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LAYAAN

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I agree with Ellie: ultimately the responsibility of getting all the things necessary for getting your PhD is yours. It's actually part of the screening process who is cut out to make it in research or not. Is it tough? Most certainly so. And of course there are supervisors who are very supportive and do most of the work for their candidates, but that is truly the minority.

 

Testing your ability to speak up, identifying and formulating where you need specific support etc is what they want to see from you. Getting a PhD is supposed to prepare you to do independent research. Nobody will tell you anymore what you need to do and how to do it. The people who can go through the struggle (and it's a struggle for nearly anyone, regardless how good they are) will be ultimately the people who will have the guts/ courage/ perseverance to get independent grants and become PIs. Sure you have collaborators and co-workers, but everyone is responsible for their own path in research.

If you do not speak up about what you need, nobody will offer it to you voluntarily. So saying 'I don't like to ask for help' is absolutely the wrong way to go about finding solutions when you are stuck.

 

The other thing I noticed especially in science, the more active you are about finding solutions, the more people want to help you, support you and collaborate with you. It's quite understandable. Research is challenging enough for anyone, funding and resources are limited. It's not in anyone's interest to become invested and involved in someone who can't pull their own weight.

 

Tinu, I know this all sounds pretty harsh. But you are at a point where you don't need more people you can vent to, but you really need someone to shake you out of your depression. You tried to do it on your own, in your own timing. But as you must realize by now, your way is taking on a long time. You are too old to be sitting back and just hoping that miraculously someone will come and save you from your problems, any problem, in any aspect of life. That is not how life works in most instances.

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Thank you Ellie and Penny.

Yes, Penny, what you say is very true. I have realized it the hard way. There are some "easy" labs, but I'm not into one of those.

But I've to disagree with what you say in the last paragraph though. Yes, I've seen my friends find a guy and quit PhD, get married. Again, I don't know how their lives are behind closed doors. I realized that I've to play with the cards that are given to me.

 

Ellie, regarding the place: I realized that I can't get any work done from home. So, I normally go home just to eat, sleep, shower, etc. Other than that, I'm either in the lab or in the medical school study facility. Its been less than a week I went back on my antidepressant pill and I feel that my mood is much better and my energy levels are much high. So, I hope to take advantage of that and get some work done. Yes, My PI is also very hands off type. Unfortunately, he also gets angry if I don't agree with him.

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So, I have been using link removed to keep a track of my spendings. I noticed that I was spending about $400 on groceries alone. So, for month of July I set a budget of $200 for groceries. I have already gone above the limit. I'm at $300 today.

I didn't cook last week and this week which is why I'm above my limit.

 

I cook for a week, 3-4 different dishes and freeze portions and microwave and eat at home only.

Coleslaw with yogurt and splenda and little bit of oil is my dinner at night that I munch on until I feel full. My smoothie (banana, apple, frozen berries, soy milk, flax seed powder, protein powder, frozen spinach) is what I drink throughout a day. I eat only 1 homemade meal for lunch.

I almost never eat out, once in 2-3 months may be.

I don't consume dairy products except yoghurt so no expensive cheese.

I don't drink alcohol.

I don't go to clubs, party.

I don't eat meat. I'm almost a vegan.

 

I don't know why I'm spending so much money on food? Its so difficult to stay on this budget. I have nothing to show for those $300. I consumed all that food? I must be eating like a pig, I feel. Oh well, I hope I can stay on track next month.

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If you want to quit your PhD: quit it. Not because of some guy, but because it is the right thing for you.

 

If you would say that being a wife/ a mother is the only dream in your life - I'd say go for it, these are valid goals to have and strive for.

 

However from your posts I gather that being married for you is just a way to escape from a number of different problems without having a clear vision of what this marriage should be like and without a realistic view of what it takes to have/ maintain a healthy relationship.

 

Yes maybe some of your friends are happy with having dropped out of their PhDs and being married.

 

You ask how come it worked for your friends, but not for you:

1) you are not them. Never compare yourself to others, because everyone is different.

2) you don't know how happy or not they are with their relationship and with having dropped out. Lots of people don't like to advertise to the outside world that they have made the wrong life decisions. Do your parents tell everyone that they have a miserable marriage? - Of course not.

