Ed1 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hi, This situation is driving me crazy and I am hoping that someone could help.... I have been approached to apply for a job in New Zealand. Although I have no job offer as yet - the chances are looking good. This would mean moving the other side of the world - so my whole life will change. It is a daunting, but exciting prospect, and has been an ambition of mine for many years. Personal circumstances have always dictated that I could not make the move, and as such I have never really progressed this a viable option. I have been dating a girl for 15 months - we moved in together 6 months ago. I really love her, and she brings balance to my life. She is an amazing, kind, loving woman, and she means so much to me. She has talked about us buying a house together next year, marriage and kids in the future.... so I feel we have a real future. Problem is, my partner does not want to move abroad. I have not really pushed the reasons, but things like her family, her friends, and her pets have all been mentioned. I am really scared that I may get to the point where I have to make a decision to stay here or go to NZ but lose her, and I don't know what to do!!! This has been causing friction between us, mainly on my part, because I am frustrated that she seems totally unwilling to give it a go. BUT, I DO understand what she would be sacraficing, and know that this would be an incredibly big deal for her. My main reasons for wanting to go are: I now feel ready to settle down and set up home and family. I want toprovide a nice standard of living in an environment that is amazing for children, and my family. I want to have the nice plot of land, the amazing scenery, the activities. I don't feel like the UK offers this anymore, and the thought of trying to bring up a family here quite literally fills me with fear. I know I may have a certain level of romantic thoughts about NZ, but I truly feel it would be a great opportunity. I just don't know what to do - pursue the interviews, with the potential of getting the job, and then be in a position where I might lose my partner. The other side of me is, what if I don' take it, and resent the fact for ever more. Sorry for the long note - just trying to explain where I am. Thanks and I look forward to responses / advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost1607307474 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 This is such a hard question to answer New Zealand would be a fantastic place to live and raise a family but I can see why your girlfriend wouldn't want to leave behind her own family. Hypothetically, if you told her that you had made the decision and that you were going to NZ, how do you think she would react? If she knew you were definitely going, do you think she would be willing to go with you? I'd try my best to talk to her about the benefits of living in New Zealand. Tell her how great it would be to raise a family, and to have great living standards, and children who would grow up in a beautiful country full of opportunity. Tell her how much it means to you and really be serious about it. If she really doesn't want to sacrifice her family for you, then the heartbreaking truth may be that you will have to choose between New Zealand and her. But don't give up just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 A similar thing happened to me just over a year ago cept it was to America and my now ex gf wouldn't come with me so I decided to stay. We had been going out for just over a year and I thought she was the person I was gonna spend the rest of my life with but a year later she broke up with me. If I could go back in time I'd move over there and not cause I knew my gf would break up with me but cause it's what would of been best for me. I had a job, a house, new experiences and a new life waiting for me but I threw it away and by doing that, made the biggest mistake of my life. The chances are, if you move over here you'll lose her, but look at what you'll gain. You could have the life you're after and we have some pretty decent chicks over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 So how long will personal circumstances prevent you from going after your ambitions? At the end of the day she may not want to go because she wants to be near her family. But whoes to say her family wont leave her? Frankly you are putting off what you want to do based on something someone else wants to do but that they have no control over. You are in essense giving you power away to not just your GF but her family. I've lived abroad for 8 or so years now. Best thing I ever did but thats just me. The poster above has a good point too. What if she decides to leave you in a years time? Then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What if you were married to her and she didn't want to go...would you pick up and move just the same? You two have moved in together and you say the two of you discussed marriage, children and a future. Look at it from her point of view....she commits herself to you, thinks there is a bright future for the two of you and now you change the rules on her and expect her to follow you around the world..to leave her family. Her choice is give up her life to follow YOUR dream (would she be able to get a job there) or lose you. So you can pick yourself up and follow YOUR dream and end this relationship if she doesn't follow you. Then you go to NZ and meet a someone there...you move in, talk about a future...but the job and the way of life is not what you expected, you are homesick and want to go back home...so now the choice is either this new woman follows you back home or that relationship is toast. When you commit to someone and love them, you have to modify some of YOUR dreams and make OUR dreams. Is NZ the only option for you to