Nonchalance is Your Friend

[just not sure]

man i'm really in a tough spot now.

 

so you all know what happened yesterday with the post about my dog. she calls me and texts me everyday. i'm like 95% her and the new guy spent the night together and she called me right after they parted. she cried yesterday because she got jealous. we talk ALOT. she's coming over sunday and we're gonna spend another day together. i think we're basically dating on the slick. she even said tonight "you should feel bad because he has no idea" but obviously i don't feel bad at all. but the problem is i am just afraid i am setting myself up.

 

we talk about ourselves and how we feel and just communicate well like we never really did before. the problem is that she said tonight she just feels like i am a big risk and she is afraid that if she dumps him and then i fall back into my old habits (which i really don't feel would happen) that she'd have made two big mistakes.

 

but obviously she's not toooooo concerned about this guy because she's talking to me everyday and texting and wanting to go places with me and she said i was mean to her the other night because i just gave her some money for a bill and left and didn't take a ride with her or talk to her. at the same time she was supposed to cook dinner for him and his brother and sister tonight but had to work late. he supposedly wants to take her on vacation with his family in october. i told her that i feel like if i do what i have to and we'll be fine, and she didn't disagree. i feel like it's my job to EARN her back and that's what i want to do. i just don't want to set myself up. what do you guys suggest?

[Halflife]

My ex, who ended on very good terms, told me that when she changed her status to single, loads of guys commented on it which she thought was pathetic. Thing is, I got someone to look at her Facebook and there is not a single comment about the relationship!

 

Is this a good sign? Sounds to me like she wants to make me jealous and considering we are on good terms, only motive I can think of is she wants me to chase her?

[Strife]

So it appears my ex is beginning to crack. Just yesterday, in a discussion with my housemate, and close friend, she revealed that my so called 'erratic' behavior towards her was confusing her. The fact that she's even expressed it to our housemate, means that it is severely bugging her She says that she doesn't want a relationship at the moment, but isn't sure what my game plan is, as to if I'm acting like this to get her back or if im just being 'nice'.

 

Of late, I've been working a lot (as has she), whilst also texting/talking a lot, very upbeat, very laid back, not even slightly bringing her 'down' with relationship talk, and yet at the same time, not being friendly or close enough to be the 'sorta' boyfriend I initially was - as in sometimes being a bit colder with her (yet still being friendly), not being as available to her as I was etc. I've taken Crap's advice - why bother getting upset or caught up on things you can't immediately change? I'm not doing this anymore to necessarily win her back, I'm not sure at this point that a relationship with her is what I want. But still, its nice to know that shes noticed that things are different, even if its not enough to make her contemplate reconciling, which as I said before, I'm not sure I'd accept anyway.

 

For the first time, with her, I'm the one in control. The last thing she expected was me to act like this...she was expecting an emotional display of me begging for her back, and it hasn't and won't happen. She'll have to come back to me. And I'll think about it. Or at the very least make her chase me a little bit.

 

She seems to have at least put her guard down at least a little - in the past days that I've switched my thinking and my reasoning for my actions, it's like she became more defensive as a means of defending herself against this 'new' me, and to be honest, I think she likes it - last night she stopped 'restricting' herself from me, and actually made physical contact (and kept making contact). So to be honest, for any doubters to nonchalance and its so called 'powers' I am but one example, among many in this thread who can testify its powers! Its not easy, its like reprogramming your mind, there are good and bad days, but the good days...boy are they good!

[CrapAtNC]

Nice one, Strife. It's all about getting the relationship back in balance. I'm so happy to see you're in a good place, which is the main goal of all this.

 

So, I've pulled right back with my ex. She went off with the new guy for a few days, and, although this time she actually stayed in touch, including just before leaving, several times while away, and immediately on her return, I decided that this would be a good point at which to leave her to experience the consequences of her decision. I'm not being mean; I'm just not enabling any more.

 

So, no more contact from me, except for the occasional response to texts and answering some of her calls. I also wrote on my Facebook that finally the magic has gone, and since then she has been texting and calling continuously to ask how I am. Of course, I respond in a very upbeat fashion, and I think she's getting worried. I think she knows she's losing me.