3) your friends who went through the arranged marriage route were probably not as sensitive as you when it came down to the process, i.e. having to answer questions about finances etc during the first meeting. Although you chose that route, you have difficulty with dealing with what is intrinsic to this process.

 

If you want romance, a supportive, healthy, stable relationship, you have to be able to deliver that as well. Currently you are full of anger about men, not the best starting point to find that special someone in your life, regardless of how you go about it.

 

One of the reasons you cited why you want to be married so desperately is that you think it will make things with your family easier. Yes, they don't have to worry about having an unmarried child, but nevertheless their problems, emotionally and healthwise will not be resolved because of that. They will still put pressure on you for not being there to take care of them. And since these are your parents, you are still the one who has to deal with them, regardless if you are married or not.

 

I sincerely hope that by being back on your medication that it will be easier for you to focus on your PhD and not get so worked up about your marriage situation.

 

Make a choice once and for all if you want this PhD or not. If not, then fine, cut the cord and take the necessary steps to leave the program. If you want it, then truly focus on it and remove all other things from your life that take energy away from it as much as possible.

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I don't know why I'm spending so much money on food? Its so difficult to stay on this budget. I have nothing to show for those $300. I consumed all that food? I must be eating like a pig, I feel. Oh well, I hope I can stay on track next month.

 

Are you sure you aren't stocking up on snacks, gum, candy? Or maybe it's not food but other miscellaneous stuff -- like cosmetics, shampoo, detergent, etc? Some fruits are more expensive than others. And do you get generic milk or something a bit pricier? All of that can really add up, but listen, you have to treat yourself sometimes. Especially when you are dissertating

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Tuesday turned out to be a productive day. I went to the last session of my writing class and got lots of feedback on my newly reconstructed discussion. Some senior students didn't have time and took my discussion home and said they will email me their comments. My eyes almost welled up to see this kind helping act. The teacher waited after the class and suggested corrections and even prayed with me.

For a change my boss didn't act out. I took a deep breath, took my God's name before I knocked on my boss's door yesterday. He looked happier than 2 days ago.

He said "Oh, you look pleased!"

I was startled, but said "Oh yes, I got some good feedback on our discussion in the writing class."

Him "Great!, you want to go over it? I have time now"

Me "Sure!"

He sat down with me and for the first time we went through the entire discussion without him giving up and getting agitated.

He suggested corrections. I'm going right now to enter all the corrections in.

 

My physician has ordered to stop the physical therapy sessions due to increased pain. I'm given home exercises to do. I hope this will save me some day time.

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Monday, I went to see my 3rd PI and suggested a possibility that the lady who is in our university and well published in our area, review our work, possibly edit it and we can give her a co-authorship. My 3rd PI was very supportive and said he will talk to her. He said that he will send an email to my 2nd PI and they both will communicate and see how things work out and they can talk to my boss.

Thank God for support from atleast 1 person in the committee.

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Are you sure you aren't stocking up on snacks, gum, candy? Or maybe it's not food but other miscellaneous stuff -- like cosmetics, shampoo, detergent, etc? Some fruits are more expensive than others. And do you get generic milk or something a bit pricier? All of that can really add up, but listen, you have to treat yourself sometimes. Especially when you are dissertating

Yes, I normally buy generic soymilk, its a little pricier than regular milk, 1 box of about 1 L costs $1.2.

No, when I meant groceries, I meant groceries only. I dont' go through shampoo quickly because I mostly wash my hair with herbal powder. I use shampoo only 1-2 tspn and once a week. Detergent I buy in bulk and I'm the only one using it. Cosmetics, no, I've been keeping a track of it. No cosmetics bought in July.

Yes, fruits can get costly. May be that is where my money is going.

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Yes, I asked myself this Q. If I wasn't worried about my increasing age and finding a husband soon, would I continue the PhD? Honest answer is yes. I would cry about the challenges of the program but I wouldn't worry as much as I do now.

 

No matter how much I say, I want to get married ASAP, its tough to quit PhD at this moment. I've put in too much to quit. Many of my friends here have been telling me "Your husband can leave you. Marriage is not guaranteed. Finish your degree. It will stay with you forever. He can't take away your education from you." I have an offer right now "If we like each other, we will get married before December and you can "slowly" complete your PhD (nobody completes it, most women just quit it if their husband is somewhere else and pushing them to stay with him and start a family). But remember I want to start a family next year."

