just M.E. Posted April 24, 2008 Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 On another note, do you know if the court takes into account the last bit of all the joint expenses I had to pay? (IRS, credit cards, etc) In my situation, I was told I wouldn't get much credit for having paid all the expenses for the life of the marriage. My ex also wants to be "paid" (compensated) for any projects done around here although he basically lived for free for the length of the marriage. All the projects I worked along side him and allowed him to do because he was easier to live with when he had something to do. I am told he will probably get no where with that request, we were married, it's normal to do that. I did all his laundry, cooking, etc., I wouldn't expect to be paid for that. What I would guess is that all the extras you did could be used to offset petty claims he comes up with. In my case when he wants to be compensated for chores, we will counter with the fact I lost over $100,000 in 6 years of working in our business for almost zero salary. Our position will be that he is being petty and greedy in light of all I have done for the business he now has and for providing for him. We will say that my hours of work for the business more than compensates, and let's move on. I am told that should be very reasonable From what I am told, the court will want to hear very little of the petty detail, they are more interested in division of marital property and getting it done. I am also told that the court take a very negative attitude to pettiness, wasting of time and vindictiveness. From what you say, your ex is trying to badger and intimidate, I don't think the court will be impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coco3 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 ..... I'm not so worried about the petty things. He's done enough with his actions that I won't even have to say anything to have those shot down. I'm worried more because he spilt with everything in Feb/March. I was returned some of the money he took because he inappropriately accessed it. Since then I had to use most of it to pay the IRS for '07 and credit card bills (90% his charges) Because of that there is hardly anything left, but he is trying to claim a portion of what WAS there. I'm just worried about having to pay him money I don't have because I already used it to pay our financial obligations and responsibilities. The main thing he wants is a huge payout and I can't afford it because the entire amount has pretty much been used to pay these bills and now the lawyers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeStrongBeHappy Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 He can want anything, but it doesn't mean he'll get it. Lots of people try to steamroll and bully during a divorce, but just don't play or let him bully you. Just be sure to save the receipts and evidence of what you paid off to show that you used the money to pay off joint marital debt. Many people during divorces seem to think they are entitled to split half the assets, but not pay half the debt. The judge will educate them otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted April 24, 2008 Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 coco, I agree whole heartedly with bestrong, just have your documentation ready. My ex want 1/2 of a tax refund I got by filing Married Filing Separately after he left, and I am told it is my funds and since he left, kicked me out of my job and thus I had to use those funds to live on and make payments, etc. there is no way he will get that. He is also trying to force me to amend my returns to married filing jointly and take 1/2 of the refunds, but like the accountant told me "This is a free country and no one can be forced to file jointly", this has been confirmed by 4 separate tax attorneys (I like to make sure I am right before I fight). Also he want 1/2 of that joint funds that were applied to the following year as though it was a refund, there would have been taxes and penalties if that money had not been applied as tax payment. And .... he only wants to be in on the return that gets money back, not the state one where I paid. Don't worry, he is bullying and it seems very clear what he is doing, just create clear and easy documentation with a real nice summary so any one can follow the numbers, they will speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostandhurt Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 M.E. I know alot about your story but I have to ask you: what did you see in your ex so long ago and how did he hide his true self to you for so long before he became what he appears to be now? lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 He charmed the pants off of me! LOL .... He was kind and helpful, very funny and we had everything in common. It is still is very sad because so many people still say that. We lived together 2 years before the marriage and there were little tiny red flags that I ignored, a unkind comment out of the blue, his need to be with me 24/7. It didn't start to really show until we had been married about 1 year, then only slowly. I am convinced he has a personality disorder, which one is up for grabs, but my therapists tells me that someone like him can completely change around their personality but at some point they can no longer sustain that change. To be honest, I think deep down he