Thoughts, ramblings

[marshmlofluff]

not looking for anything anymore. Just feel like giving up. Feel exhausted, worn out. Feel hopeless.

I keep going back to square one and ask myself why do I even want to get married? I don't hope to find companionship in arranged marriage, especially with the kinda men I've met so far.

 

When I have felt that way, I have taken a break from dating for a month or so. It really helped.

 

Btw remember--one meeting isn't enough to know someone; you and the guy will grow together and your personalities will influence each other. Over time he may come to value the things you value, and you may come to see his points of view also.

 

I am not saying one should jump into a marriage where the guy disagrees on something as fundamental as whether or not to have kids, but I am saying that if the basics line up, I imagine love and compatibility can grow, if you make an effort.

[LAYAAN]

Oh yes, I agree with you. But I don't get a second meeting.

One meeting is enough for them to know that I'm not the kinda woman they want. I only answer finance Qs in 1st meeting. The answers are not satisfactory to these men. They keep moving on.

[annie24]

but you know what? that is fine if they move on. arranged marriage (not that i profess to be an expert on it), but it seems to be more of a partnership based on mutual goals and values. you know, if his goals don't match your goals, or his life path doesn't match yours, better to know that right away.

 

i think when you finish your PhD and you get a job where you can say at a first meeting (should the man ask) that you make $85,000 a year in a very stable profession, i think they will find you a more attractive candidate. just sayin.....

[marshmlofluff]

Oh yes, I agree with you. But I don't get a second meeting.

One meeting is enough for them to know that I'm not the kinda woman they want. I only answer finance Qs in 1st meeting. The answers are not satisfactory to these men. They keep moving on.

 

Hmm. I don't know how you can answer these men's questions in a way that relieves their doubts, but maybe there is a good way. Maybe you can answer in a way that makes it sound like you have laid out a very clear career plan post-PhD, or at least thought about it.

 

Otherwise--one more reason to finish your PhD before looking seriously.

[LAYAAN]

I can't stay asleep for >4 hours. I wake up in the middle of almost every night. Stare into darkness. Sometimes call mom, take a walk, cry. I am going deeper into depression. I have to see my psychiatrist today. I honestly don't know how long I can hang on. I'm tired of putting a fake smile on my face and making it look like everything is okay.

 

I really yearn for companionship. I am tired of coming to an empty home everyday. I've no personal life what so ever. Its only studying. Going to school for PhD and coming home and studying for pharmacy exams. I've begun to hate it. There is a sense of feeling lost, hopelessness and I don't know how to cure that.

[LAYAAN]

Hmm. I don't know how you can answer these men's questions in a way that relieves their doubts, but maybe there is a good way. Maybe you can answer in a way that makes it sound like you have laid out a very clear career plan post-PhD, or at least thought about it.

 

Otherwise--one more reason to finish your PhD before looking seriously.

I do talk about this. I don't open the topic, but if they ask I answer properly. The truth is that they don't know anything about my field. If I tell them anything, they don't get it, they don't want to countercheck it. They don't appreciate the planning, etc. They just move on. Its easier to move on Marsh than to do some homework and ask intelligent Qs. You get only 1 chance. How much professional information are you going to give these men in 1st meeting itself?

[marshmlofluff]

I can't stay asleep for >4 hours. I wake up in the middle of almost every night. Stare into darkness. Sometimes call mom, take a walk, cry. I am going deeper into depression. I have to see my psychiatrist today. I honestly don't know how long I can hang on. I'm tired of putting a fake smile on my face and making it look like everything is okay.

 

I really yearn for companionship. I am tired of coming to an empty home everyday. I've no personal life what so ever. Its only studying. Going to school for PhD and coming home and studying for pharmacy exams. I've begun to hate it. There is a sense of feeling lost, hopelessness and I don't know how to cure that.

 

I felt like this myself toward the end of grad school. I was lonely. I just eventually pushed through it...there wasn't much else I could do. Things never got as bad again as they were then.

 

There are many ways you can have a personal life and fill your life with things besides studying than floundering around the marriage market. Have you looked into the local Indian Student Association? Maybe that is a good way to make friends.

[anu1560]

Hey Tinu. I have been reading your journal for sometimes now. Just wanted to tell you. Hang on there.

 

I am also trying to finish my PhD. I am 31 and I am un/fortunately Indian (yeah thats how I feel about me being Indian now...ALL CONFUSED...neither fit in western nor in traditional Indian set up).