 

As strange as it sounds my intellect freezes when I think about marriage. I am guilty of thinking that my husband will lift me out of current situation and offer me a better life. I pity myself for thinking these thoughts. I mean it. I have advised women before not to buy into this BS. Everything in life comes with a price-tag. If he gives you this, he asks for somethign in return (LIke in my case "starting a family immediately"). Another reason is my family. Yes, they would be relieved for a moment. But my relationship to them doesn't change. I will still need to take care of my parents in their old age.

 

I really need to stop thinking these unproductive thoughts. I simply can't stop looking at myself in the mirror and ask myself "Why not me?" "Why was I not chosen?""What is so lacking in me?" I'm trying to get over this and focus on my studies. My pill really helps me stop thinking.

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I have a loong experiment scheduled today. When I was about to insert my tubes into a machine, I just happened to click on my saved protocol. I found that it was drastically changed. I kinda knew who must have messed with it. I talked to the same aggressive girl from the lab next door.

Her laughing "Oh, we couldn't figure out our protocol, so we were playing around with everyone's protocol."

Me "This is not a laughing matter. My plate is ready to be read and I'm wasting time resetting my protocol. If I did the same thing with yours, you would be cussing me out."

Her "I've never cussed at you."

Me "Sure, you haven't, but you have screamed at me. A couple of days ago, you raised your voice at me when I told you 'I can't talk with you right now, I'm working towards a deadline.' My boss was 5 ft away from you when you raised your voice at me. Anything you do is right. Anything I do is wrong."

Her "Well, sure you are acting like one crazy woman."

Me "Thats why I said when you raise your voice at me, oh well thats just your natural voice. When I do the same, I'm crazy."

 

I went to my boss and told him that she messed with my protocol. I normally don't complain, I let things go, but I've had it with this girl. He asked me to go to her boss. I did. Her boss is on my committee and is my boss's friend.

Him "I'm sorry. I hope your assay works. What she did is not right. She shouldn't mess with people's settings. I will talk to her."

 

I'm going to write this woman off, entirely, completely.

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she's the crazy person. i just can't imagine for a minute, going to someone else's lab and messing up the saved programs. i mean, that is just insane. i am glad you told your boss that this girl is having a very disruptive influence. she should not be allowed to step foot inside your lab. the girl is crazy. hopefully your boss makes sure she stays out.

 

do you guys lock your doors? where i work, you can have it set so that the doors are locked, 24/7 and you can't get in without the electronic pass.

 

if people are coming into lab and messing things up, perhaps your lab should consider locking up. many labs are required to do so anyways, because of the organisms they work with.

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The equipment belongs to some a professor (other than my PI or her PI), but is kept in the lab that belongs to her PI. The labs are locked, but they don't have electronic codes on them. Students that work in that facility have keys that can open all lab doors.

Honestly Annie, I just want the degree and I want to get out. I've had it upto here with the whole program, the people, fake friendships. I mean it. I just want out.

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I have mentioned this guy in one of my earlier posts.

39 yr old, divorced for last 5 years, no kids, expressed his desire to get married ASAP n start a family early-mid next year, says that consistently in all his phone calls, told me that he doesn't want to stay away from his wife (in different cities) after marriage, is in north CA and wants to meet me.

 

I feel like writing this -

It has been great knowing you so far. I appreciate your honesty, but I'm concerned about your desire to get married rather quickly in the light of my ongoing education. You also have mentioned that you don't want to stay separate from your wife after marriage. I don't understand how I will complete my education if we decide to get married and I can't finish my program by December. I also want to take the decision of having kids slower than you.

So, I feel that our timelines don't match. I would rather wait and not meet you so soon. I would be better able to predict when my course would end once my paper gets accepted. Also, to finish my PhD in appropriate time is a lot of pressure and I'm unable to think clearly about marriage at this time.

If you are okay with it, we can stay in touch by email casually and I can let you know how things go with my program.