fulfill YOUR dreams. You can walk away from love to pursue this..but if you do then it is clear you never did really love her enough to totally commit. It is your life to do as you see fit and to make choices...but what you are asking her to do is a very tall order because she doesn't want to move away from her support network. While you will be busy getting your new life sorted and be totally focused on that, how focused would you be on making sure your partner is settling in okay...would you be so engrossed in your exciting new life that she would have to fend for herself. That is what often happens when one partner follows their work dream to a completely new environment and the other person follows to be with them...they are often left out in the cold. I can see why she wouldn't want to leave her family and friends to follow your dream. If you really want her to come why not discuss possibilities with her...job prospects, things she can do while you are busy setting up your life etc. You need to discuss this as a proper couple...not fromt he standpoint of "I am doing this and if you are not on board then bye bye". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed1 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thanks for the comments / advice. Must say that I am surprised by some of the responses..... I am not just thinking about myself, I am thinking about the two of us as a couple. If I was just thinking about me - I would not have posted asking for advice. It is a reality that if we want a family, and my partner wants to look after the child (which I fully support) then I am the bread winner / provider. I am looking to move for many reasons, but a good number of them of for future family. I want to bring my family up in a nice environment, and I see NZ offering this. I also see it giving us a better standard of living. I totally relate to my partners concerns - I am very nervous too..... but sometimes you have to take chances - you only live once. That does not mean that I am a massive risk taker / adrenaline junkey - I just think that if worse comes to worse you can always come home! The feedback I have to date is similar to what is happening in my head. Conflicting advice, depending on what perspective this situation is considered. I have studied a LONG time to get to where I am now - 10 years plus, and am now in a position where I am totally mobile - but only if my partner wants to come. I am just worried about not pursuing this opportunity, and a few years down the line, things not work out with my g/f - then I only have regrets. I am thinking about my partner, and I don't want to lose her. What I would really like is to take a chance and try what could be an amazing opportunity. I may not even get the job offer. I don't know if I should attend interview, and see what happens. Problem is, if I do get offer - I would need to make a decision relatively quickly. When my partners future would be impacted so much, I need to be thinking about it now. My head is just spinning, and can't sleep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waveseer Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I look at it from a compatibility standpoint. It is an adventure and maybe your sense of adventure is mismatched with hers. What about future adventures? Are you going to be all for new experiences when she'd rather stay in her comfortable known environment? To me this is a long range issue that just happened to come up now due to circumstances. I'd be happy to discover the truth about my partner early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Have you told her you would like to try for the job? What does she say? Has she said she doesn't want to work once she has children? Does she not have her own career goals? Does she work now? How would she feel about giving up her job and have no job in New Zealand? Would she be able to find a job in New Zealand? What about marriage..will this be before or after New Zealand? What kind of financial protection would she have if she moves without a job and you two aren't married? What kind of work could she find there if no babies are on their way yet and you two move down there. She will have to find something to occupy her time. What if you have children and she stays home..many people I know have the help and support of family members..but moving so far away her family members won't be able to come help at the drop of a hat. She will be on her own. If you are working late it will be entirely up to her...no family supports. You don't have to answer these questions in a post, I am just giving you food for thought on what could be her side of the situation. The person you need to have long discussions with about all the ins and outs is with her. If she is supposed to be your life-long partner then this decision is not simply for you to decide on your own...you need to fully flesh it out with her coming up with all possible scenarios. Yes, the relationship may go south and you may regret not moving...but by the same token she may move to be with you and the relationship goes south and then she is stuck....or you may decide to go without her and find out that you are not as happy there, want to go back home and resume a relationship with her but she has long since moved on to someone else. There are risks to your future happiness no matter which choice you make because you never know how it will turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I look at it from a compatibility standpoint. It is an adventure and maybe your sense of adventure is mismatched with hers. What about future adventures? Are you going to be all for new experiences when she'd rather stay in her comfortable known environment? To me this is a long range issue that just happened to come up now due to circumstances. I'd be happy to discover the truth