Ex just called in tears

[theredrocket]

CAD,

 

ok I am on the same page as you. I absolutely agree with you when it involves another person. I personally would hope that I never disrespect myself enough to chase after someone who developed feelings for another man while with me. And I completely agree that as long as a dumper is in another relationship the dumpee should essentially not bother giving them the time of day

 

I guess the part I struggle with or where I was confused with your advice is when it's really no ones or more accurately both people's fault but without anything like cheating, lying etc. In those cases I think that where enough time has passed, and healing has been accomplished and self happiness found it's ok for the dumpee to initiate contact if they so desire. yes it involves the risk of opening up old wounds.

 

And to bring this back to Eyes, I really think you will regret it and feel worse about yourself in the long run if you allow yourself to be used like this. which is exactly what is happening. regardless of where the lizards are, it doesn't change the fact that she is with another man. think about that, when you get done talking with her, she is going to crawl into bed with him. what do you think that tells her she can get away with? Yes you semi manipulated her into contacting you with the whole blog thing but I really wish you reconsider this.

[gee]

Hi Eyes, most here have given you good advice on your matter. I hope this turns out good for YOU! keep us posted as this unfolds. Take care and good luck!

[wtm78]

eyes, take it as it comes. take your time. boundaries got to be enforce since she is with another man. and you got to let her know that.

 

i wish you all the best. proceed with caution..

[postscript]

and I don't want her to think its back to "she says 'Jump', I say 'how high'?"

 

GOD do i know what that is like. been hearing that phrase a LOT lately.

the sad thing is that i would still do everything for him, even though he is the least deserving person of it.

[EyesOnThePrize]

Wow...Okay, first of all, to CAD and JadedStar and others, it seems you choose to equate "having a conversation with her" with "chasing after her." And, as for it being a competition...of course its a competition. Every time you ask someone out you are competing for affection, every time you go to work and have to sell more than the next guy, its a competition. Life is a competition. At least that's my standpoint. And I think that you are seeing things through your own filters. Believe me, I appreciate the input, and I don't think I've given her any more power over me. If I believed she left me for slimeball, that would be one thing...I have not believed that for a long time. I believe she left me because she felt trapped, and that he was an opportunist who moved in then, and that because she is terrified about being alone (I found out yesterday, she has never in her life been alone), she was receptive to him. And my intention isn't to split them up. She won't need my help with that, IMO. My intention is to have her see me as a better alternative in the long run because of the person I am becoming and whenever that split comes, she is likely to want to come back. The thing is, that process isn't just making me more attractive to her, its making me more attractive in general, and she may miss her chance. And that's 100% in my control. I can wait for her for years, or I can wait for her for days. Or I can not wait for her. I believe I have the upper hand now, because I now choose what time of mine to give her. And she knows it, and it scares her. I'll get into the call itself in the next post, and this call was never about a reconciliation for me. It was a barometer call.

[wtm78]

My intention is to have her see me as a better alternative in the long run because of the person I am becoming and whenever that split comes, she is likely to want to come back. The thing is, that process isn't just making me more attractive to her, its making me more attractive in general, and she may miss her chance. And that's 100% in my control. I can wait for her for years, or I can wait for her for days. Or I can not wait for her. I believe I have the upper hand now, because I now choose what time of mine to give her. And she knows it, and it scares her. I'll get into the call itself in the next post, and this call was never about a reconciliation for me. It was a barometer call.

 

barometer call.. good one..

 

i think the guys here just want to make sure you dont get yourself hurt again in the process. if you think you can handle it. by all means... it is your happiness you are seeking.. and no one can tell you otherwise.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

It sounds to me like she needs a saviour more than a partner. I wouldn't totally blame the other guy...if she is that needy that she grabs anything then she needs to sort herself out. While you may want to show her all the changes you have made...what changes is she showing you..she is needy, dependent, can't be alone and thereforeeee grabs the next person who comes along? I am sure she has great qualities too, but I think you are selling yourself short trying to entice her back with all your changes when she just seems like a pathetic, needy person who has no interest in changing and will just glom on to anyone who will be there to "fix her". We all have your best interests at heart, but from your posts it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that you have the upper hand while your words actually show that you are willing to take whatever scraps she offers. Sorry for being so blunt.