 

I keep reading your journal because I find us pretty much on the same boat but with a little different boat accessories. I know exactly what you are feeling. Have felt that myself quite many times. Felt awfully lonely many times (although I sleep like a dead log, the moment I am in bed). There have been days I didn't leave my apartment for 2 weeks at a stretch because I was too depressed and I slept 16 hours a day Felt no motivation to work because I was unhappy in my personal life. Sometimes I have this weird yearning for a bf just so he would carry my laundry bag and I will carry the little detergent or help me in moving my stuff or peel the potatoes/onions which I hate to do May be because I saw other couples doing these things together and I wanted that. Not that I cannot carry a laundry bag or cut potatoes. I can. But I wanted that companionship. So I know what you feel.

 

I don't really want to preach about philosophies I believe in. But I will still bore you with them. It really helped me. Someone told me once to remember 2 things when in difficult times.

 

A) If you look around, you will see, there are people who are in worst condition/troubles/difficulties than you. When you see other people's trouble, your own trouble will look not that big.

 

I actually didn't have to go really far to see people in deep trouble. I just checked some eNA threads. No, I am not saying you enjoy other people's bad times. Sometimes when I would read those, I would feel really sad for those people. I cannot even imagine what many people go through. But reading those sad stories made me feel so much better about my own condition. All of a sudden I started feeling lucky not to be in better situation than these troubled people. That didn't by any chance solve my problems. But it made it look a little less severe to me.

 

B) This phase will also get over. It will not always be like this.

 

Just wanted to say hang on there. You will get through this. Its just a stupid PhD. This lonely time of yours will be gone too. Take it as a bad phase which you will get over. Try to get your PhD done so you can be sure that you can be financially-visa wise secure by yourself. And may be then try to see what you can do for your personal life.Thats how I try to convince myself when I feel lonely. Being a grad student is hard. It is hard to date people and start a relationship and being Indian doesn't make it any easier.

 

And honestly speaking, no man or money can ever give you the security that you can give yourself. I consider dogs to be the most trustworthy of all the living beings and even they die and leave you. I am not saying that you cannot trust men. Its just that you need to make yourself trust yourself that you can be happy just by yourself. And if there is someone comes along with whom you can share your sorrow and happiness thats an icing on top of the cake. But you have to create your own cake first.

 

I know it is easier said than done. Even I cannot follow these things. But I try. I have my bad days. I b***h here in eNA those days. I also feel sometimes the desperation to have companionship. But since it is not coming any sooner, what can I do? Finish my PhD because it is a big hurdle before my personal life right now.

 

Please hang on there. Don't give up. Not yet.

[marshmlofluff]

If you don't mind my interrupting a serious conversation for a moment, like Tinu and Anu I am a 31 year old Indian academic woman too--wow; I had no idea there were so many of us on eNA, and all three of us have journals! The Internet is cool that way!

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Anu for your comment and support.

Yes, its rough. I really appreciate the support. Good luck to you too! Take care. We all need to support each other, we all need to hang together, we can get through this. We will one day look back at this phase of our life and thank God that we didn't give up. I sincerely hope that it is all worth it.

[LAYAAN]

If you don't mind my interrupting a serious conversation for a moment, like Tinu and Anu I am a 31 year old Indian academic woman too--wow; I had no idea there were so many of us on eNA, and all three of us have journals! The Internet is cool that way!

Yes, I agree. The internet has made it possible for people to come together even if they don't meet in real life. We can share experiences, provide support. Its awesome. It wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

[LAYAAN]

I have been reading this thread on ENA about "pool of men drying up". I am going through some of that stuff myself.

I used to think that western part of the world is significantly different. After having lived here and seeing how people get married. I'm not sure I hold the same belief anymore.

Marriage is tough in any culture. The more you age, the more difficult it gets. USA is still on the earth only and hence the rules for social life are not all that different.

I used to think that the women here can get married even if they have kids. Not always true. I had a rude awakening when my 2nd ex (I hate to refer him as my ex because I never felt that he was my BF. I never felt he was present in the relationship. We were BF/GF for only a month, prior to that we were dating for 3 months) and another man that I went out on date with said to me "If I want a child, I can make my own. Why do I need to take care of someone else's child? I don't care how hot/successful/rich a woman is, I don't want to be with someone who has a child."