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i think that is pretty fair. i mean, if he wants to get married asap and doesn't want to wait for you to finish your program, maybe it's not the right match.

would he be willing to move to SoCal?

no, he has a job in north CA. He didn't discuss moving to SoCal. Instead, he said to me "Why do you care to pass your boards before December? You can do that after too. What is more important to you? If we get married, I will cook for you so you can study." ya right every man has made empty promises to me.

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no, he has a job in north CA. He didn't discuss moving to SoCal. Instead, he said to me "Why do you care to pass your boards before December? You can do that after too. What is more important to you? If we get married, I will cook for you so you can study." ya right every man has made empty promises to me.

 

I'd probably reply "why do you care about keeping your job? You can find one in SoCa. What is more important to you? If we get married, I will cook for you so you can job hunt."

 

No wonder I did not have the best luck on the arranged market...

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Thank you Marsh for editing my message. It reads much better now.

 

Last time we talked he said to me "I'm not sure in your ability to deal with pressure. Married life inevitably brings pressure. Do you really think you can handle that?"

I said "I'm going through a tough program right now and that is why I said there is pressure to finish and finish in right time. Talking about pressure in married life, I'm hoping to marry a man who understands the pressure and will help his wife lessen the pressure by sharing the burden."

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I'd probably reply "why do you care about keeping your job? You can find one in SoCa. What is more important to you? If we get married, I will cook for you so you can job hunt."

No wonder I did not have the best luck on the arranged market...

I don't normally ask such sarcastic Qs. I already know his answer. If moving was on his mind, he would have said that without any prodding. People in arrange marriage talk to each other. I don't want to get bad name by asking sarcastic Qs or back answering. Its easier to say "no thank you" instead.

 

I would not recommend anyone to stand in arranged market unless -

1) they are really good looking (means white in indian arranged marriage market)

2) they are emotionally smart to handle sarcastic, demeaning Qs from men and their families

3) they are able to get turned down and still hold a good self image

3) getting married means a lot to them

4) they are not really looking for compatibility, connection, companionship, in other words a deeper relationship

5) they are okay with - "you have to work, I want kids so you have to have them on my timeline, please find/resume work immediately after the cord is cut, who is going to provide for your child?" type comments

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I don't normally ask such sarcastic Qs. I already know his answer.

 

Well I was joking--but generally if someone demanded some big sacrifice from me, I did ask (not at all sarcastically) if he were willing to make the equivalent sacrifice. To their credit, no man I interacted with seemed to think badly of me for pointing out that he could be the one to give--in fact for many of them it was eye-opening, and I think it made them respect me more--they would stammer a bit, and then agree that mine was a fair question.

 

Actually I have to say--on my most recent foray into the arranged market, most men I spoke to recently were fairly enlightened in that regard, and willing to relocate to a major city (though not to a super-rural area--for which I don't blame them). They all had other incompatibilities with me: They were super-religious, or they still wanted to go to school for years, whatever--but they understood I was a career woman, and did not expect me to sacrifice that. I think my ad was written so that it selected those few men who were relatively open-minded (for the more traditional Indian culture) and looking for someone like me. Though I was at a little different place--I did have a permanent job and I am a citizen, so as far as the arranged market I probably had more "right" to ask them to compromise on things.

 

I would not recommend anyone to stand in arranged market unless -

1) they are really good looking (means white in indian arranged marriage market)

2) they are emotionally smart to handle sarcastic, demeaning Qs from men and their families

3) they are able to get turned down and still hold a good self image

3) getting married means a lot to them

4) they are not really looking for compatibility, connection, companionship, in other words a deeper relationship

5) they are okay with - "you have to work, I want kids so you have to have them on my timeline, please find/resume work immediately after the cord is cut, who is going to provide for your child?" type comments

 

I think at least a few of these apply on the non-arranged market also, and for the ones that don't apply there are many statements that do.

 

Unless you are very lucky, love is brutal, in any market.

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I'm not sure in your ability to deal with pressure. Married life inevitably brings pressure. Do you really think you can handle that

 

I think this is a fair question: there is not only pressure to who is doing what in order to keep the house running and food on the table (I think that was what you were eluding to in your response??), but there is an enormous emotional pressure in any relationship to keep things balanced, fair, and happy.

