Low-balling and salary - need feedback

[Double J]

Hi,

 

I created a thread about this very topic recently but wanted a bit more feedback.

 

After searching nearly 6 months for a job, I finally landed one about a week and a half ago. Although that may seem like a long time searching, I actually had five offers presented prior to this one. I turned each down for different reasons (excessive travel, job didn't relate to my field, abusive working conditions, etc.) I am very thankful for this opportunity, as my frustration had slowly been turning into depression over the past few weeks.

 

The company is in an exciting industry; the position seems interesting and it's in line with my career interests. Although small, the company is experiencing major growth and is on a major hiring spree for various positions. The benefits are decent, but they should get a lot better as the company continues to expand.

 

During the first interview, the interviewer asked that I provide a salary range. I gave him a broad one to avoid going either too low or too high. They offered the position but the salary they proposed just barely fell within that range.

 

I wasn't satisfied with the "low-balling" and told them I wanted to negotiate. I desired to negotiate for the halfway range (which is what the other companies offered). But my gut told me that I should proceed carefully. That first interviewer made a comment ("that range may be too high") that made me think twice about asking for what I really wanted. I certainly didn't want them to rescind the offer or refocus on someone else who would settle for less money. So I asked for 2-3k more (which would in turn be 2-3k less than what the others offered) and they eventually agreed to 2k more.

 

I don't think that 3k less can dramatically change my way of life. I'll still be able to cover my bills and have some money left over. It really isn't a huge deal, is it? But if that's the case, why does it bother me a bit? I keep thinking about it and feel a bit bummed out that I ended up settling for the company that offered the least (even though the job itself is probably the most interesting one, offering the most enjoyable type of atmosphere). The last offer I got was in late March.

 

I graduated in December and really don't have much job/real-world experience - just a few short-term internships/part-time jobs. This was my first time negotiating salary for a full-time job offer and perhaps a more seasoned job-hunter amongst you all will tell me that I should have requested what I truly wanted. After the tough time I've gone through these past few months, I basically guarded this job with my life and this was my logic: "I'd rather get a job and earn a tiny bit less than risk this one and ending up with absolutely nothing." I think that the first interviewer's comment, the feeble economy and a recent string of rejections would have prompted most people to act with such caution.

 

I would have had more traction to negotiate for more money if other offers were in the pipeline. Unfortunately, there are none on the horizon now. That is why I felt this opportunity was too precious to screw it up in any way.

 

I plan to work at this company 12-20 months, at least. If after a year they haven't given me any increases I think I'll start to look around again. My main goal with this job is to get some valuable full-time experience in my field. It should help me get a better job the second time around.

 

I'd appreciate any feedback. Would you have acted in such a way, or would you have done anything differently? Why?

[Caldus]

I graduated in December and really don't have much job/real-world experience - just a few short-term internships/part-time jobs.

 

That is much better than most graduates out there these days. A lot of the time you will see people graduating college without any real world experience. Employers look for that more than anything else. One time, I was at a job fair. I slipped a copy of my resume to some guy at a booth for an IT company. Seconds after I walked away the guy approached me and told me that my qualifications were great. I was pretty sure he was referring to my internship experience the summer before. Double J, the "just a few short-term internships/part-time jobs" are what most of these employers are impressed with more than anything else, trust me.

 

This was my first time negotiating salary for a full-time job offer and perhaps a more seasoned job-hunter amongst you all will tell me that I should have requested what I truly wanted. After the tough time I've gone through these past few months, I basically guarded this job with my life and this was my logic: "I'd rather get a job and earn a tiny bit less than risk this one and ending up with absolutely nothing." I think that the first interviewer's comment, the feeble economy and a recent string of rejections would have prompted most people to act with such caution.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly did you settle for? You could PM me the info if you want (or not, it doesn't matter to me). What range did you give them and what did you end up getting?

 

I would have had more traction to negotiate for more money if other offers were in the pipeline. Unfortunately, there are none on the horizon now. That is why I felt this opportunity was too precious to screw it up in any way.

 

Don't feel so bad about it all. It's your first longer-term full time job, right? I was pretty much told what my salary would be when I was offered a full-time job. I didn't even give a range. They gave me it. But I was satisfied with it because it was pretty much the average for what an entry-level software engineer would make. So I had no complaints. In the end, a few thousand dollars less a year is not going to kill you. I mean just do the math. Divide by your salary by 12 to get what you get every month. Then divide that by 7 to get what you get every week. And so on. In the end, it's not a huge difference, is it?