[EyesOnThePrize]

Okay, so I set a time for the call, got her voice mail, didn't leave a message. She texted me back a couple of minutes later that she would call soon. I put a time limit on how long I'd wait for the call before telling her that I needed to reschedule it, and she did end up calling back a few minutes later. I had decided going into the call that my purpose in speaking to her was to get a barometer on where she was, and see if I could figure out why she was so upset this morning. It really wasn't about us getting back together (although we did touch on that a bit). My goal was to basically detach my emotions, and for the most part, I think I was successful.

 

We ended up speaking about an hour and a quarter, and it was a very nice conversation. Her upset this morning seems to have been prompted by my LJ post about the cat, and her realizing that she really misses her old life. She's in a transition now, and I get the impression that while she thinks the people she is meeting there are for the most part nice, they are not "her type" of people. She was telling me about a church pageant in which her bf's daughter was appearing and how it was in a mega-church (well, she said it wasn't a mega-church, but still sat something like 7,000) and how she didn't feel comfortable there. Mostly I let her talk, with a lot of "okay's" and "I understands" and the like, for about the first 20 minutes or so. I find it odd that I'm not pining away for her. Its really nice to hear her voice, and I like hearing about what's going on, and I don't think she's at the heart of the call yet.

 

Then she starts getting into how tight her finances are, and how she doesn't know the area, and how she lives in a dry county, and how her new health insurance sucks, and how her car insurance rates went up, and how the weather is scary to her...basically, it doesn't sound like she's having a great time. She does say she visited her new school and she really likes it and the area, but that its supposed to be a dead area in the summer, so its not good to live there. Then she starts to break down, talking about how the school is so important to her, and when she found out that she could basically only teach in Nevada with a degree from UNLV, that she knew she had to move. She wants to be able to go wherever she wants when she's done college and not just be stuck with Nevada. Somewhere around here we kind of diverged into us. I was telling her that I understood why she chose to move, and that I thought she was doing a great thing in taking on this challenge and that I believe in her. She's happy to hear this, because she thinks that nobody believes in her and nobody is there for her. I tell her that if she has to be elsewhere, its okay, because she's still in my thoughts now matter where she is and she tells me she thinks about me all the time and that she still loves me and I tell her I still love her, too. I told her that I would rather be with the person I loved than in any particular city, and she seem comforted to hear that, although I also made it clear that this was a non-issue at this point, because she and I weren't in that position. She talked about wanting to really prove to me that she could get this done, because I was such an important part of things. Now this actually smacked a bit of parent-child to me, however I have accepted that in many ways that she did see me as a father figure as well as a husband. We stayed in this zone for about 10 minutes before I realized that a) I was starting to make the conversation more about me, which wasn't my intent, b) I didn't think it was appropriate to talk about this now and c) we were both starting to get emotional, so I switched gears a bit, and told her how I loved her even more because she asked for the divorce, and she surprisingly agreed. I said I didn't think I would have changed if not, and she agreed (a bit of an 'ouch', and also probably true). She's happy I'm changing.

 

I ask her how things are going with the new bf. She says they are going okay, that he's not around much because he's always traveling for work. She says he's someone its easy for her to talk to, and that they have things in common. She also says he's still one of the very few people she knows there. Basically, he sounds more like a convenience than anything, which is something I've suspected for a while. I'm not saying she doesn't care about him, and never once has she referred to him in any dreamy, starry eyed manner. He's just her safety net. Oddly enough, it didn't bother me to hear about him, partially because of the previous part of the conversation, partially because I'm feeling good about myself, so why would I let someone like that bring me down?

 

She tells me more about what's going on for her, and she wants to know more about what's going on for me, so I kind of fill her in on some things, and then I tell her she's going to be an aunt today (her sister is having a baby today - induced labor) and she's happy to hear that. The next 15-20 minutes are my life, then we spend about 5-10 minutes talking about the cat she is getting. At the end she tells me it was really good talking to me, and that we'll talk soon. I tell her that we'll talk again "at some point." I plan to continue to dictate the level of contact we have. We close the call with another round of "I love you"s.