 

How do you handle it when you are both under enormous outside pressure not to let it all out on your partner, to still find energy to support him/ her, not to let your negativity drag them down as well? Also you can't expect your partner always to be the one to pull you up, you still have to work on that yourself.

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No, well, you are right. If they are asking you these seemingly stupid Qs, you have a right to turn tables and ask them the same Q. So, by nature its not sarcastic, though taken independently it can appear that way.

 

I'm glad that you had a better experience than I did in this market. Yes, my profile is written in a way that I come accross as I have goals, confidence, etc. Let me share something with you. Most men I saw in arranged market are software engineers. These people have jobs that are geographically very limiting. A nurse, a dentist, a family practice physician, a pharmacist, even a new lawyer can find work anywhere (yes, after taking that state's exam, but its possible). These people can't. You know most SW engineers are where... in north CA. Its mini India. They are not gonna move. They are not gonna leave their jobs for anyone, especially in this economy.

Also one of the major limiting factor is that most men had purchased houses. A house ties you down to that place. My only Q is why do you lay this condition that the girl should already have a job in your city? Why can't she be working towards something and can get a job in your city? You are not willing to move at all, why can't you be flexible in other areas? Well, who am I to say anything to these men?

 

Marsh, I really have no hope of getting married to a decent man in arranged market. I told you what my problem is dating American men. I'm doomed for life of singlehood. If I don't want that, I will have to look for something that I don't have (like green card) and just decide to marry someone in arranged market. I'm really afraid of taking chances with American men. Not saying that they are bad. But they date forever. My ass will not be in the US to date if I don't get a visa to stay back. That's the reason why I'm still standing in the arranged market.

 

Love being brutal... I would agree if I had not seen some examples. My 6 cousin brothers (2 in the US) got married to girls who had foreign degrees and couldn't immediately work. One brother in India provided for his wife's further education. Other brothers married girls who had to leave their city after marriage. They had to start over. My dad never asked my mom "how much will you earn". I try not to compare these days. It only increases my pain. Well, I'm in this situation and I will have to earn. I will have to produce kids, I will have to care for the kids. I will have to sleep with my husband and I will cook and clean. I will wonder if marrying was worth it. I will wonder if singlehood would be that bad to handle

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No, well, you are right. If they are asking you these seemingly stupid Qs, you have a right to turn tables and ask them the same Q. So, by nature its not sarcastic, though taken independently it can appear that way.

 

It depends how you say it. I used to blink and ask in a very innocent-sounding way: "I can't relocate now. How about you--are you willing to?"

 

I'm glad that you had a better experience than I did in this market. Yes, my profile is written in a way that I come accross as I have goals, confidence, etc.

 

I don't know that I had a better experience; just different--I was very honest in my profile about those things that might be dealbreakers for a large fraction of people. I explained that I wasn't vegetarian, I wasn't religious, that I needed to live in Rural Town X where I work, and that I was willing to relocate to Big City Y where my family was--but those were the only places I really wanted to live.

 

I did not meet a single person who wanted to live in Rural Town X, but everyone who wrote me was willing to relocate to Big City Y (or lived there already). I got fewer replies, but the ones I got were a fit--at least geographically--and I did not have to go through too many phone interviews where people asked my salary, although most men did ask *some* stupid question--Indian people can be tactless by the standards of the West...it is just something you have to deal with and have a thick skin about. E.g. no matter how skinny I have been (and now and then I have been skinny) I have one aunt who always tells me "You would fare better on the marriage market if you were 'slim and trim.'"

 

So if, say, you need to live in a particular city until you finish your PhD, maybe that is something you should state in your profile.

 

Let me share something with you. Most men I saw in arranged market are software engineers. These people have jobs that are geographically very limiting. A nurse, a dentist, a family practice physician, a pharmacist, even a new lawyer can find work anywhere (yes, after taking that state's exam, but its possible). These people can't. You know most SW engineers are where... in north CA. Its mini India. They are not gonna move. They are not gonna leave their jobs for anyone, especially in this economy.

Also one of the major limiting factor is that most men had purchased houses. A house ties you down to that place.

