you're turning to the site bc you think it is the only viable way for you to meet potential mates right now.

 

The way I see it, if you want to get married through the site, you gotta play by their rules -- i.e. see these men's qualifications and see if you two "can be" compatible. If so, you then just take the plunge.

 

BUT I see you keep trying to break "the rules" by entering more restrictions into the equation, the biggest one being, I cannot deviate from my timeline to graduate.

 

From what (little) I know about these sites, the people on here are looking to get married ASAP as long as the potential mate looks promising on paper. So if you have all these rigid restrictions about when you can get married and who you want to marry, you have to ask yourself, why am I on these sites at all? Is it only to reassure myself that I am still (for the lack of a better term) "marketable" in the marriage market?

 

Just a thought, Tinu.

[annie24]

tell them that you can find time to meet them if they fly out to see you. a man who is serious about marriage will do that. you can take one weekend off of work. it will help. you can't work 24/7.

[LAYAAN]

Ellie, I have written about this before. But just to answer your Q... no, I'm not trying to see how marketable I really am in this market. In fact I know that I'm not marketable in this market at all.

There are men that will wait even in this market. They are just few. And I have made it crystal clear on the website that someone with a more relaxed schedule would be a better match at this time for me.

Why am I on this market then? Because I dont' fit into American dating system. Dating for years and years. I can't date for more than a year, 1.5 years.

[Ellie2006]

Sorry about all the speculations Tinu. I hadnt realized you had addressed these issues before....

 

Anyways, if there are men who are more amenable to a "relaxed" schedule, I do think there is a point in staying on the matrimonial sites. It's good to have options open.

[LAYAAN]

Thanks Ellie,

This is why I decided I dont fit into western dating system - (Marsh has written a great post on this before. I'm thankful.)

1) I'm looking for similarities (middle-class, believes in marriage, wants to get married, parents still married (preferred), educated (at least a BS), has a job or finishing up higher education)

2) I'm open to dating within my limits. My areas of trouble are -

1. I am afraid of getting intimate with a man. I tend to freak out. Physical intimacy clouds my judgment of a person's character, status of our relationship. I tend to get clingy and emotionally dependent on the person. I feel vulnerable. I dont' like to feel this way.

2. I dont want to move in and be in a live-in relationship with a guy. Again, vulnerability factor. The guy may not feel accountable, he may not marry me. I have a simple rule here 'If I'm performing duties of a wife, give me the title of a wife'.

3. I'm not interested in dating for several years. Age factor. Not interested in wasting time in relationships that don't lead to marriage. (I understand that each relationship won't lead to marriage. I get that. But I'm more cautious because I feel that time is not on my side.) I'm not open to dating a man beyond 1 year and not know where the relationship is going, or not have a clear idea of whether he wants to marry me.

3) Distance factor - Most American men I talked to wanted to find someone local. I'm not in an isolated place. I know that. But I couldn't find relationship-worthy American men in a 100 mile radius on EH. Sometimes its just timing and luck.

 

What is it that I want? I want to get married in next 1-2 years to a decent, compatible guy. White or Indian doesn't make a difference really at this point.

 

I spent 3 years in a dead-ended relationship. Sure, I learned my lesson, grew up, blah blah, but I wasted my time (age 26-29). Spent next 1 year grieving, healing. So total 4 years wasted. I would cut myself some slack and say that it was still alright because I now know what I should not do or what I can't handle. I was studying during this entire time, so I would say okay... I wasn't going to get married during that time anyways. I don't believe in delaying getting married just because you want to reach a certain time mark. In other words, I'm not interested in dating for 2-3 years when there is no real reason to delay marriage (unless the guy is finishing up education, doesn't have a job, or I haven't graduated, etc.) If we are finishing up education, etc. then it makes sense to wait. Not otherwise. Of course, I know I have to invest decent time to get to know the person. I think a year is a decent time. We can get engaged then, work towards getting married. I need to see progress in a relationship. I tend to get weary if I dont see that.

So, these are my reasons why I'm still on arranged marriage market (AMM) even if I dont like it. What matters to me is marriage. I'm keen on not wasting time. Why? because the odds are already against me as a woman in AMM. The truth is that women dont' have much choice there (IMO). My not being a physician or a SW engineer weighs heavily against me in AMM already. There are men there even upto age 38-40 that I met, but they prefer younger women. Its not about whether its right or not. The truth is that a younger girl can replace me in a second. So, I am not interested in wasting my time dating American men hoping that it will lead to marriage and letting decent marriage-minded Indian guys go.

[Magpies]

Hey Tinu - Annie's right. If they're serious, these guys will come out to meet you. You shouldn't have to do all the running around especially because you have so much work going on at the moment.

 

You talk about 'decent marriage-minded Indian men' on the matrimonial site but from what you've written in your journal you really don't seem to have come accross many of those. Most of them have sounded like complete jerks. Have you considered trying dating sites? You might be more likely to find an Indian who thinks like you on one of those and you can make it absolutely clear that you want a serious relationship with marriage as the goal.

