i never should have come to this site

[sourpeach]

all it has done is make me feel worse about myself and about life in general. it is downright depressing reading all of this stuff on here. i am also really completely disgusted with what's going on in the topless beaches thread. everyone but 1 other poster just reaffirm my disgust and hatred of men, and also reinforce just how hopeless everything is.

 

women are not objects, women are not art, women are not ornaments. women are people and they have feelings, unlike men who only seem to have sexual urges, physical reaction to a visual stimulus. why can't you men control yourselves? that really is THE one and only important major difference, and answer to the age old question of why are men and women so different.. men have penises. and apparently, it is like being crippled.

 

deal with my self esteem issues.. bla bla bla. why? so i can live in ignorance, like so many other women do? no thank you. he likes looking at other women, but he comes home to his girlfriend/wife? not good enough. too much time of the day his mind is elsewhere, not thinking about or caring about you, and no amount of denial or convincing yourself that "its just looking" is going to change that. the point is.. for men, one is never enough.. nothing is ever enough. they want more more more, different different different. and they dont deserve it. and women allow it, even perpetuate it. if a man could trade his woman in for someone that looks better and gives him everything he loves about his current SO, he would.

 

i am so incredibly angry and disgusted. i want to just jump off the roof, just so i dont have to deal with another second of this nonsense that is literally everywhere. why are men so damn primitive? evolve already. you have a brain, use it. stop living your lives just following your penis wherever it drags you.

 

and dont, dont anyone tell me men are objectified as much as women, they are not. i remember just this past halloween the media finally caught on to the several year old trend of sexy halloween costumes for women and LITTLE GIRLS. halloween used to be about things that were scary, ghosts and vampires and whatnot. we no longer see the female vampire.. just the vamp. clevage and leg and fishnet stockings and high heels. the super bolw.. last time there was just as much attention paid to the scantily clad, * * * * ty dancing cheerleaders as there was to the actual game and score. its really gotten way out of hand. tv commercials.. they use fake boobs to sell literally everything. beer, electronics, cell phone carriers... in canada they used boobs to advertise a RADIO STATION, because yea, boobs have just SO much to do with music on the radio. does this really sell products? no. studies ive read say it doesnt make a product any more popular. all it does is further de-sensitize men. it is mind numbing. i want to scream. i want to hit people. and i am not the only one out there who feels this way. millions of girls and women do, thats why they suffer eating disorders and depression and a lot of other things. i'm just really in tune with what it is i feel and what it is that makes me so angry. this crap literally takes up so much of my free time. i am constantly reading articles from my schools database about gender issues and sexualization and media and men and all of this crap. everything just reaffirms how * * * * ty things are and how pathetic and selfish and evil men are. i hate men. i really really do. how i wish i could just become a lesbian.. but other women's vaginas skeeve me out to no end, so that is not an option.

 

i feel lost and hopeless and the only advice anyone has to give me is to work on my self esteem. like i said, changing what i think is not going to change the reality of the world i live in where the ideal woman for a man is an infinite number of women. that is never going to rest well with me. never. and what a lot of you dont seem to realize, i am a product of my culture. i was raised, not by my parents, but by my society and my culture to think all women, including myself are just eye candy for men and tools for the sexual releif of men. i think it i so so wrong and i hate it but still at the end of the day it is so embedded in me and everywhere i look it is all i see. nothing changes and its all the same, i cannot escape it. it is driving me completely insane. i gained a lot of weight and now no one wants to look at me so i dont even bother trying to get back into shape.. how did i get here? i used to be gorgeous, hot as hell, but constantly being looked at, talked to, treated like a walking piece of meat did this to me. seeing it happen to all other women all my life did this to me. and all of you who think this is all just in my head... you're wrong, you're ignorant, and you are living in the fantasy world. not me. i see the reality for the f*cked up thing it is and i refuse to sit by and let it be and just accept it and deal with it. no. absolutely not. no.

[Censored]

SP,

 

That's a little rash and general of men isn't it?

 

I know your views are not entirely correct.

 

Doesn't mean you don't think they are, or believe they are, afterall perception can be stronger than fact.

 

I am sorry this is your view.

[free2Bme]

It's a shame you have to attack others with your views. Your opinion is welcome, but not when it comes to insulting people's loved ones and belittling other peoples morals and values, just because they are not the same as your own.

[sourpeach]

It's a shame you have to attack others with your views. Your opinion is welcome, but not when it comes to insulting people's loved ones and belittling other peoples morals and values, just because they are not the same as your own.

 

youre just another one of the women i mentioned in this post, the ones who just allow this nonsense from men and help perpetuate it. all you are out to do is make some man happy at a cost to yourself. it is women like you who make life harder for us all.