 

I didn't answer her last two texts but did take her last call. I spoke happily and told her how busy I am with good animal stuff (I rescue animals), work, and friends coming to visit. She told me she's been looking through the last batch of our photos and listening to the music I gave her. I ignored it and talked about other stuff. She asked to come over at some point and I said sure but that I'm busy. And then I told her I had to get back to work but that I would see her at her work over the weekend. The difference in my attitude was stark, as I am no longer interested in being part of the love triangle she has created. And I'm happy.

 

I just noticed that she immediately changed her Facebook profile pic to one that I took of her (the previous one was by her bf), and had posted a whole album of photos that I took of her at her apartment, drinking with me at my place, and dancing on my balcony. I was at first impressed that she would be so bold, as she explained recently that she never puts photos of lovers on her Facebook, so it was a big first. But I also felt bad that her bf would clearly not like it, having already expressed concern about me, the man she has already admitted having strong feelings for. I actually feel like I'm now on the side of her bf, and really not happy that she once again did something that would hurt someone she should care about.

 

And so I realise that she really isn't the one for me. She says she will have counseling, as she acknowledges she has an unhealthy attitude to relationships, but I'll believe that when I see it. It's extremely hard, because she really is a catch and I felt very close to her, but I'm moving on. And that, together with my constantly nonchalant demeanour, is of course bringing her back. That's how it works. That's life.

 

The experiment continues. I am in a very good place, and she is going through a necessary period of pain and confusion as she realises the consequences of playing guys off one another. She NEEDS to go through this, as I truly believe it's a lesson she needs to learn, for her own sake. Regardless, my focus is on continuing with my financial and emotional progress, and enjoying some lovely dates with some equally lovely women.

 

I'm now looking forward to a packed weekend of fun and socializing, as I hope you all are. I won't be very available until Tuesday, but by all means PM me if you need an urgent opinion.

 

Cheers, all!

 

 

Crap

[Live-N-Learn]

I am really happy for you crap. Are you seriously over her to such a point that if she wanted to come back your decision is final? How have you separated your emotional attachment to her and your logic that she is not right for you? Although I know my ex is not good for me, I still have not been able to get to that point. I wonder if I should post something like you said on my wall lol

[jenna-is-here]

It's extremely hard, because she really is a catch and I felt very close to her, but I'm moving on. And that, together with my constantly nonchalant demeanour, is of course bringing her back. That's how it works. That's life.

 

 

Crap - Even when we know they are not right for us, it is equally hard. I think that is the hardest part, seeing them for who they are instead of who we think they are or who we want them to be. I dont like her love triangle one bit and am proud you have the determination to distance yourself from that. Crap deserves only the BEST!!

[CrapAtNC]

Ha-ha! We ALL deserve only the best.

 

She has called again AND sent a short email to tell me how great I am and how she is happy now because she met me. I'm not mentioning why I'm leaving her be, not saying anything about her bf, nothing . . . that's how it is when you're truly nonchalant; none of that concerns you.

 

Night night!

[paulod]

ha ha brilliant Crap!!

well sent the ex this text ( I have no idea if she has the same number) had to hurry as getting ready to go out on a date

 

Hi H,

Hope all went well with you at the doctors the other day.

I've been, nothing wrong apart from me being knackered,running around, training and not eating properly.

Looks like I'd best get back on those Kababs and Chinese takeaways, Im missing my sumo baby belly and treble chin (not)

Got may tatt finished, it looks fantastic!! should have taken your advice and got it done sooner. I'll show you next week if you're around. Later 'gator. Paulo.

 

How does that sound?? not clingy at all i think and if she wants to get back to me then go for it... if not.. oh well never mind!

 

P

[Live-N-Learn]

Update

 

We are going to the concert tonight and the plan was she is going to meet me there cuz she works til 7:30. Well her best friend Tina just text me and asked if I was still going tonight. She knows I am going! Anyways, I say yes and she sends a text back saying Yay! me too!. I play it cool and say great...Jesse and Jen are coming as well. Sounds like it will be a party! Do you want to get something to eat before the concert? She text back. Sure but I am meeting Tiara at 7:30 not going to drink and drive. (she got a DUI a few weeks ago).