 

So, how do I feel afterwards? I feel good. There were no huge surprises in the call, since this is more or less how I expected things to play out here. I didn't expect her to be telling me that she totally hated things there and/or that she had broken up with the bf. I think she was scared and lonely and reaching out. I didn't get my hopes up for a reconciliation, although I'll admit it was nice to know she still has the same strong feelings for me. While we did become emotional for part of it, we didn't argue or raise voices once. It was an amazingly relaxed conversation...her lizard was very safe, so was mine. I followed link removed very well, IMO, although I went on with the conversation a bit longer than I had planned. I think she would have been happy to talk longer, and in truth, I would have, too, and I wanted to make sure that I was the one who called an end to things.

 

My feelings on the overall situation really haven't changed. I am concentrating on myself, just taking life as it comes. She is doing her thing down there, and I have no idea where our future lies. What I do believe is that its not a dark future for us. Whether as friends or lovers, I think we will be part of each other's life for a long time.

 

I haven't decided when I'll contact her next. At least a week, maybe 2, from now. I think it depends on when she reaches out next. I don't want anything that looks like pushing And given that this was her 5th or 6th attempt to contact me since she left, I'm sure that she will be in touch again. However, she now gets to be in touch on my schedule, not hers.

[wtm78]

i think you shouldnt be so availiable for her..

[CatsMeeoow]

I can see that you are being her emotional crutch... and she'll continue to use you until she has her feet firmly planted where she is... and then toss you aside.

 

I know how much you want to see if differently... to mean different stuff but it doesn't.

 

I think you need to let her squalor a bit... let her fail miserably... let her hate it there... you holding her hand is giving her just enough to get it together without you.

 

You do what you must but I think you are being walked over....

[EyesOnThePrize]

CAD - I don't think you're being blunt, I think you're telling me what you believe, and I think that's great. I believe I understand my ex very well. I believe I understand her now better than I did before the divorce. And I believe I understand the dynamic between the two of us very well. You say that you have my best interests at heart, and I don't see it that way. I think if you had my best interests at heart, you would attempt to get my sense and understand why I am acting the way I am, and not put your life experiences on me and tell me what you'd do in this situation. I believe that if you truly had my best interests at heart, you would want to validate me, not invalidate me. From you I hear the chorus of "don't be a trailblazer, stay on the straight and narrow." Well, that doesn't make sense to me. My ex is an amazingly complex woman, and has some amazingly complex issues. I am aware of these issues, and my eyes are wide open in what I'm doing. I understand the risks, and more importantly, the potential rewards. And she's worth that to me, for reasons that make sense to me, and, because its me, that's all that should matter.

 

And here's a thought. I believe that through my many hundreds of posts, most people can clearly see that I have very strong feelings for my ex. So, what would prompt me to put a lot of stock in the words of someone who refers to her as "pathetic"? In my mind, that's sort of you asking me for my opinion on music, and me giving you my opinion, but constantly telling you that a band you've told me repeatedly is one of your favorites is crappy and not worth space they take up on anyone's iPod. Would you really put a lot of credence in my opinions at that point?

[EyesOnThePrize]

i think you shouldnt be so availiable for her..

 

wtm - I don't know what availability I'll have for her. Its been 27 days since I spoke to her. I may not speak to her for another 27 days or 30 days or whatever. I just have no idea at this point. I'm not marking anything on my calendar. I want to be "minimally available", and I'm still working on defining that for myself.

[postscript]

I think it's good that you're really considering her and your feelings, even though you have no need to consider hers at all.

I also think it's good that you aren't rushing into contacting her again. I know how that phone call must have felt and it would have broken my heart as much as it mended it, if that makes sense.

I think contacting her in a good two weeks would be ideal. Just something short and sweet.

I think she needs you a lot more than she should, though. (But I don't blame her)

[wtm78]

wtm - I don't know what availability I'll have for her. Its been 27 days since I spoke to her. I may not speak to her for another 27 days or 30 days or whatever. I just have no idea at this point. I'm not marking anything on my calendar. I want to be "minimally available", and I'm still working on defining that for myself.