 

and i didnt mean in this thread to specifically attack you, i am just repulsed by the general consesnus revolving around your situation, which is just anecdotal to the situation at large and reflective of how screwed up things are.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

You have some very good points about the oversexualization of society but I will disagree about the fact that it is only men who are responsible. Women are just as guilty...many of them WANT to dress up as tarts and get male attention...many of them WANT to sleep with men they barely know and then say "well we did everything else but vaginal penetration because, after all, I have standards!" (who are they kidding!), plenty of women look at a man funny if he doesn't want to have sex with her by the 4th date. So you can't only blame men...women have bought into this mentality hook line and sinker and if a more conservative and modest woman dares speak her mind, she gets lambasted...often more so by other women (I see that enough just on this board). So, on the one hand women get upset when their partners look at other women's in your face boobs...and yet they themselves have caved in to the oversexualization of society and are probably turning the heads of other women's boyfriends/husbands much to the other woman's chagrin.

 

With regards to your own insecurities and issues...you have control over that...nobody made you this way...you chose to react in this manner. Change your mindset and be your own person...forget about peer pressure. The minute you can be your own person, you will feel a lot better about yourself.

[sourpeach]

SP,

 

That's a little rash and general of men isn't it?

 

I know your views are not entirely correct.

 

Doesn't mean you don't think they are, or believe they are, afterall perception can be stronger than fact.

 

I am sorry this is your view.

 

i found my bf, who all of you think is the scum of the earth. he is not like the guys i mentioned. not being like that is the most important thing to me, so i dont really care anymore if he is jealous and posessive, at least he is obsessing over me, and not every skirt that passes his way.

[sourpeach]

that's just it. this is MY reaction, being my own person. change my mindset to be my own person? all of you are telling me "buy into what we think" which is the exact opposite of what i think. and yes, women have bought into it, but who put it there to begin with? men. the entire history of our modern society it has been men from the get-go who have controlled everything and created everything. in the 50s they hired psychologists to write the stories and articles in the womens mags to promote the message and ideology that MEN wanted women to buy into. just one small example of how men create the product and cleverly market it to unsuspecting women. it's been going on for so long that it has become invisible and unstoppable. women are raised in this setting, how could they not buy into it? but who benefits from all of this? the men, not the women.

[Atticus90]

All guys aren't like that. Just because you may have had one bad experience with a guy, doesn't make the other billions of guys in the earth just like him.

 

You really need to re-think what you're saying, 'cause you're wrong.

[Mavh25]

I understand some of your viewpoints, and you are most definitely entitled to your opinion and I'm sure your thoughts and views are justified in your mind. But you don't need to tear people down just because they don't see the same as you, as someone else said. Do you act sexy and dress nice for your boyfriend? do you read magazines? do you buy fashionable clothes in the shops? just curious.

 

You're turning this almost into some sort of conspiracy theory.

[agent1607307371]

You give your answer at the end of your post. It is SOCIETY that is the problem (and the way it is represented and sold in the papers and movies and tv) NOT the people who make it up.

 

You talk a lot about women being people, but you don't seem able to view men in the same light.

 

I suggest that the problem lies in your perceptions. It's quite a good trick but the brain is an amazing pattern matcher - when you think something it will always find something to back that up. When I used to think that the world was horrible and I was crap, I could find endless reasons and truth in that in the world around me. When I started thinking that the world was actually quite ace and so am I, I manage to find things that match that also.

 

"We see things not as they are, but as we are..."

[kuiks8]

Hey SP

I read your post and I get the frustration of feeling inadequate in the view of all these "perfect" women, Its hard to feel beautiful or worthwhile in a world that does seem to emphasize size, weight and perfection over depth, thought and soul.

The thing you have to remember is you are not the world...you don't have to buy in to those thoughts, you can be whoever you want and you can focus on anything you want. You can find people, men and woman who think like you and agree with the way you feel.

As a whole our society is often sexualized, but there are many people who are sick of it, there are many people who don't buy in to it. There are men and women who seek beauty from people on the inside and not just wholly from who they are on the outside.

There are men and women alike who are able to respect each other.

You paint a bleak picture but it will continue to be bleak if that is the only way you see it...only you can change what you ascribe to...you can't control or change the world and nothing good can come from focusing on the wrongs of it...Find the beauty and the good, it won't be everywhere and it won't be in everyone but it does exist...

[Alex Kidd]

Man, you sound upset - lol! Blimey!