wanted to be that better person, I think he saw me as a way to a more whole and happy life. But he couldn't change the problems within himself, especially since he did not acknowledge them. When things came apart he stated befriending old friends who were "enablers", told him nothing was ever his fault, he wasn't a drunk, didn't have drug problems, etc. I wasn't very confrontational on any of these issues until his behavior started getting very erratic. Then I told him we had to find a solution, I couldn't live like that ... short of the long story. I filed for legal separation in 03/06 and we reconciled in 06/06 with a plan for alcohol treatment (he did 2 months of classes), anger management / counseling (never did, took anti-depressants for 2-3 months, on these he was his old self) I had a lot of hope for those first 3-4 months back, we had fun, built the business back up to a great position cash wise, all in all it was I hoped could happen. Then he quit the anti-depressants, his behavior slowly became erratic again, he started something new, very rude jokes about "take my wife" thing but at that time I didn't deal with the marriage much because my sister-in-law and best friend was dying of leukemia. I was gone a lot, then later toward April '07 his step mother, who I was also extremely close to, lost her battle with leukemia also. He didn't accompany me on any of these funeral trips and I believe in those times I was gone he started an affair. I don't have proof, but he acted out in the way I would expect, guilty and angry. He also quit wanting sex and this from a very selfish man. I knew but with the deaths I wasn't up to dealing with his issues, I was tired and tired of him. It finally came to a head when he generated a very illogical and bizarre argument (I asked him if he had promised someone he was leaving me, I hate it when I am right!) on 5/31/07. Now almost 1 year later I am still trying to get out from his influence on my life. When he left, I never asked him to reconsider, let sleeping dogs lie. My closest guess is that he is a narcissistic personality but that is simply what I get from having lived with him, the ballistic outbursts are relatively new, in the last year ... maybe he is closer to something else brought on by the alcohol. Luckily I only had to experience a few of his worst outbursts. sounds like they have increased in number. When we finally had our discussion about why he left he told me simply "It is all your fault, it will always be all your fault" (alrighty then .... what do you say to a person who say that?) The sad part? I really loved the other person I married, he was a pretty good guy, maybe the booze killed him, I will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostandhurt Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 It's sad to see someone you love turn into a mess. You write about it so well it looks like you are well on your way to being done with that part of your life. I hope mine goes better. We had a discussion about how she was going to pay for her new place and furnishings and for some reason she thought I was going to foot the bill for her freedom palace. The reality of her actions are not quite sinking in all the way yet and when they do I think it might get messy. I hope the court puts it's foot down and stops the rollercoaster you are on soon. lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jraf Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 It's sure a drag isn't it. You say you've have finalized the majority of the assets some time ago. That the only assets left (old car, horse trailer...) you would have given them up just to avoid the drag and cost. You went on to say that you would be glad to pay for 2 of the items. If this is the only stuff that is causing you to drag this out and incur more expenses, it's crazy. The original mediator should have figured this out? Maybe you can get this on the table real fast to cut the process short? Beats me why there is so often one party in a divorce who just uses the opportunty to "mess around" with the other. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 jraf .... Except that he thinks he is entitled to 50% of a hypothetical joint tax return for 2004 - 2006 which I filed Married Filing Separately after he left. I had been overpaid to a large amount but I got a moderate amount in a refund which saved my butt when he left as I was then forced from our business and part of my income. I have no doubts on how I handled this part, I have had 4 tax attorneys and 2 accountants advise me, plus it matches exactly with the IRS guidelines. This has drug on because of this one issue and that he still thinks I should write him a large check (who knows why). The first meeting in Sept of '07 was not an official mediation but an formal attempt with both lawyers and him and I. At that time I would have written a check of about $30K to make all this go away. There is no telling what a judge would do if this goes into court but he could easily walk away with the old car and nothing more. We also had another informal one in Novemeber as a phone conference but it quickly degraded to him screaming at everyone that I promised to buy him a house and I knew what he wanted, he didn't have to tell me. He then hung up on the conference. I found out that or mediation on Monday will be separated, I will be in one room with my lawyer and he will be in another room. That