EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 You really can't compare it to the kind of suffering animals have to go through- being skinned alive, electrocuted, forced to live in cages, just for OUR sake. That's just as worse as you can get when it comes to suffering. sadly people have experienced these things as well. ...the evil of man... is astounding. Link to comment
lila... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 sadly people have experienced these things as well. ...the evil of man... is astounding. But not in the masses like animals and it's not a common, ongoing thing. I know there have been instances in history but at least it has stopped. Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Ah yeah course, I meant for like fur and stuff, but for testing yeah I guess they need to be living. CAD, do lots of people die in clinical trials? thats a serious question, I have no idea. We treat animals like they were placed here for our use, and whatever purpose we want them for. That is pretty awful to be honest. Which I don't know, does that counteract with the fact that I think to eat animals for surivial is ok? I had this same argument with my guy afew months ago, I can't remember what conclusion we came to though. We got pretty mad at eachother though lol There have been a couple of high profile cases (I believe one in Philadelphia) where someone died from a clinical trial because the trial was mismanaged. There can be side effects to medications and procedures that are being tested, but the consent form spells out the risks that are involved in being part of the study. In some studies the drug or device being tested is a last resort for these people because there is nothing else that will cure them. So some people die on a study because they were already very sick and dying. All studies are monitored very closely. Before a study reaches the clinical trial stage, however, the drug has been rigorously test in the laboratory and on lab animals. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 But not in the masses like animals and it's not a common, ongoing thing. I know there have been instances in history but at least it has stopped. No it hasnt lol. but thats another subject unto itself. i loves animals. and i could never harm one. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Ah right, yeah I heard about some people from England who almost died from a trial, their heads swelled to twice their size and went purple.. So, even before the trial on humans, they go to animals first? Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 there are other types of vivisection also. that dont involve products but other things. like brain trauma and psycology studies. one i read about involved a man who was particularly brutal. he took a baby chimp and stuck it at the bottom of a vat with no lighting. and fed it food and water for i think three years just to see how it would act when he took it out. The result was a catatonic specimen. and then there are the monkeys who had their limbs surgically paralyzed. ...the ones that are forced to smoke... the list goes on. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 there are other types of vivisection also. that dont involve products but other things. like brain trauma and psycology studies. one i read about involved a man who was particularly brutal. he took a baby chimp and stuck it at the bottom of a vat with no lighting. and fed it food and water for i think three years just to see how it would act when he took it out. The result was a catatonic specimen. and then there are the monkeys who had their limbs surgically paralyzed. ...the ones that are forced to smoke... the list goes on. Is that the Pit of Despair? I'm actually just reading about that now. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Is that the Pit of Despair? I'm actually just reading about that now. probably. i read about all that back in highschool after i saw the fur farm video. Link to comment
Cognitive_Canine Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 After 30 days, the "total isolates," as they were called, were found to be "enormously disturbed." After being isolated for a year, they barely moved, didn't explore or play, and were incapable of having sexual relations. When put with other monkeys for a daily play session, they were badly bullied. Two of them refused to eat and starved themselves to death.[4] In order to find out how the isolates would parent, Harlow devised what he called a "rape rack," to which the female isolates were tied in the position taken by a normal female monkey in order to be impregnated. Artificial insemination had not been developed at that time. He found that, just as they were incapable of having sexual relations, they were also unable to parent their offspring, either abusing or neglecting them. "Not even in our most devious dreams could we have designed a surrogate as evil as these real monkey mothers were," he wrote. [5] Having no social experience themselves, they were incapable of appropriate social interaction. One mother held her baby's face to the floor and chewed off his feet and fingers. Another crushed her baby's head. Most of them simply ignored their offspring. [5] These experiments showed Harlow what total and partial isolation did to developing monkeys, but he felt he hadn't captured the essense of depression, which he believed was characterized by feelings of loneliness, helplessness, and a sense of being trapped, or being "sunk in a well of despair," he said Pit of despair. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 ah, rape rack. that word has stuck with me for 5 years. horrible stupid experiments. they disgust me Link to comment
FortunateOne Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm thinking of starting a plant liberation front. Hey! There you go, the PLF. I can begin an underground mission to stop plant genecide. Who's with me? Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 I just read about Britches, the little monkey =( he got out, which is good. I wonder how many places get broken into, and animals set free. and erm.. har har. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 The problem with PETA and ALF is that they push extremiest views and do extreme and illegal things (alf) which really gives animal rights a bad name. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Yeah, the whole throwing blood on people thing by the PETA would have me freaked out.. Link to comment
lila... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm thinking of starting a plant liberation front. Hey! There you go, the PLF. I can begin an underground mission to stop plant genecide. Who's with me? I really don't think animal cruelty is a matter to joke about. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 it does more to hurt their cause and message IMO, because the public at large now associates people who care for the suffering of animals with 'loons' and extremists and at best they dont take the cause seriously, and at worst they become an enemy of it. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Yeah I agree, they do have a sort of stigma attached to them now, and maybe due to the PETA and its over the top protests! Which is ironic really huh. But, what else can you do? do petitions and stuff work? I asked earlier on, does anyone even know of any kind of place that has been closed down because of these methods? Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 not to my knowledge. the power is behind the dollar. about the only thing PETA does right is legally fight battles. through the courts and such. i'm sure some of their petitions go through as well... Link to comment
lila... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I just read about Britches, the little monkey =( he got out, which is good. I wonder how many places get broken into, and animals set free. and erm.. har har. Have you seen the show "Escape to Chimp Eden" ? I have a crush on the guy in that show just for that reason, he's cute AND he rescues animals...I'm in love lol. Link to comment
EQD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Have you seen the show "Escape to Chimp Eden" ? I have a crush on the guy in that show just for that reason, he's cute AND he rescues animals...I'm in love lol. i love that show! i could watch it for hours on end. (and i have) but wha-wha-watch out, he's married and has a kid Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 haha, No Bubs I havent seen it So he rescues abused animals! thats a whole other superhero right there lol. Is it real or is he a character? Link to comment
lila... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 i love that show! i could watch it for hours on end. (and i have) but wha-wha-watch out, he's married and has a kid Aww is he Somewhere deep inside I was holding out a little hope lol. I really admire him, it's nice to know there are people out there like him, if very rare. He's so inspirational. Link to comment
FortunateOne Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I really don't think animal cruelty is a matter to joke about. Neither is the ad hominem argument towards pragmatic omnivours with an illogical pathos based stance on human nutritional evolution. Link to comment
lila... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 haha, No Bubs I havent seen it! So he rescues abused animals! wow! thats a whole other superhero right there, move over Hancock LOL He rescues abused chimps and takes them to his sanctuary. When he doesn't get permission to take them he'll come back and force them out, it's so admirable how far he goes for the chimps. OMG I just googled britches the monkey and came up with an image linked to a webpage where they showed pictures of more abused monkeys used in labs Gosh it's so sad. Link to comment
Mavh25 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Neither is the ad hominem argument towards pragmatic omnivours with an illogical pathos based stance on human nutritional evolution. You talking about the PETA? Link to comment
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