[Day After Today]

Hey Sourpeach you’re entitled to your opinion, but personally I disagree. I don’t think your anger and frustration gives you the right to generalise all men into one simple category. Near to where I live there a number of ethnic minorities some of which abuse benefits provided by the government, commit fraud and indulge in a life of crime, however that wouldn’t entitle me to become a racist and generalise all ethnic minorities as leaches and criminals because that simply wouldn’t be true. I respect and admire every individual for having their own thoughts and opinions. I blame society and the media for promoting body perfect stereotypes and using sex as an advertising tool and that frustrates and angers me too!

 

What I look for in a woman is character, depth in personality, and someone who cares and respects me.

 

Although I don’t agree, thanks for sharing your opinion anyway.

[Batya33]

Sorry you are so upset. Almost every man I've been seriously involved with has treated me with respect and like a lady. I wouldn't tolerate objectification and I never needed to.

 

I went on dates with and was approached by certain men who did not treat me with respect and the decision to "next!" them was easy. But it never made me generalize as you do, not in over 20 years of dating many many men. I never slept around, never felt the need to, never felt "pressured" to. Was I ever pressured? Sure, I am sure every person has felt pressured at some point. But I stuck to my standards and simply said "next!" But I would never generalize from those few experiences as I hope men don't generalize from the women who pressured them to do things in their lives or who did not treat them with respect.

 

And - no complaints about my career as far as being a woman in an area that at times is male dominated. When I've had work related issues (thank goodness not too many they haven't typically been gender-related (or race/religion related) - just interpersonal issues, or political, etc.)

 

It's mostly a cop out I think to generalize and blame it on "society." It's fine to vent but to me it's more productive to live your life seeing people as individuals and trying to make changes - small or large - if you see injustice.

 

Of course there is sexism, discrimination, objectification, etc. Just like there is racism, needless poverty, too much violence. Pick your poison. But when you pick, why not, when you're done venting, do something about it. The small changes that happen when you do - including in yourself - it's better for your blood pressure that's for sure - and they-make a difference.

 

It sounds like you made some choices to stay involved with people who didn't treat you with respect. But that's not society -it's your choice in part - and you can make a different choice.

 

Just my opinion.

[greensleeves]

You are certainly generalizing when you say all men are pathetic, selfish and evil. and it's very sad that you would dismiss half of the world's population like that.

 

You make some good points about the media, but you need to remember that it is no longer the 1950's when men controlled what people saw in magazines, on television and in the movies. It's 2008 and there are just as many women as there are men working in advertising and marketing, so you can't blame an entire gender for what you see in the media today. If it bothers you, do something about it. Refuse to purchase the products of companies who's advertising techniques you don't agree with, write to them and let them know why you're not going to be buying their products. It may be a small thing, but if enough women (and men) started refusing to buy into it, change will happen. We are all products of our culture and we all have the ability to create change...history has proven that.

 

I've read through some of your previous threads, and I really sympathize with you, because clearly you do need to work on your self esteem, whether or not you agree with that. You pontificate about how evil men are, yet you allow yourself to be verbally abused and controlled by someone you've never even met in real life. You yourself are buying into a media driven society by living in a fantasy world created by the gaming industry.

[tangi39]

I can definitely understand how you feel. A think there is a lot of pressure out there today for a woman to be perfect -and Yes, I do agree we are expected to live up to nearly impossible standards these days.

 

Has anyone ever recommended you to read The Beauty of Myth by Naomi Wolf ?

It is easy to get frustrated with things in the media, especially as a woman I know I get tired of seeing giant fake boobs everywhere.

But as much as it may irritate us, getting upset about it, blaming all men, and trashing the media won't change it. So, what do you do ?

Be Proactive- Just B&M 'ing won't change a thing.

 

Try to do positive things to perpetuate a good image of women.

Use all this frustrated energy and turn in into something since you are clearly very passionate about it.

Since you mentioned the young girl Halloween costumes thing- Start there.

Maybe you could start an organization to educate young girls- To help them find self esteem and use their brains as their real assets.

Can you sew ? Do you like fashion ? Maybe you could create a new line of Halloween costumes for girls so they look like little girls instead of teeny ladies of the night. And the list of possibilities are endless.

 

It is easy I know to look at men and place blame there- but also understand that they can't control the media anymore than we do- It may seem like it, but that's not the truth. There are lots of good guys out there who don't buy into all the media stuff. And we both know, there are lots of women out there who are just as shallow and perpetuate the stereotype- but these are shallow people- Defined by their actions and not their gender.

I think you need to remember to make that distinction.

 

First, take a deep breath. And turn all that passion, energy, fire and enthusiam into something positive- Then you will make a real difference !

 

Good Luck !