will be much easier on me, I won't have to watch him if he goes ballistic. I won't find out what his demands are until that time. I am sure I will be surprised in some way. lostandhurt .... When you stand outside our situations, many of us have a parallel scenario. In their need to run from the marriage, they fail to realize that they pretty much shot the golden goose and now they have to be responsible for themselves. My ex has made tremendous mistakes in the last year but he can only direct his anger at me, if he where to look at his own behavior, he might actually have to do something about it. Don't get me wrong, I am no sainted wife, maybe I was "long suffering", I am sure I have my own garbage which makes me far less than perfect, but marriages are made up of imperfect people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 The final settlement statement has been presented to the mediator, at least my side. Now I have about 65 hours to try not get obsessive and overly anxious ... maybe hit a movie, maybe go get on my bike tomorrow, go to the gym, groom some horse, stack some hay, keep from thinking ;-) 9:00 am Monday 4/28 MST And thank you everyone for your words of kindness and support, just know it has meant everything to me .... thanks again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mek Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Good luck to you M. E.! I feel like my experience is just following yours... only different in some ways... Angry spouses are just so draining to deal with. -Mek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 We are done. I am still shaking, feel like someone who just stepped out of a car wreck. We started at 9am and I was finishing my signing at 1:30 pm, he was still there getting this copies, we never had to be in the same room. He did a lot of self pity, drama stuff I guess, renting a room in a basement to live (gee, maybe if he hadn't spent $1,500 a month on booze he could have bought a house) I didn't think it was going to happen. It's done. (I already said that, huh?) He cam down $60K from his original offer, I went up $10K, I ended up giving him more than I wanted but no court, which would have cost as much or more than the extra I gave him. I held real close to my original plan. I feel like a bee in a bottle and I rarely drink, but I am giving it serious consideration tonight. The formal paperwork needs to be submitted but essentially I am divorced, it will be official in 2 weeks to 1 month. The weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders. Thank you everyone for being here for me .... Funny little side note, all the way driving home, I kept having that song from the Wizard of Oz, Ding-Dong The Witch Is Dead running through my brain. One of my moments of greatest restraint was NOT buying his mother a plaque that read "Life has never been the same since that house fell on my sister". LOL This is soooooo great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeStrongBeHappy Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Congratulations!! So much in divorce is just noise, heat and BLUSTER!! Perhaps he finally figured out he wasn't going to get what he wanted so best to get what he could. You are FREE!! you will feel so much better soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Thanks BeStrong You are absolutely right, much of it was mind games and though it preyed on me, I didn't play, I didn't respond. I think the mediator did a great job being patient with him, giving him a glimpse of reality and I am sure it was very similar to what his lawyer had told him before he was fired by his lawyer. (He refuses to hear what isn't, in his eyes, beneficial or what he wants) Out of 4.5 hours the mediator spent half hour, maybe 45 min tops, in my room, I knew what I wanted and I also knew I stood a very good chance in court, my position was extremely reasonable. Again, living proof that holding the high ground, not being petty pays off. Any petty item I didn't argue about, but there really wasn't anything, he only really wanted a large amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scornandtorn Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 M.E. I am glad things went somewhat favorable for you today. I'm sure it's a big relief to at least know where you stand financially. I hope this is the end of the battle and he doesn't pursue any loopholes as my ex has repeatedly done. Congratulations on taking the high road and being the better person. Peace is just around the corner for us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Thanks scorn, It's slowly sinking in. I am told that for him to re-neg on a court ordered mediation that he agreed to the settlement would not be something anyone would want to do. He also agreed to allow the mediator full right to arbitration if there was a dispute. Plus I can't see him spending any of that settlement money on more legal fees, he's gonna want to spend it on himself . I'm sorry your ex has jacked around with the system and loopholes, they should really be slapped down in court for that behavior and this process would be more simple and fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusedmama Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I am sooo glad that this worked out the way it did. I'm even more glad for you now that its over. YEAH!!! New Chapter in your book of life. Of course you had to compromise-you