 

What bothers me is that I paid for Tiara's ticket and this is kind of a date. I thought it was going to be the 4 of us and now Tina is coming along. As you know last weekend she said we were going on a date and then said she was going to drive Jesse and to meet her at the club. I would not be surprised if her and Tiara talked and put this all together. She is making it clear she is OK with me paying for her but not being in situations that could be perceived as a date. She is the one that asked me to take her to the concert.

 

I feel disrespected and have had enough of this crap! I told Tina I would eat with her before her going to meet up with Tiara, but I will not talk about Tiara or act like it bothers me. I usually buy Tiara's drinks as well but think tonight I need to let her buy her own. This is not cool. In addition I am sure the group will want to go dancing after the concert. I think I should excuse myself and go home.

 

Any thoughts as to how I should handle this tonight?

 

My nonchalance will be tested. After tonight I am pulling way back.

 

Forgot to mention Tiara did tell me her friend Roger who we both know was coming to the concert. Not sure if he has a date or not. Either way, it does not change the fact that she is driving Tina protecting herself from coming with me afterwords. IMO How convenient.

 

Update while writing this

 

I posted on my FB wall today...Ever have an "Ah-ha!" moment? Just had one...They are awesome! Tiara just commented..You have way too many of these. I have no idea what this means are really am starting to care less and less.

[BeDour]

I'm in a bit of a pickle here. Her an I are talking and being a little flirty again. She also posted on her fb wall that she wants to go dancing sometime soon. So I kind of want to ask her to go but I don't want to do it in a needy way. Any ideas?

[jellysandwich]

Figured I should update on my situation. As it turns out, I am on vacation now and have been updating my facebook more lately, and my ex noticed. She messaged me on yahoo and facebook yesterday:

 

(10:34:58 AM) Her: call me and tell me whats happening now?

(10:35:20 AM) Her: i am interested in hearing about your crazy life

(facebook) Her: Call me!

 

(30 hours later) Me: You ... do realize that you can call me too? lol silly girl

 

I guess I should've also mentioned an important fact from a few weeks ago, from a phone conversation:

 

Me: Are you seeing anyone?

Her: (hesitating) Kind of .... I like someone, but we're not officially dating

 

So yea... Not sure what I want to do.

 

BUT assuming I do want to pursue it, what's the best course of action? The fact that she's dating someone doesn't bother me, so I'm not worried how I will act. Just not sure what to do logistically.

[Live-N-Learn]

Keep doing what your doing. It is getting to her. Don't ask again about the other guy for sure. Make her continue to chase you.

[bungalo]

bungalo, I know you've been hungry for, and done a lot of reading on relationships and psychology. Realistically, would you agree that all this talk of... indifference (or InDif, as the kewl kids call it ), as it's being applied here, is in the context of attraction as opposed to a foundational element of a committed relationship? Being that you've already gone three rounds with her, wouldn't it seem that getting her to come back around isn't really the problem? Or are you thinking that somehow adopting this attitude (without actually being honest with yourself and truly feeling it) will somehow resolve the issues that perpetuate this cycle?

 

On a more generic note, my opinion is that this particular topic has become subverted into a dysfunctional context. As I said before, there's a validity to the concept of the cause-and-effect of certain human behaviors. However, scheming what to do and/or say with the intention of soliciting a particular reaction is nothing more than games and manipulation. Some of the conjured up suggestions I've read in this and the other thread come off as rude, immature and transparent. The fact is, there's nothing "nonchalant" about plotting ways to be "nonchalant". How many here who are trying to 'use' this "technique" truly feel what they're trying to convey? Just food for thought.