 

That is surprising; I always thought people in IT were the most flexible--every city needs IT people, doesn't it? I wonder if the lack of geographic flexibility is an excuse. Btw I have a house, and I am about to sell it--I would not say that a house ties you down too much, either. But yes, if a guy has a permanent job and you don't, I can see why he might not be willing to move.

 

Marsh, I really have no hope of getting married to a decent man in arranged market. I told you what my problem is dating American men. I'm doomed for life of singlehood. If I don't want that, I will have to look for something that I don't have (like green card) and just decide to marry someone in arranged market. I'm really afraid of taking chances with American men. Not saying that they are bad. But they date forever. My ass will not be in the US to date if I don't get a visa to stay back. That's the reason why I'm still standing in the arranged market.

 

It doesn't sound like you have no hope of meeting anyone...it sounds like your odds will improve once you get your degree. I'd say get the visa on your own; why do you need a man for that? And supposing you can't get the visa on your own, I'd say go back to India and have a good life there, without relying on a man to change your immigration status. You have said in the past that your extended family there will push you to marry someone you don't want to marry, but this is 2010--nobody can push you into anything unless you agree to being pushed. And maybe you could live in another part of India than the one you are from.

 

Btw as to dating forever, yes, that can be a problem. But I have found that even American men are fairly respectful of one's time--if they feel it is not going to work, most will dump you within a few months.

 

And some American men do move fast. I have been dating my present BF four months, which is probably less time than I have been posting on your journal--and just tonight he phoned telling me he wants to move to my city and move in together. I told him very flatly that he was welcome to move, but that I would not move in together until we were under some commitment--I said that was my constraint, and I left him free to deal with it in any way he wanted (I didn't elaborate--I guess I meant he could either not move, move and get his own place, or eventually get engaged).

 

Well, so now he is starting to float the idea of getting engaged in a couple of months and asking me where I want to be living in a year. Honestly I am a bit unnerved by how fast he wants to move; I like him and I do see a future, but I am not where he is relationship-wise, and I have to slow him down. Dating forever is a risk, but it is also a luxury--you have time to actually get to know the person you are marrying.

 

Love being brutal... I would agree if I had not seen some examples. My 6 cousin brothers (2 in the US) got married to girls who had foreign degrees and couldn't immediately work. One brother in India provided for his wife's further education. Other brothers married girls who had to leave their city after marriage. They had to start over. My dad never asked my mom "how much will you earn". I try not to compare these days.

 

I maintain that love is brutal--I don't know about your cousins, but you describe your parents' marriage as being so unhappy that you yourself are ambivalent about having kids. You do not know what the others' marriages were like; personally I would hate to move and then be financially dependent on a man in the way you describe.

 

Well, I'm in this situation and I will have to earn. I will have to produce kids, I will have to care for the kids. I will have to sleep with my husband and I will cook and clean. I will wonder if marrying was worth it. I will wonder if singlehood would be that bad to handle

 

My first (Parsi) ex-boyfriend does not want kids, ever. He got engaged to a woman who did, largely because she was Parsi and his parents told him to. For some reason they got engaged without ever having a direct conversation about kids, and they had a miserable engagement which he recently broke.

 

If you find having kids and caring for them a burden before you have even gotten married, then don't marry someone who wants kids, or wants you to care for kids. Put in your profile that you are not sure you want kids; yes you will get fewer responses, but at least the ones you get will be compatible with you, and you will not get men who are pushing you to have a family.

 

By the way I have an interesting story for you. My elderly and old-fashioned great-aunt called up my father today and said "Fluff needs to get married...you know, you should not fuss too much about whether he is tall or short or fat or skinny or dark or light. It doesn't matter if he is some other caste or from some other part of India. All of that is fine. Just make sure she doesn't marry an American guy, OK? He would just be too different...he wouldn't fit in." My poor dad--who knows all about the pilot and is all for my dating interracially/interculturally/whatever--just kind of smiled and nodded.

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I'm really happy to know that your BF is talking about moving to your city and moving in, etc. Yes, 4 months may be a little too early for this, but at least he is talking all this. That tells me that all American men are not same. My ex (fireman), I told you, said to me after 4 months that 'he would be able to tell better if he was with someone for a couple of years.' I'm glad I let him go. I would have only wasted my time with him.

I wish you all the success with this relationship. I hope everything works out.

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