about my partner early on. Yes, but it's HIS adventure and she is basically the tag along to fit into HIS dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What exactly is he offering her by going to New Zealand that he can't offer her now? I don't think she is being unreasonable at all...her concerns are very very valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed1 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thanks for the feedback / advice.... Crazyaboutdogs - I understand you giving me food for thought, and you provide a very useful perspective on the situation - one of the extremes running through my head day in day out! Just to reiterate.... I am NOT wanting to move to NZ and wash my hands of my g/f - I AM asking her to come with me. With regards jobs - one of the first things I ask the recruitment consultant was job opportunities for my g/f as it is important to me that she has something to look forward to also.... she loves animals.... and I have even looked into jobs at the RSPCA for her.... I have been told she would have NO problem getting a role in either her current profession of pursuing her dreams which is working with animals..... At the end of the day one of the reasons for moving to NZ is to move to a country which offers so much with respect to the great outdoors, animals, land, etc.... I have discussed with her, even on the way home from work today! Her perspective is that she would be happy to move somewhere that is 4 hours flight from home, but not the other end of the world. For the fact that she couldn't just come and see her friends / family or if her parents got ill be home quickly. Those are all the things that worry me about moving, but I can see the bigger perspective, and opportunity, and adventure, which is what this could also be - a life adventure. I just don't know if I should a) proceed with interview and see what happens - if I get offered the job. b) don't proceed - and forget about it. Fundamentally, in the current climate, our worlds can be turned on their heads over night. There is no real security, that I have come to understand over the last few years. As I have said to her, we could rent the house out, move to NZ, if we don't like it we come home, if we do, we stay. If one does and one doesn't we are in a similar situation as now, albeit in NZ. It is just so frustrating....... and I just wish that the decision could be easy, as lets face it the challenging bit is moving shop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed1 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Crazyaboutdogs.... I am offering her the opportunity to experience a whole new country with me.... something that many people long to do, but are not able to. I am offering her to come with me, to share a future together, with the view to setting up a home and family.... in a beautiful part of the world. I am offering her to take a chance, to see what that chance brings, and if it is not what either of us want, then at least we can say we have tried, instead of either a) sitting at home in 30 years time thinking what if, or b) splitting up in a couple of years time, and me kicking myself.... With regards to b) I am totally happy with my partner, but again through painful experiences, have come to realise that sometimes things aren't forever. I have worked / studied so hard in the past 10 years to get to the point of being approached for positions like this, and I have made a lot of sacrafices. I have been selfish in the past, and want to do things right now. I don't want to hurt my g/f - I want to be with her. She even said today she would like to go there for 2 - 3 months and see how it goes before making a decision. Unfortunately with a full time job that is just not realistic - it is all or nothing. My employer would not allow me more than 3 weeks off at a time, and she says this would not be long enough. She also loves travelling, and has done a number of voluntary activities overseas instead of an annual vacation..... so she is not someone who just wants to sit at home, she just seems to really be worried about not being able to see friends and family when she wants. I am worried about that too, but there is nothing stopping us from coming back once or twice a year, and for friends and family to visit us. With Web cam and e-mail you can stay in regular touch also..... I really am thinking about her, otherwise I would not be stressing about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 She has very very realistic concerns and they should not be trivialized just for the spirit of adventure. Moving that far away is difficult if her parents get sick. Back in the late 90's I was a 6 hour drive from my parents and couldn't go back home when my father got sick and was hospitalized because I was dealing with some job insecurity. It is rough not being able to help out. I also knew someone who had moved accross the world and then when her mother was dying she was on her way home when her mother actually died. Also, it is one thing to say she wouldn't have a problem getting a job down there but quite another matter when she is actually looking and doesn't have citizenship or the job market is tight. You would go down WITH a job but would she have her job in place before going down? As for what you are offering her...that is really a byproduct of living YOUR dream..you are not really offering her that...you are offering her a choice.. come live with me and fulfill my dream or stay there and our relationship might be over. She loves to travel and loves adventures...but there is a world of difference between travelling for a few months and making a permanent move. She is not disputing adventures...she is having a problem with the huge risk of permanently walking away from family, friends etc. Webcam is a poor substitute for being in the same