 

eyes, i am not in this and probably i do not know the full picture. but base on what you have posted. it seems like she is scared of what is happening in her life now and she is turning to you because there was a history between you two. and she know and can be certain that you are there to catch her when she fall. but that was only true when the two of you are in a relationship. but now as divorcee i am sorry to say you should not give her that exclusivity. and that is what boundary is all about. you cant have sex and not be in a relaionship. that will be call a fling. she cant come crying to you and expect you to comfort her and dont want to be with you. that is her new bf's job. not yours. IMO, if you want to get her back. you got to define your boundary, and fast, and keep to it. you told her you only had 30mins, but you end up talking to her 1 over hours. bro, you got to cut it short. if she wants that comfort, that safe zone, there is a price she has to pay. she is not going to get it for free. and coming back to you is that price. as your nickname goes eyes on the prize. because that is the price to pay to get that prize. bro, you may not like to hear. but i will have to say it again. you should not be too availiable for her. and i validate your concerns. and i understand what you are going through. but i hope you can make a good decision after we give you all the possiblities. i dont want you to regret..

[EyesOnThePrize]

I think it's good that you're really considering her and your feelings, even though you have no need to consider hers at all.

 

I don't get a lot of comments about "let him/her suffer." To me, that's not how you express love for someone. To me, expressing love is not about beating someone into submission. To me, its about encouraging both parties to rise to great heights. I know these comments make sense to the people who say them, and sometimes I wonder if maybe that viewpoint on love is why they are here in the first point. I know that I used to take that position and I don't think it helped me. Originally, I wasn't going to send my ex this cat because "I didn't want to reward her for what she had done." It took me several weeks to get to "Waitasec...you say you love her, and you want to hurt her by making her life more difficult? What sort of sick love is that?"

 

I also think it's good that you aren't rushing into contacting her again. I know how that phone call must have felt and it would have broken my heart as much as it mended it, if that makes sense.

 

I know it makes sense to you, and to me, that's good enough. I think I get some of your sense, and I think my sense was similar. I was nervous about the call because I was afraid of a similar reaction in me. As it turned out, my fears were overblown.

 

I think contacting her in a good two weeks would be ideal. Just something short and sweet.

 

There's a part of me that wants to contact her now, and I don't know when exactly I'll have next contact with her. I don't expect it to be before she has contact with me. Now, I do have to send her an alimony check next week, but I'm not counting that. lol.

 

I think she needs you a lot more than she should, though. (But I don't blame her)

 

I think that was a compliment...if so, thanks.

 

I think she is doing a cling-back with me right now, and I think one way NC/LC benefits her is to show her that she can do okay on her own, and that me not being physically present doesn't mean she's worthless to me or that I'm going to abandon her. As I learn more about her BPD, I'm realizing that this is never going to be simple until she gets professional help. I think I can have the most wonderful intentions and intentions won't erase her emotional scars. There is a technique about which I am learning in dealing with someone with BPD called SET (Support, Empathy and Truth) that I hope will improve our communications long-term. However, I don't think that even that would be enough without her taking more steps, and if she doesn't, I don't think I could ever have a healthy relationship with her. So, every night I put it out to the universe that she'll decide to get some professional help for her own sake.

[EyesOnThePrize]

wtm - Yeah, I think I kind of blew it on the time thing...I think I did some damage control by calling the end to the convo, and I still changed my own boundary. I recognize boundaries as a weak spot with me, and a lot of the work I'm doing on me now is to better recognize and respect boundaries, and how to better set my own.

[wtm78]

wtm - Yeah, I think I kind of blew it on the time thing...I think I did some damage control by calling the end to the convo, and I still changed my own boundary. I recognize boundaries as a weak spot with me, and a lot of the work I'm doing on me now is to better recognize and respect boundaries, and how to better set my own.

 

recognizing that, you won half the battle already..

you are almost there. all the way my friend...