 

 

 

 

The thing is....I kind of agree with BOTH of you. Maybe it's because I'm Aquarius....I can see all sides...but TT..I have to say..you are right on about non-cha not necessarily changing the foundational problems with the rel/ship...HOWEVER..I also believe as CRAP says...in a sense...I really DO believe that the unexpected non-cha, funny interactions could cause a sea-change in the dynamics that were pulling things down. I was needy and seeking validation from this woman...who is exceeding non-cha herself ...Ultimately, what I believe is..acting non-cha helps the dumpee regain some dignity. If the ex sees the dumpee as calm and cool..it's a win for the dumpee. Feeling follows action. Just by acting the part long enough it will eventually become second-nature. I know that being non-cha is actually part of me..I've done it in the past...I did it last night on a first date with a girl..I just haven't done it with my ex..but I will, very soon. And with regard to manipulation. We all try to manipulate, and I know the word has a bad name..but think about it. Manipulating is really trying to achieve a certain outcome. If you want to really put manipulation under the microscope...then you would have to accept the notion that everytime you TRY TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING WITH CHARM, OR YOU WITS THEN YOU ARE MANIPULATING. There's nothing wrong with that. Where manipulating because problematic is when you are presenting a false image of yourself, or out and out lying to leverage an outcome.

[PaleSeptember]

Would it be too terribly manipulating to somehow nonchalantly let my ex know there's a guy asking me out to dinner? And it would be the truth! I'm terrible.

[Live-N-Learn]

Would it be too terribly manipulating to somehow nonchalantly let my ex know there's a guy asking me out to dinner? I'm terrible.

 

Pale, I know how bad you want to tell him but I am pretty sure no matter how you say it unless he asks, it will sound like you are trying to make him jealous. If he asks you to do something. say your busy. Then when he asks what do you mean busy? Then tell him.

[mr_zanon]

I won't be very available until Tuesday

C'mon, man...no need to go LC on us.

[Sim54]

Hi there.

I too, at some point made the switch from a people pleaser to nonchalant.

After 15 months with possibly the love of my life, I lost her, because I never actually went further and made an emotional commitment to her.

 

BEWARE OF DAVID DEANGELO!

 

What he proposes is simply the opposite side to a coin. Wuss on one side, cool and cocky and nonchalant on the other.

 

You haven't healed your co-dependancy, you have simply switched sides.

 

You boast above how now your girl is the one who seeks YOUR approval.

By doing that, you are precipitating her negative reactions to you, and although that feels like she is attracted to you, in fact you are simply attaching her to you through her own neurotic behaviour.

 

A friend of mine has just lost his girl after 3 years.

She has left him.

Why?

Because he was nonchalant.

And now he is kicking himself for not learning how to be a REAL man.

 

A real man doesn't play silly manipulative games to attract a woman.

He is simply true to his core and he attracts.

 

David DeAngelos books are good for picking up insecure girls who are weak and needy and are searching for a strong and unfeeling guy to take care of them, but ultimately you are simply co-creating an unhealthy relationship with out real connection and real intimacy.

 

The only way to cure co-dependancy is not to try to change your behaviour, but to heal the underlying emotional issues you have of low self esteem and self rejection.

Find a good therapist and do that the work.

There are no short cuts, and manipulative PUA tactics will ultimately leave you heartbroken and alone and confused.

 

Stop trying to control the women in your life and actually GROW up as a man so you finally have something to OFFER a woman, rather than selfishly using her to boost your flagging ego and self esteem issues.

 

S

[CrapAtNC]

Deangelo would agree with you up to a point, as he says himself in his books that he is doing no more than showing how to attract; to maintain a healthy relationship requires more, and he suggests reading other books for that.

 

Nonchalance is something I picked up from my research on overcoming codependency, as a way to combat many of the negative character traits that cause relationship breakdowns, from neediness to insecurity to over-concern, etc. It is most certainly a tool for bringing greater balance and a healthier attitude (from both sides) to a relationship. For sure, some codependents end up going from one extreme to the other, and it is important to ensure that our new attitude leaves room for caring behaviour also. We must care, but not too much, and not any more than we care about ourselves.

 

Most relationship books will advise ensuring just the right amount of balance in order to create the strongest, healthiest relationships, and that involves maintaining just the right amount of push and pull, of give and take, of love for oneself and ones significant other. It is not so much about trying to control the other person in our life; it is about controlling ourselves. The only manipulation is to our own thoughts and behviours; the side effect is that we stop pushing our exes away when we achieve this and actually attract them once again, and that's what everyone is learning here.