Even here when it comes to marriage, people ask finance Qs (why am I blaming Indian men in arranged market?). Believe it or not, business component in marriage is strong and can affect you. Well what about emotional component? What about feeling like you belong in that relationship? What about feeling like someone has your back? I know for sure that in Indian marriage this is too much to ask for. Before you can know you get busy with kids and packing lunches and driving them to different activities. I think kids spoil the bliss and calmness in a marriage relationship. Not intentionally, but thats just the nature of having kids and raising them. I fear having kids. I fear having to provide for them. I fear losing peace and freedom. I really do.

Anyways, I am realizing that I need to stop running around and reinventing the wheel. I read "Become your own matchmaker" and Patti Stanger practices tough love. Some of the facts she has mentioned in the book are eye-opening. Does love really exist? Do we even know what is love? If the standard of love is God then no, only He can love you the way he does. If you are lucky your parents will extend some portion of that love to you. If you are even more lucky your spouse would. If you are super lucky, your friends and family would. Thats why I believe that really all you have is yourself and your God to fall back on. Well, 1st your God. He never leaves you and if you haven't abused your body and mind, then you have yourself. Anything in addition to this is bonus/blessing.

[LAYAAN]

I recently went through a 6-8 deep hypnosis experience. I wanted to give this a try. I was curious. I was skeptical about the whole thing.

I had a successful hypnotherapy session. I went into deep trans, I met my spirit guide. I saw my spirit guide and I can honestly say I sensed what God's love feels like. That is the experience, I would like to have over and over. I would die for that experience. I didn't want to let go of my guide. I felt that connection I had never felt with anyone before. I couldn't stop crying. I have no clue how long I stayed in that state. I remember feeling rejuvenated just to see him, to be with him. For the first time in my life, I felt that I belong there, I felt connected, I felt I could trust without any inhibitions, that he has my back. That was a state of sheer joy. I have no name for that experience.

I hope to practice meditation, learn to go deeper into trans and connect with my spirit guide more often.

[marshmlofluff]

Well what about emotional component? What about feeling like you belong in that relationship? What about feeling like someone has your back? I know for sure that in Indian marriage this is too much to ask for.

 

I suppose the Indian ideal is that you establish compatibility on the basics, marry, and then build the emotional component. How well that works in practice, who knows. OTOH there is a very high divorce rate in the Western world, so the Western way doesn't appear to work too well either.

 

Regardless of how you get married, I think marriage is probably just...difficult, in any culture.

 

But I think I see an issue, which others have mentioned.

 

What you are describing and what you want seems to be a Western-style marriage with a man with a Western-style mindset: He appreciates your (non-software-engineering) education, and doesn't really care about having kids or how much money you make.

 

Except that you want to find those things on an arranged marriage time scale, and on the arranged market, and the guy has to be Indian.

 

Realistically, this is a problem...the two sets of things you want are difficult to reconcile with each other. The problem is that if you want a marriage based on personal compatibility, you have to invest the time in a relationship, and take the risk of wasting time and getting your heart broken: I have not found any way around that.

 

One solution I have not heard you mention is this: How about trying to meet an Indian guy OFF the arranged market? How about going to your school's Indian Student Association and just trying to meet guys there? Garbas, movie nights, etc.--if you live in SoCa, there are probably loads and loads of lonely Indian guy PhD students in your area. What if you were to meet one? Being Indian he probably would not drag things on for years without committing.

[anu1560]

Yes, I agree. The internet has made it possible for people to come together even if they don't meet in real life. We can share experiences, provide support. Its awesome. It wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

 

Yeah I know. I was surprised myself. Three Indian female academics with three different approach to life. Internet is really great.

 

Tinu, meditation does work. I have been trying to do it too. It again doesn't solve problem but it does make you more calm and peaceful.

 

And somebody should do a research on PhD and depression. I am sure positive relationship would be established between the two.

[anu1560]

 

One solution I have not heard you mention is this: How about trying to meet an Indian guy OFF the arranged market? How about going to your school's Indian Student Association and just trying to meet guys there? Garbas, movie nights, etc.--if you live in SoCa, there are probably loads and loads of lonely Indian guy PhD students in your area. What if you were to meet one? Being Indian he probably would not drag things on for years without committing.