town or within a 4 hour flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiteless Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Crazyaboutdogs.... I am offering her the opportunity to experience a whole new country with me.... something that many people long to do, but are not able to. I am offering her to come with me, to share a future together, with the view to setting up a home and family.... in a beautiful part of the world. Some people may long to do it, but not everyone, and obviously not your GF. You couldn't get me to move out of country for anything. I need to be close enough to my mom that if anything happened, I could be there for her. She is about a 2 hour flight from me currently, and even that is painful. I wouldn't leave the city where I live, but any further is a deal breaker for me. For some people, family is VERY important and something they won't give up. My mom is one of my best friends. There's nothing wrong with wanting to live in a beautiful part of the world, but the grass is always greener. I know some folks who moved to NZ, and it is a TOTAL culture change. It was difficult for some of them to adjust. And yes some of them were from the UK. Just because it seems like a dreamland doesn't mean it is. It is like the folks I know who idolize moving to Canada. Ohh, free healthcare! Not having to deal with annoying things like conservatism and other things going on with the American government. What they don't realise is that ALL countries have their issues. They only want to hear the good side of Canada, where as I was engaged to a Canadian for years and I saw how the health system worked. I saw the politics, the prejudices, etc. None of the people I know who wanted to move to Canada would allow themselves to believe these things. You have a great opportunity and I am not denying that. You also have a great relationship. The two just may not be compatible and you need to decide which is more important. Unless your girlfriend is 100% on board, resentment could end up breaking you two up, and then she is stuck there. The opposite is also true. If you give up this opportunity and you are not 100% ok with it, the same will happen. It just is going to take a lot of soul searching on YOUR part, vs. spending that energy trying to convince your GF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allypally Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm in exactly the same boat - have been granted my visa for Canada and my bf has a widowed elderly mother who he understandably doesn't want to leave behind. We both stand to lose out either way. This has been the most stressful and unhappy time of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Certainly if you have discussed having the family and have agreed that you will be the breadwinner then that means she is going to have to accept some level of moving. Unless of course your jobs for the next 40 years are going to be in the town you live in. If she wants to be close to her family ask her what her limits are then. Is a 1 hour flight away too much? How about 2 hours? 1 day? Most people have little understanding of what it means to move away. I hear all sorts of irrational comments about having to stay home vs moving away. At the end of the day its their comments that apply to their lives. I accept that and so must you. For what ever reasons she wants to stay home, close to family. Like I said before, what if they move? Would she move with them? Ask you to give up your job to move with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The bolded statement assumes one must give up family when they move away. This is untrue. You said you live a 2 hour flight away from your mother. How often do you visit with your mother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waveseer Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yes, but it's HIS adventure and she is basically the tag along to fit into HIS dreams. She is welcome to make it into an adventure of her own too. What else would she do while he's at work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I can say the same thing in the reverse...yes, lots of people have little understanding of what it means to move away and they trivialize it thinking it is such a simple matter...piece of cake. Yeah, I remember how hard it was when I had to move to yet another city for work and I would get all these people who never moved a day in their life and have still never moved talking about the "adventure" and how if they had the chance they would do it (except they never looked for the chance because they themselves didn't want to move, it was just easier to be an armchair quarterback when they were not the ones uprooting their life for the umpteenth time). As for going to see family when you have moved away...unless you are independently wealthy or can grow your own set of wings, it is often not financially feasible to go home to visit frequently, nor is it very practical if you have a job or, if you have children to take care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I guess the old adage applies: cant judge it until you try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Vacationing in New Zealand, or any other place, is way different from living there. As far as thinking about this as a couple, it is not successful if someone says "i am moving to another country" and the other has to comply or be dumped. It is about a couple fulfilling their mutual dreams together. What are HER dreams? Are your dreams really about stability or are they about New Zealand? You can achieve stability in your country. Also, having lots of land is nice, but I can attest to the fact that sometimes the maintenance of said land is unknown until you have it and then you wonder why you did it. I went from a city in cramped conditions to "land" in