[annie24]

yes, i totally agree. i read your previous threads about all the awful things your bf says to you.... and you've never even met in person! why even tolerate it? the second an online stranger says something awful to me, i am out of there. i think what we as women can do to combat disrespect is to walk away right away when it comes up. i don't think it's all mens' fault for oversexualization and crappy behavior. if women didn't tolerate it, it wouldn't happen.

 

i think you are really angry at your bf and you're taking it out on all men. there are a ton of really great men out there, who see women as humans, not as objects. ditch your guy, and take the time to meet the really great guys out there. i assure you they exist.

[Dako]

I sometimes get weary of women who bash all men as careless idiots, but realize they're in the minority. I certainly don't paint all women with a broad brush.

 

Bashing this entire forum is a strange way of ignoring it.

 

Long, long ago, I got hurt by a woman and saw all women as selfish heartless slime for a long time. I was rude to women and acted like a complete jerk. When I see someone going through that sort of phase I just shake my head.

[shes2smart]

Bashing this entire forum is a strange way of ignoring it.

 

Well, my .02 on that is this: If there's truly nothing here for them, people go about their business and wander away quietly.

 

However, if we find things that challenge us or we find some (difficult) truths presented to us, we tend to get very argumentative and angry. After all, who likes to be challenged? And who really relishes being exposed to a painful truth that might require us to change some long-held but harmful beliefs?

 

I've gone through a bitter, man-hatin' phase or two in my time. I was oh-so-certain that the problems of the world and the problems of my existence were due to THOSE things a Y chromosome.

 

Turns out, the problems of my existence had more to do with my own thoughts, beliefs, and level of self-acceptance and self-love than anything outside my head.

[Jeen]

Men are not the guilty party it is the media and the media is run by men and women. It is easy to cry wolf.

 

link removed

[adommin]

Wake up and smell the hummus...seriously. You mention that you feel like jumping off a roof in your post - I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if you hopped off your absurdly high horse it might do the trick...crikey.

[15 Storeys High]

You're bitter about your own shortcomings, jealous of other women, angry because you've let yourself go and you're blaming all of YOUR issues on an entire gender, which is utterly rediculous. You're rude and I find some of your words totally offensive. In fact, you sound like some men out there. How ironic that you should mirror what you seem to hate so much. Your poor boyfriend.

[RelaxByWater84]

Men are wired differently, and can't help it, than women and it's a good thing. To get inside a man's head and see things from his point of view I would recommend that you read For Women Only by Shaunti Feldhahn. It has really made me aware of how guys think.

[metrogirl]

youre just another one of the women i mentioned in this post, the ones who just allow this nonsense from men and help perpetuate it. all you are out to do is make some man happy at a cost to yourself. it is women like you who make life harder for us all.

 

and i didnt mean in this thread to specifically attack you, i am just repulsed by the general consesnus revolving around your situation, which is just anecdotal to the situation at large and reflective of how screwed up things are.

 

No....Sourpeach, you have it wrong. You took/take non-sense from your cyber boyfriend that obviously has no respect for you, treats you miserably, has caused you a lot of emotional distress and you continue to advocate it and say it is ok because you grovel back to him asking for his forgivness. Do you think you need to be forgiven by a man that is a total pig? And do you know why he does this, BECAUSE YOU LET HIM, BECAUSE YOU ARE TELLING HIM THAT IT IS ABSOLUTLEY OK TO TREAT YOU LIKE GARBAGE BECAUSE YOU CONSTANTLY SEEK HIS APPROVAL AND FORGIVENESS.

[thejigsup]

While I do agree that men are more visually oriented than women, I see no need to bash the whole gender. I certainly am no Barbie Doll, yet I have no problem with men whatsoever. I detest men that treat women badly, then have the nerve to come on ENA and cry, "Why did she leave me? She's so heartless!" Yes, that sort of man does get on my nerves, but they are the minority, really. I had my bf spend hours last night fixing his computer that had crashed just so I could email my resume to a company that was asking for it (I keep my resume on his machine). He is also doing my taxes for free. This same generous man will readily admit that he sometimes looks at porn online, loves women's anatomy, and is a very visual person. What is funny is that he never stops complimenting me about my body, and I'm in my fifties! So...men have their faults, but hey, the good outweighs the bad in most cases. And anyway, who ever said us women were perfect? My bf can never understand my needing to buy new shoes to go with every new outfit, but he accepts it as a part of me and he loves me. So my advice is to enjoy the good and deal with the bad, like most adults do. By the way, I am not eye candy or a sex toy. I am an educated, professional woman and, believe it or not, many men find that attractive.