 

What about link removed or bharatmatrimony. Hehe. I have tried that before. You can find some nice Indian guys there who have a very western approach to life but wants a quick marriage. I find the website a compromise between the two cultures. There are creeps there too. But some of those guys are actually nice and are not typical Male Chauvinist Pi*s that you are trying to avoid. And try to avoid those profiles which have been posted by 'mommies' and 'daddies'. Because those are typical arranged marriage profiles. And I would suggest contacting people who are are paid members as I understand that only people who are with serious intentions will pay money. That way you can avoid getting creeps. And I am sure you will find loads of people from SoCa as I found quite a bit of people from the tiny 'village' I live in.

 

And as Marsh said ISA is great place to meet Indian men. Also Asha for Education is great place to meet guys. In Asha for Education you may find some nice guys with lot of compassion. That has been my experience with that group. May be try volunteering to there fund raising events. They always are in need of help. Thats a great place to make friends as well as bf's who will be into serious stuff and not some wishy washy stuff. And it is a good cause too. I am dead sure there is Asha for Education group in your area. If you cannot find it, look for them in Yahoo groups. There must be yahoo groups of them asking for help. Even if you cannot find a LTR, atleast you won't be lonely.

 

And I apologize. I am used to using bad words. Trying to quit saying bad words.

[LAYAAN]

I think this is what the problem is. I was myself thinking about it. The key issues are (and like you have pointed out) 1) I want something that is almost impossible to find in arranged market 2) Yet I want a relatively quick marriage which is what arranged marriage system brings you. I'm afraid of getting emotionally involved, wasting time and getting my heart broken in western dating world.

 

You suggest meeting an Indian guy off arranged market. It may be possible, but not always successful. I am not being negative here.

These are the challenges -

1) I'm not a social person. You will normally not find me attending parties. I'm an introvert and such events drain me.

2) Most Indian men in this country are raised in India, thus they always keep a back door open even if they "date" you. I have seen this in many many cases. Guys date girls here. Give into the safety of arranged marriage system. Say that their parents want them to marry the other girl instead and they are gone. So, the guy being Indian doesn't help. He needs to have a western mindset. Its possible to find a guy like that, may be someone who is raised here. I tried to. Their parents interfered and asked these men "Marry a SW engineer instead."

3) Availability of time - My PhD has only been a race of hurdles. 1) passing classes 2) passing comprehensive exam 3) trying to get a paper accepted. I have put myself through the challenge of working with a very difficult PI on a poorly designed project. As though this wasn't enough, I also took steady steps to get licensed as a pharmacist during this time. Hence, honestly I was left with almost no money, no time, no energy to invest into anything else. For the longest time I have been in the "survival mode". I will be very much relieved once my paper gets accepted and I pass pharmacy boards. The direction of life would be much clear.

When you are in state like mine when almost all things are out of your control, you become very selective of what you put your energy into. I put all my time and energy into school and finishing step 1 and step 2 of pharmacy instead. Well, thats not the complete truth. I put some significant portion of my emotional energy into worrying and bashing myself for not making it in arranged market. I did put considerable energy in 1st 2 years into a long distance relationship that did not work. The guy was wrong for me.

 

So, this is my story. What I need is to be patient with myself. Understand that challenges I'm facing and not worry too much about marriage. Stay focused on graduating and getting out, passing my exams. At least 1 chapter would be over.

[LAYAAN]

Thank you Anu.

No, don't worry about bad words. Express yourself freely. They control what words you can use here anyways.

 

Like I mentioned in my reply to Marsh's post. I really haven't made much effort to meet the right person other than enrolling myself on Eharmony (in past) and now link removed. Yes, I'm getting some response from Shaadi, but again its challenging. I recently closed >20 matches. These are people who expressed interest in my profile >1 month ago and nothing. I have been in "survival mode" for a loong time and I put my energy into PhD program and getting my pharmacy license. I have been very selfish with my time. In the hind sight I can honestly say, my actions tell that marriage was not on my high priority list. Had it been so, I would have made supreme effort to find a man. Whatever little effort that I did, I stood in the wrong market. Hence that effort did not pay off. Now, here I'm, bashing myself, worrying about my future, feeling like an old woman. I should not do that because I really didn't give it my all.

 

Yes, I stay away from profiles that are posted by parents and have very little stuff in them.

 

I also have mentioned in my profile about the timeline and that I would like to interact and get to know each other before tieing the knot.

 

I will look into the volunteering Asha for education. I didn't know about it before.

[LAYAAN]

Hey Anu,

I looked up their website. I found a chapter close to me. I'm emailing them.

Thanks again.