 

I have to ask though - are you sure you actually want to be married? It might not end up being quite what you're hoping for... particularly if you do end up with an Indian man. I have to hold my hand up here and admit that I'm a bit biased - I know that there are some good Indian men out there but from what I've seen happen to friends and particularly to my cousins I have been put right off going anywhere near an Indian man (even if he's nice, it's fairly likely that the family will be crazy/interfering). Even the ones that are supposedly egalitarian and have perhaps grown up in the West often show their true colours after marriage.

 

Are you particularly keen to have children? From what I've read in your journal you seem quite ambivalent. If you don't want children, then is there any rush?

[LAYAAN]

Hey Tinu - Annie's right. If they're serious, these guys will come out to meet you. You shouldn't have to do all the running around especially because you have so much work going on at the moment.

Yes, thats the goal.

You talk about 'decent marriage-minded Indian men' on the matrimonial site but from what you've written in your journal you really don't seem to have come accross many of those. Most of them have sounded like complete jerks. Have you considered trying dating sites? You might be more likely to find an Indian who thinks like you on one of those and you can make it absolutely clear that you want a serious relationship with marriage as the goal.

Yes, I've to agree with this. Its true that I've been turned down, but I haven't found what I've been looking for either. I went on E-Harmony hoping to have a better experience. I didn't. Indian men there (that are raised in the US) were too concerned that I was after them for a quick citizenship (which I'm not). I was open to meeting non-Indian men, but just didn't feel the connection. Most kept me hanging.

 

I have to ask though - are you sure you actually want to be married? It might not end up being quite what you're hoping for... particularly if you do end up with an Indian man. I have to hold my hand up here and admit that I'm a bit biased - I know that there are some good Indian men out there but from what I've seen happen to friends and particularly to my cousins I have been put right off going anywhere near an Indian man (even if he's nice, it's fairly likely that the family will be crazy/interfering). Even the ones that are supposedly egalitarian and have perhaps grown up in the West often show their true colours after marriage.

Yes, I've seen that the family was too interfering in most cases. Yes, even in some Indian men raised here that was the case.

 

Are you particularly keen to have children? From what I've read in your journal you seem quite ambivalent. If you don't want children, then is there any rush?

No, I'm not keen on having kids. The reason for rush is this - again it goes back to wanting marriage. If I meet a decent man, everything is great, but he wants marriage and kids I would rather go that route than waiting forever for a man who wants marriage but doesnt want kids. I have noticed that men normally want both or none. Its a package deal. Most men that want marriage, also want kids.

[Magpies]

It's really difficult - I know. Trying to find someone that feels the same way you do about these things. I suppose I'm just scared that you'll end up with some idiot off the matrimonial site who doesn't treat you well. Certainly from the men you've described, none of them sound like good catches. I also think you sell yourself too short - you're far too intelligent and sweet for a lot of the crap you've put up with from some of these men.

[Magpies]

Oh btw - this is dancing magpie.

[LAYAAN]

It's really difficult - I know. Trying to find someone that feels the same way you do about these things. I suppose I'm just scared that you'll end up with some idiot off the matrimonial site who doesn't treat you well. Certainly from the men you've described, none of them sound like good catches. I also think you sell yourself too short - you're far too intelligent and sweet for a lot of the crap you've put up with from some of these men.

Hey dancing magpie.... how are you doing my friend? hugs... Its been some time since you posted on my journal. Thank you for your posts.

Yes, there is always a risk of getting together with someone that doesn't treat you well, Indian or non-Indian. The risk is much greater in Indian arranged marriages. So, you look for similarities in upbringing, education, etc. Most importantly, spend some time with them, stay prayerful that God guides you in the right direction, and listen to your gut. Nothing is fool-proof unfortunately. We can only do our best to reduce the probability of getting together with someone we shouldn't be with. People who know me personally (including online friends like yourself and Marsh) have been telling me to definitely consider dating an American instead. I can't overcome my fears about American men. Thank you for the last line... you are kind. I appreciate it.

[penelope13]

I know your ultimate goal is to get married, but on the other hand sometimes it's a reward in and of itself just to have someone beside you regardless if it will ultimately lead to marriage, because you have the opportunity to enjoy the company of someone while you are going through all the things that currently keep you from getting married right away. You spend years doing your PhD, unfortunately most of those years you needed to face by yourself. It could have made everyday a bit easier, more enjoyable, more relaxing to have someone, without worrying what the future might bring. Doing/ finishing up a PhD is stressful enough. Why make life even more complicated by trying to find a husband at the same time? Why not wait till you at least know exactly when your PhD is over (when you have your defense scheduled for example)? Although I also want to get married some time, I don't consider my past relationships that didn't lead to marriage as a waste, because they enriched my life for as long as they lasted.