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Having someone's best interests at heart doesn't always mean feeding them what they want to hear. The bottom line is that after she gets off the phone with you, she is making love with another man. If you can handle that...good for you. If you think she is an amazingly well put together woman who has your best interests at heart well, I don't know her so I can't say...but on the outside looking in I don't think so. I don't know if she is considerably younger than you because you said she views you as a father figure as well and that never really concerned you...that speaks volumes to me about why you are accepting of this kind of scenario right now. It is almost like the proverbial prodigal son who goes off and then eventually comes back. The thing is this relationship seems more about co-dependence than something healthy. That's just my opinion and if the way things are going now makes you content and happy...well that is the only thing that matters.

[wtm78]

The thing is this relationship seems more about co-dependence than something healthy.

 

CAD, what do you mean by the statement?

 

shouldnt two people in a relationship be inter-dependent of each other?

[postscript]

I feel like I have been given an ultimatum in my relationship - as you described "being beaten into submission". That's how I feel - and I am yet to come up with a way to explain that to my "partner".. Without feeling selfish, without feeling needy, without being pushy. But it just feels like there's no compassion on his half by being like "This is how I am and how I'm gonna treat you, take it or leave it" and I feel like he has no interest whatsoever to compromise because he knows I will NEVER leave it. He can do with me as he wishes, pretty much.

 

Anyway, i think you're doing fine man. You're incredibly strong. My little nephew said to me the other day "Don't be sad kim, you gotta have guts!" and it was so true and it really touched me, because I wasn't trying hard enough to be strong. I didn't think it was ok for me to be on my own. You've got guts man and that's probably why you're doing so well. You know how to handle this situation.

[wtm78]

I know everyone is well-meaning and everyone who has posted just wants to be sure you don't get hurt, but in my estimation, they're being a bit too hard on you.

 

Relationships are complicated, and every relationship is different. Every person is different. You are doing the best you can, and I think you've shown (and continue to show) admirable restraint in your approach to your relationship with your ex-wife. The truth of the matter, I think, is that you love her and you're going to continue to love her... and your behavior is simply a reflection of that, while also trying to love and continue to love yourself.

 

I think you're doing just fine, Eyes. I really do.

 

eyes, i apologise if i am hard on you. i know how it felt when i am doing the best of what i know how and get cold water splash all over. and i know it has been tough on you struggling to do the best of you know how. trying to be patient and understanding with her and at the same time watching out for yourself. its tough a know. after all this, i promise you. you will grow. you will become a better person. you will..

[Crazyaboutdogs]

CAD, what do you mean by the statement?

 

shouldnt two people in a relationship be inter-dependent of each other?

 

If you want to find out about co-dependence, check out this site: link removed

 

Co-dependence is not the same as a healthy couple being inter-dependent. Co-dependence has to do with dysfunctional behaviours in one partner that is covered up, excused and danced around by the other partner.

[wtm78]

If you want to find out about co-dependence, check out this site: link removed

 

Co-dependence is not the same as a healthy couple being inter-dependent. Co-dependence has to do with dysfunctional behaviours in one partner that is covered up, excused and danced around by the other partner.

 

interesting article. but i think every one is dysfunctional in one way or another. every family is dysfunctional in one way or another. it just isnt a perfect world.

[EyesOnThePrize]

eyes, i apologise if i am hard on you. i know how it felt when i am doing the best of what i know how and get cold water splash all over. and i know it has been tough on you struggling to do the best of you know how. trying to be patient and understanding with her and at the same time watching out for yourself. its tough a know. after all this, i promise you. you will grow. you will become a better person. you will..

 

wtm - I don't think you're being hard on me. I think you're giving me your opinion, and that's great. I take in everyone's opinion. I'm all about data. I appreciate every viewpoint on this. I just choose which ones make sense to me and which ones don't. I think I'm already a much better person than I was six months ago. I'm not where I want to be yet, and that's fine...I think I move forward every day. And I don't think I have any special gift, I've just chosen a path and have committed to that path. I don't think there's a person here who couldn't do the same. I don't think my viewpoints are right or wrong for anyone else. I think they are just my viewpoints. I don't take offense if someone tells me they don't agree with them, because all that means to me is that my viewpoint doesn't make sense to the other person. That's great...I think we're all very different people and I think its fun to see all the differences. For me, seeing them helps me in relationships with other friends, family and clients. I think its all great.

[wtm78]

i think you have a GREAT attitude...