 

I plan to work at this company 12-20 months, at least. If after a year they haven't given me any increases I think I'll start to look around again. My main goal with this job is to get some valuable full-time experience in my field. It should help me get a better job the second time

 

Be careful here. It doesn't look too good on your resume to only be working somewhere for a year and then just leave, you know? In some cases you will probably be OK I suppose. I would definitely take what you can get out of this job, that I can agree with wholeheartedly.

 

In the end, if you enjoy your job enough, you're not going to give a crap if you get a few thousand dollars less every year. Satisfaction of your job to me has much more value than your exact salary.

[avman]

As a new graduate, I'm afraid you don't have much leverage in negotiations. You were able to get a couple thousand more which is good. And comparing them to other position offers isn't an apples to apples comparison. The other positions had significant enough disadvantages where you turned them all down. So that says something about why their offers may have been higher.

 

If the position looks good, the salary is in your range, and there is opportunity for advancement then you are in good shape. Everybody would like to make more money. But you have to consider the whole package that comes with the position. Making a little less money in a great position is usually a much better choice than making more money in a position that is killing you.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Yes, companies don't pay top dollar for new graduates. You're unproven without much experience as far as they are concerned, so why pay for it? Some graduates from Ivy League university can demand top dollar, but most new graduates are expected to start at the bottom for the salary range for whatever job they are starting.

 

Many companies too have fixed salary ranges for particular jobs, so even if they wanted to give you more, they can't.

 

So you might have done as well as can be expected considering the circumstances.

 

Next time you negotiate for a job, don't give them a range, give them a number that is a couple thousand more than what you want. Then when they offer $2K less, you get what you want. But make sure you know what you can really get, because if you're way off and ask for too much, it can put them off and they won't offer.

 

You can easily get a $2-3K raise in a year, so you'll be at what you wanted in no time.

[Lily04]

I think you sound really reasonable with this, and I would agree with the others that you don't have much bargaining leverage at this point. It's especially tough as you don't know the caliber of the other candidates - they could have potentially turned you down & gotten someone cheaper who was almost or just as good as you. To be honest, I wouldn't even really negotiate a first job... for the experience, I'll take anything. A lot of recent college grads will actually go unpaid for the experience - hence, many internships are unpaid. I'd agree with the person above who said that the internships likely distinguished you from a lot of other candidates, even if short-term. I have to admit that my college didn't have a co-op/internship program (only the engineers have it, and maybe some other programs I don't know about) but our program did not. I think it really would have benefitted me if I went somewhere else that had that option, as it really would have given me a headstart into my career choice & given me some valuable experience. Don't second guess or put yourself down for your internships. Internships nowadays are very competitive & hard to get, and as I said, I know many are unpaid. So if you are negotiating, you should play that up and use it as a selling point, not a liability.

 

Good luck with the job, it sounds great! I'm the same age as you - just graduated in May - and also looking for a full-time job and know how hard it can be. I actually graduated from the top college in the country but am settled to looking for retail!! It bugs me, but whatever... due to the competition & bad economy, I have to look where I can get. I'm also studying for the LSAT anyway, so I don't necessarily want something too strenuous or too many hours for the summer. After August, I'll probably start looking more seriously. What field are you in, btw?

[annie24]

yes, i would have handled this differently. i would be pretty happy with taking the job, and would understand that the 2-3K a year difference is made up for by the fact that you don't have to travel, you have better working conditions, etc..... personally, i think you are being a bit selfish or overestimating your worth. but then again, i did read a study recently that said that men are more willing to negotiate harder than women for their salary.... but that when women do negotiate harder, they are seen in a bad light, and the wind up losing. interesting, because i have had that experience before when i worked at an internship (for free!) and asked for a pretty reasonable request (of a few more vacation days, and i had someone who promised to cover that shift). really bull-crap.

 

anyways, i agree with avman. i think the money isn't as important as liking the job and having it be a good fit. if they like you, you can ask for a raise in 6 months to 12 months. i wouldn't push it. i'd just be happy to get a good job that's a good fit. there are many people out there right now who have been laid off and are searching for jobs unsuccessfully.

[Lily04]

why are women seen in a bad light when negotiating? I never heard of that... if they do it well & tastefully, they should be OK.