 

You met someone with potential (the NY guy), but it is not going anywhere because you don't know yet when you will graduate. You could save yourself a lot of disappointment (IMHO) if you waited at least till you have a better idea about your PhD schedule.

[marshmlofluff]

Hi Tinu! Thanks for the comments about how you found my post useful. I am glad I could be of help.

 

When the opportunity to meet someone compatible does come up, I don't think you need to say up front "I can't think of getting married until such and such time, non-negotiable." Maybe once you meet the man you will change your mind. Maybe once he meets you he will feel like he needs more time. I think that if you genuinely want to get married, you may want to re-consider pushing people away for scheduling reasons before anything even develops.

 

I agree entirely with Annie, also. In retrospect, I could have married as a PhD student, although at the time I saw no way. Yes, it might have taken a little longer to graduate, but that is the thing...if you want something, usually you have to give up something else to get it.

 

As regards dating as opposed to the arranged marriage system, I will just say this: Sometimes one wastes more time by trying to be careful not to waste time than by actually beginning the action that one fears is a time-waster.

[LAYAAN]

Thanks Penny.

I agree with you. I can't tell you how many times I thought to myself "Man, I should have dated during my PhD instead of running after an arranged marriage. I would have at least had some support."

I also understand what you mean by no relationship is a waste of time. It enriches your life. Sure, thats a positive way of looking at it. I'm not particularly unhappy about the breakups, especially the 1st one. But I'm sad that I wasted fruitful years when I was young and more marketable. Sigh... I cant get back those years.

No, I didn't meet anyone from NY. I only talked with him on phone. I didnt' want to meet because our time frames dont match. He wants to get married by summer. I can't take marriage decision this quickly.

Yes, I'm working towards finishing up my PhD. So, right now that is the focus. And I'm not even meeting men that have short deadlines.

[annie24]

well, like that guy, although he says he wants to be married by summer, i would still give him a chance. i mean, at least meet. i agree that if he likes you enough, he would be willing to wait a few extra months, etc... no need for hard and fast deadlines, especially if you do not have a defense date.

[LAYAAN]

Marsh, thank you for your post. I agree especially with the last paragraph. I have been thinking about it.

I want to mention something.

It puts immense pressure on me when a man gives me a short timeline. 3 months is too short considering (i) the situation I'm in (ii) the distance between so cal and NY.

Something that I have learned from experience is that people dont' give out deadlines for no reason. Normally when they say something like this, they mean it. Especially men. Either they have someone else in the running or they are coming to the end of their rope, getting impatient, have other things lined up and just want to get married and get it out of their way. I say this from 3 previous examples.

1) the UK guy (my ex) started putting immense pressure on me around Jan 2007. I remember. I didn't believe in him that if I wasn't available, he would get up and marry whoever. What happened? July 2007, he got married.

2) the guy from northern CA (I have written about him in my journal). He said in Sept 2010 that he desires to get married by Dec 2010 and hopefully cut the umbilical cord of his baby in March 2011. When I said that 3 months is too short time for me considering my reasons, he simply closed the match and moved on. I don't find his profile online anymore.

3) I talked to a guy from EH. He clearly told me that he is "accepting applications" until Nov 2008. He will short list candidates then and will get married by Dec 2008 and he probably did. I couldn't find his profile on EH in Jan 2009.

Lets consider something. Everyone here knows how badly I want to get married. Am I giving people deadlines? Am I saying I want to get married by summer 2011? Noone gives deadlines until they have something cooking along side. And definitely not such short deadlines.

Again, I'm not suggesting what people should or should not do. But you know the Indian system of marriage. I'm someone who needs peace of mind to finalize marriage decision. I can't take such decision when the guy is telling me "I told you I need to get married by summer, didn't I?" Whats the point in meeting then? I didnt' say I wont get married. I only said "I would be open to getting engaged, but I would really like to have a wedding after I finish my PhD because its too much pressure on me in addition to PhD." I can break an engagement, but I can't break marriage so easily. Its not like I'm running away. What difference does one month make? Also, understand something. My parents are not here. My visa has expired, so I can't just get up and go to India and come back whenever I want. When are the parents going to meet? When is my mom going to get to see the guy? I have to take care of all this. After knowing all this, if the guy wants to move on, so be it.

[LAYAAN]

well, like that guy, although he says he wants to be married by summer, i would still give him a chance. i mean, at least meet. i agree that if he likes you enough, he would be willing to wait a few extra months, etc... no need for hard and fast deadlines, especially if you do not have a defense date.

He has moved on. I called him. He asked who I was. I had to re-introduce myself. He said he will call back. Never did.

Its true that I dont have a defense date yet, but the graduation is at the end of May. If I have to graduate then I have to submit thesis, proposal, and 2nd paper. Get the committee to agree for my graduation. The biggest unknown is my 2nd paper and what the committee decides to do about that. If they decide to hold me back for that or not, I dont know.