 

For sure, as mentioned previously in this thread several times, and in fact all over this forum, there is no point trying to win back our exes until we have worked on ourselves and fixed other issues that contributed to the relationship breakdown. Thankfully, nonchalance helps increase our self-esteem, and this in itself fixes many of the issues that existed previously. We suggest taking time to work on other points, including self-reflection, reading up on whatever ails us, and even seeking counseling. It was my counselor who first diagnosed me as codependent and suggested taking a more relaxed approach to relationships, to help break a destructive pattern, in order to help myself and reignite interest from my ex. It worked, but I had failed to work on other issues and the relationship broke down again soon after--something I was heartbroken about at the time but able to move on from more easily. I also came to realise, thanks to my new self-esteem, that she really was not the one for me and her issues were not mine to fix (in fact, I had been enabling her--a common problem with codependents: they accidentally encourage the destructive behaviours they try so hard to fix).

 

So, in many ways, I agree with you. And that statement is in no way intended as manipulation; I simply agree. I would just say it in a way that shows I have grown as a man. ;-)

 

 

Crap

[Strife]

So she just got back in, after leaving early from a night out, and woahhhhhh, to say the least.

Earlier, I made a point of disappearing off out without an explanation, to be a little mysterious, and this was interpreted by her, to mean that I was seeing another girl. In reality, I was getting some late night groceries. Anyways, she sent me text stating that I can't take all her friends, she doesn't care and that she hasn't been seeing anyone (I think shes still very drunk) and apparently my disappearing act, had an effect on her - crying in the toilets/acting weird.

She slammed the door on coming home, came to my room, I think to say sorry? I was upbeat,despite beig half asleep, and she said that 'it didn't matter' and went to bed herself. How can I nonchalantly reply to her text in the morning? I'm half asleep, and to say I'm confused would be an understatement o

[mr_zanon]

How can I nonchalantly reply to her text in the morning? I'm half asleep, and to say I'm confused would be an understatement o

I'd say, don't. Wait and see what happens next. Go back to bed and get some sleep.

[BeDour]

You two live together? Just wait it out then. Don't act like anything is wrong or like you did anything bad (because you didn't). Just be nice to her.

[Strife]

Well I was going to prehaps reply to it in the morning, while I was at work.

Yeah we live together, we go to the same university, and share a house with two other people.

I'll just be upbeat I guess

[CrapAtNC]

"Good night? Hope your hangover doesn't spoil this beautiful morning. ;-)"

[CrapAtNC]

Or, better: "Good morning! It's a beautiful day!" Help her feel better.

[Griffey]

I figured I'd join the thread and share my experiences, and try to help my fellow ENAers and gain some advice as well.

 

I'll briefly state where I'm at:

 

We dated for 2 years (both 25), then I became stressed with tests (important career altering tests) and I neglected my gf, got lazy and selfish. She found solace in one of her coworkers who she made out with. I called her out on it, and she broke up with me. I was needy, the whole bit during the first few weeks, then I went NC. About 3 days ago, a little over a month of NC, she IMed me to see how I was. I told her I was doing well, and moving on with life (truth) and I was finally getting over the breakup and was at peace. She obviously wasn't because she ended up starting a fight. I was strong and stood my ground for the first time during the breakup, as I have finally done some healing. She left the conversation because of an appointment. She then texted me a few times to say that she really was doing well and that she wasn't as much of a mess as I probably thought she was (yeah sure). I ignored the texts.

 

That same night I come home to a long email where she apologized for how selfish she had been during the last few months and how she finally has seen the error of her ways. She didn't mention reconciliation, but she sent out some signals that she may want back, and the overall vibe of the email was that she realized what she's lost. Additionally she said that the ball was in my court to contact her whenever I want. I imed her to thank her for the email, and we proceeded to chat and catch up for a little. Then I left to go to sleep.

 

This is where I stand now. I'm being cool and strong, and not needy, and I'm going to let things play out. I'm probably going to give it some time before I contact her again as I don't want to come off as needy and because there is no reason to contact her at this juncture.

 

I can't stress enough to the dumpees who haven't heard from their exes yet that NC is so important. It's what I credit in hearing from my ex. I am about to enter a long road here and I look forward to sharing my thoughts and experiences in this thread.