[annie24]

link removed

[Lily04]

I see... that makes sense. Good negotiating takes patience & poise and innate sensibility...a certain knack for timing and emotional overture if necessary. You have to appear "human". I think the problem with women is that they may avoid looking human, and in building rapport you want to do that. Men may do so easier & more strategically without looking like biatches...

[Double J]

Thank you for all your responses.

 

Lily, I'm in Marketing/Communications. I wish you luck in finding a good job as well.

 

I've realized I'm the type of person that second guesses my decisions a lot, always assessing the pros and cons of decisions I make. I guess it's time to accept the fact that the previous offers are no longer there and I have to think about "now" and the "future."

 

The job search has been so frustrating that any job is better than no job at all.

[Lily04]

Thank you for all your responses.

 

Lily, I'm in Marketing/Communications. I wish you luck in finding a good job as well.

 

I've realized I'm the type of person that second guesses my decisions a lot, always assessing the pros and cons of decisions I make. I guess it's time to accept the fact that the previous offers are no longer there and I have to think about "now" and the "future."

 

The job search has been so frustrating that any job is better than no job at all.

 

I'm a lot like that as well - incredibly indecisive & always second guessing/re-evaluating. It causes a lot of regret, which isn't good for the soul....if you constantly think "what if" it will cause a lot of unnecessary stress, so I suggest just living in the now as well, and moving on with the opportunity you have (which does sound great!) Everyone needs a starting point. I mean, I may be qualified for some junior analyst jobs (which I am getting interviews for) but in order to get a foot in the door (if I don't get those) I may just have to start as a mere assistant, or mail clerk!! I applied for one job in the field I'm interested in that was simply a library clerk shelving books, lol. You can imagine the pay is not excellent for a full-time permanent gig, but quite decent (government job so it can't be that underpaid, I imagine..) and ultimately it just gets a foot in the door which is really important in that field. In government it's largely about the "people you know" rather than the experience or book knowledge you haev. I imagine in marketing it may be the same, so don't get too picky about the $$s on a first job. I'm sure you'll do great!

[Double J]

Thanks Lily.

 

I'm sure you'll find a great opportunity yourself.

 

Hey, I just finished wading through that other post you created. Please shake off that negative attitude. You are full of life and you will find that job very soon - I guarantee it. I'm surprised the person who created that thread is the very one providing such helpful advice in mine. Listen to your own advice and believe in yourself.

[Lily04]

Thanks Lily.

 

I'm sure you'll find a great opportunity yourself.

 

Hey, I just finished wading through that other post you created. Please shake off that negative attitude. You are full of life and you will find that job very soon - I guarantee it. I'm surprised the person who created that thread is the very one providing such helpful advice in mine. Listen to your own advice and believe in yourself.

 

Thanks Double J. I suppose sometimes it is easier to give advice than to change your attitude yourself... I'm trying to think for the better & get my name out there though, and apply for a variety of jobs. Today I applied to mostly secretarial/receptionist positions, and tomorrow I'll apply for one as a front desk person at a hotel... not sure if I have the right "look" for that, but I'm giving it a shot anyway.

 

I'm a bit anxious at this time about the government job I applied for, in the sector I wanted... I didn't even care about the money so much (although I assume it pays well - they never told me the salary) but it's really the type of work I'd love to get experience in, so I didn't care. Would be a perfect summer job for me... I'll likely find out if I got it between tomorrow and Friday. Another thing is that a lot of jobs are apparently gotten through contacts/connections, but I find it really difficult to ask my old co-workers for leads or to work at their company, because... I don't know. I guess embarrassment and then the whole "law school/grad school" talk comes up, and it makes me a bit uncomfortable. Oh well......i'm sure i'll find something soon enough, even if it is short-term gigs with an agency or something... lol. You are lucky you found a full-time job though!

 

I need to start LSAT studying for the fall exam soonish though... so that's my next preoccupation... that whole process of applying doesn't seem as daunting as it used to, for some reason... perhaps because I've stopped caring? The fear of failure doesn't really occur to me anymore as much as it used to... I will just go on, and see what happens. I may not get in....I have to re-evaluate my life at that time.... That's why experience is really so vital - even if you don't get into the grad program of your choice, you can potentially build experience to add to your portfolio if you apply again the next year. Otherwise you're just back at square one - I'm personally a bit scared of that happening.