another state and once I got there and got established, I realized with the wags available in the area, it was not affordable unless you made a killing at selling a home in a higher market. Personally, I would not move accross the country or around the world with a man unless we were married or there was a ring and a date. and/or that was a big dream of mine too. If you are thinking about the future of the two of you together, I think that you can't put the cart before the horse. You have to really examine if this is the woman you want to be with. And does she want to be with you the same way? My husband accepted a job in another state, bought a house, etc, and then proposed to me a few months after we moved. When he left me, since the home was purchased just before our marriage, it was premarital property so I ended up homeless, carless ("our" car was in his name), and destitute (he closed the bank accounts and since I was his assistant in his business my job evaporated too). And because of an illness that he claimed preventing him from making anything in the future, I got nothing to set my life back up again. I had no one supportive of me who wasn't a long distance call or a day or two drive away. I had friends, but the few that I could say "i am in trouble, can I stay at your house to sort myself out" were out of town. As far as a person who is foreign going to another country, if she lost her job, she may lose her right to stay there, etc. LOTS to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 .unless you are independently wealthy or can grow your own set of wings, it is often not financially feasible to go home to visit frequently, nor is it very practical if you have a job or, if you have children to take care of. When I moved out of state the first time, I went back to see my family twice a year, and usually my parents would come out once or twice a year to visit me. But then it became less and less when things got financially tight. I went 2 years without seeing any family member. I went back for a wedding and because of an unexpected emergency, i couldn't go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyaboutdogs Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 This is exactly the kind of thing I see happen very often to women who move to follow their boyfriend. When two people are married there tends to be an investment in "us" and there is discussion as a couple whether or not to take a job in another city. However, in the case of two people who are not married and just living together, there tends to be a view of acting like a single person not as part of a couple. An opportunity comes up and it becomes "this is my life and this is what I want to do"..there is lip service to talking to the other person to get their feedback but in the end they still view themselves as single and not really answerable to their partner's wishes. I get the sense of that with the arguments the OP is pointing out...there really is no sense of the couple nature...there is talk of "well, if our relationship doesn't work then I will regret taking this opportunity". If this was a marriage, most married people wouldn't say "well, if this marriage doesn't work then I will regret taking this opportunity". There is more of a commitment to the partner. This relationship is 15 months old...if either of you think it is too soon to actually get married and solidify the commitment, then why wouldn't it be too soon for her to pick up stakes and move to where you want to follow your dream, giving up what she wants for her life in order to be with you. Perhaps you two should be talking about marriage first before talking about moving down to a foreign country together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I dont think anyone is mistaking a vacation for living there. There are however many things to consider. Lifestyle is one of them. For instance if I am not mistaken New Zealand has universal healthcare. The US does not. For raising a family this could make a huge difference. From teachers I know that were from the US and doing an exchange in Austalia/NZ the school system is better. That can make a difference in raising a family. Being closer to your family can offer you more support. However in my experience having lived in many countries (including the US) over the last 8 years its not that difficult to find friends in support in other countries. No different than moving down an street or 2 or to another state. Typically what I find is most people tend to "lose" friends as they get older. Out of all the people I know I have one of the highest rates of contact with childhood friends. That is dispite moving abroad. I have only added in the richness of friends. I know I have friends I can count on in many parts of the world. In fact I can say I have been helped by complete strangers that didnt speak my language, out of the goodness of their heart. Friendship and goodness of heart know no boundaries. Knowing someone as a friend might mean you know someone "better" than you would a stranger. Its certainly no guide to how they will treat you. Like I said until the OP tries it he will never know. If the GF has her boundaries set and wont then he has to decide if she is the one for him. Someone said they would choose love over moving. This is silly as love has nothing to do with it. Compatibility does. And if the OP and his GF do not have compatible goals in mind no amount of love is going to change the fact that their goals are incompatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well..keep in mind with Universal Health Care...if they are not citizens, etc, they may not qualify. It is different living in a country and being a citizen versus living there on a work permit, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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