[anu1560]

Ok. Great. Here is a start for new friendships, a good cause and feeling not so lonely. These people also train for running marathon. And it is free training. Thats one of there ways to raise funds for kids in India. So four cause at one go. Staying fit, meeting new people who have some compassion, helping someone and not feeling so lonely.

 

I understand you are a little introvert person and not so social. So am I. So force yourself out of your cave. Try with 'once a week'. That still gives you ample time to work on your PhD. Also if you force yourself to go there for volunteering, someone will come and talk to you. Heehee. So less effort.

[LAYAAN]

There are some positive things happening on my side.

- My PI is atleast open to considering writing manuscript the other way. He didn't fight me today.

- My 3rd PI is about to have a meeting with 1 of the professors who is well published on this campus. I talked to him today about the possibility of talking about our study. He said that he will. I'm going to pray about it that he doesn't just forget.

- My writing teacher gave me feedback on our paper and most of it is really positive.

- I sent my manuscript to another professor for review yesterday.

- I am going on Saturday to meet a running club official. So we can recruit more subjects for our study. He seemed very interested in our study.

- My father is home again and his weight is increased by 2 pounds.

- I've started to pray regularly again.

 

I'm so thankful today that I have hope to hang on to. I'm really happy today. I have something to look forward to.

[LAYAAN]

Yesterday I went for a 5 mile walk in a really good neighborhood late evening. I had a great time. Felt rejuvenated. Came home and slept like a rock.

I should go there more often.

[LAYAAN]

Yesterday I went with my friend. She wanted to buy some clothes. I went only window-shopping with her. My friend's husband has opened a new clinic. He is a dentist. I have known my friend for years now. I met her when she was married, then had a child. Yesterday she said to me "I'm telling you again, don't worry about marriage. Its a big lie. And if you do get married, please keep your job/some source of independent income. I really want to buy this pair of shoes. I can't even if its only $12. My husband has given me only $20. Financial independence gives you freedom to talk in marriage. You can't talk back when you don't make any money. Eat all you want now, have fun now. Don't wait hoping your life will be better once you get married. Not saying that everyone's marriage turns out like mine. I really wish I can leave my child into day-care and go live my life the way I want. There is no going back once you have a child."

I never thought I would hear this from my friend. I thought she was happy. Marriage really is a complex relationship. You never know what goes on behind closed doors until people talk/something drastic happens. This was an eye-opener. I was hoping that marriage would help me solve at least a few problems, but looks like I need to get real. I need to learn to carry my own load first. I can't sit on account of my husband.

[LAYAAN]

I was thinking about it yesterday and today. It has finally dawned on me that I will have to finish my PhD. I can't wait for a man to show up magically in my life and take care of my business for me. I have seen it happen in my friend's life but I don't know what kinda married life she has. If it happens in my life it will, time will tell. But I need to really buckle up, pay attention to my PhD and my pharmacy exams and stop running around wasting precious time. The reason why I'm in this educational state is because I didn't care of my business. All through my PhD I was looking for an exit door. Well, now I can sit here and bash myself but its not going to achieve anything. I just have to suck it up and finish the damn thing. It has taken too long. I'm not going to write world class thesis and I don't intend to. I just need to get my paper into some journal and call it a day. I need to pass my boards and when all this is done, I will be ready to graduate and wave good bye to my boss and my department.

I hope I have learned my lessons. Never again will I ever jump into something without thinking the decision through. Never again I will start something hoping to get away from something else. The cost is just too high.

 

For now, I really need to stop dreaming that my savior will come in form of a husband and I can just get married and live happily ever after. Men have a way of picking up this "please save me" attitude even though I don't say it. Also, I'm not ready to let go of my PhD otherwise I would have married the guy from north CA. So, I need to finally face the truth, the challenge. I need to wrap it up.

[LAYAAN]

stay focused, stay focused, stay focused... millionth time... please stay focused

stop hoping to get married

stop hoping that a guy will let you sit home and not work

stop comparing yourself to others and wishing you had their life

run your race to the best of your ability and finish it

 

please please please don't think about future. do what you need to do today.

 

my worry and fear has crippled me to a point that I can't get up and face my manuscript. It has been turned down so many times that I am losing faith in my work. My professor doesn't want to understand my worry. I don't want to burden my friends from grad school with my concern because they have their own things to worry about. My God doesn't talk to me like a human being can. Where should I turn to? I don't know anymore.