did that your entire marriage-but now even that part of it is over. CONGRATS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 Well ... it is June 7th and we are no farther along than we were when we walked out of the mediation room and had a signed hand copy of our agreement. I've been hiding out as the anxiety wants to overwhelm. I want a quick short phrasology that transfers my 50% ownership our business to him, as it stands what the mediator wrote only allows him to retain his 50%. The ex will not sign the version that transfers the business to him. I have not conprehension of why. Just know it is a month and a hlaf later and nothing. Kinda like the Everready Bunny, just keeps going and going and going ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishmash Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Well ... it is June 7th and we are no farther along than we were when we walked out of the mediation room and had a signed hand copy of our agreement. I'm so sorry to hear this, I was hoping your divorce would be finalized by now so you could move on. Seems like some people are happiest when they make others miserable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 I am starting to really believe the only possible explaination must be that he maintain the drama. What I want to do is to his advantage financially and I want the clean break. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishmash Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 I am starting to really believe the only possible explaination must be that he maintain the drama. The divorce agreement is to his advantage and he still won't go along? Sounds like he's very immature has some power and control issues to go along with the drama. I'm now wondering if our stbx's always had these undesirable traits, or if they developed slowly during the course of the relationship. How does that one persons sig go? You truly don't know a person until you divorce them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 I think my ex had this, only blamed others, it was always the other person who caused the problem. He even said it himself, to a friend who was having a bad time, ironic how he never heard his own words. "When it is always someone else, it is usually you" The Settlement agreement allows him to keep his 50%, I want it corrected to state I am transferring my 50% to him as well as him keeping his 50%. There are two earlier documents that vaguely state that he gets my 1/2 and keeps his 1/2 and I want the final to agree with the earlier two and to worded clearly so there will not be confusion. He won't sign because of that change. I also now believe that there are people who are chameleons, who do not show their true selves until they have discarded you, then and only then do you see what was in their heart. In the case of my ex, not much, I think it's empty. I only want it to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishmash Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 I also now believe that there are people who are chameleons, who do not show their true selves until they have discarded you, then and only then do you see what was in their heart. In the case of my ex, not much, I think it's empty. I only want it to go away. Just M.E., your comment about chameleons got me thinking, as that is the perfect description of my stbx. Here's what someone else wrote about these type of people: Chameleon people want, more than anything else, to be loved. Not for who they are, no. They just want to be loved, and they’re willing to pretend to be anybody, to the extent it serves that purpose. Ideally, in fact, the person who loves them should know nothing at all about the real “them.” The above really hit home with me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bendix Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Mishmash and ME, I think that you two have a point on the chameleon anaology. "Chameleon people want, more than anything else, to be loved. Not for who they are, no. They just want to be loved, and they’re willing to pretend to be anybody, to the extent it serves that purpose. Ideally, in fact, the person who loves them should know nothing at all about the real “them.” ME, I know that you can see this in my X from all of our discussions. This is maybe where they see the entitlement apparition. As if by their willingness to go to this great lengths (being who ever they need to be), they "deserve" to get back what they expect. And if lying, twisting and avoiding the truth are necessary to suit that purpose, one of their chameleon personalities can perform that task without any guilt or remorse. Like I have stated before, my X has claimed recently that she does not remember some of her behavior. I have postulated that this a low level of split personality dysfunction. Not enough to be noticed by most or even anyone. It is at a low level and may never get worse or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just M.E. Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 He signed the settlement agreement this morning, and it is being filed with the court this afternoon .... YEEEEHAAAAA I spent so much time preparing myself for the next round of drama and battles, I am numb, it's as if I wouldn't allow myself to celebrate. Details later!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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