Nonchalance is Your Friend

[just not sure]

this post is full of truth. telling them no is necessary and you learn alot from it. my ex has been calling and texting and every time i ignore it or don't answer she gets defensive and starts asking why i didn't answer or respond to her later. well if she's so into this guy she's dating, why does it matter so much?

[PaleSeptember]

Hey Kevo and sadchick, I suggested we cook together, that it would be fun, but he says he wants to cook it himself. We actually did cook together sometimes when we were dating, and I cooked for him but he never really cooked just for me. Hmmm. Anyway, you're right, sadchick, what am I worrying about? This is why I need to read this thread, and get my nonchalance on! Haha.

[sadchick83]

Yea get ready, have a bit of champagne before he comes over...get yourself a bit relaxed. I just read your first post...sounds like your guy just likes his alone time. I think you have a great chance of reconciliation, if that's what you want.

 

Gage your own situation, I mean being happy and non chalant is great, but if thatis totally unlike you, I would say tone it down a knotch or two....Im sure it will be a great evening...post back of course.

[Tired Tiger]

I agree with RobD70 here completely. Yes, there's a valid point about the cause-and-effect of certain attitudes on human interaction, but it would seem as if this particular line of reasoning is based on a false premise. If a person were truly indifferent (or "nonchalant") about their ex, they wouldn't care about being in contact in the first place, wouldn't worry about reactions, and wouldn't be concerned about 'getting back together'. What we see here are people putting on an 'act' specifically to illicit a particular response. Then what?

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[Live-N-Learn]

Which do you guys like better as an apology to the ex for the other night?

 

Hey Tiara,

 

I looked at your phone and violated your privacy and then denied it. I am guilty as charged, I regret it and I apologize. This is my first offense and I throw myself at the mercy of the court. I am not perfect, but I am

sincere. I hope to hear from you soon.

 

Sincerely, Scott

 

Or

 

 

"OK, I looked at your phone. I shouldn't have, and it'll never happen again. I accept my punishment but throw myself at the mercy of the court. It is my first offense, your honor (and I really didn't see anything anyway).

 

Yours, Mr Guilty."

[mr_zanon]

Which do you guys like better as an apology to the ex for the other night?

I think you should not send her anything. Just forget the letter, the apology, and her.

Why? Because I think it won't change anything.

 

Edit:

But, if you decide to do it anyway, I suggest sending #1. But remove that "I hope to hear from you soon".

[KateUK]

I think you should have either apologised straight away or not at all. I think the moment has been lost now to be honest.... BUT you will do what you will do anyway, so when you do send the apology ;-) use the second one.

[Kevo]

Have fun PaleSeptember

 

Live n learn - I vote for the second or at least don't include "hope to hear from you". That makes the apology insincere to me. Like you're not sad that you looked, rather you just want her to speak to you again.

 

Personally, I don't know that I'd say anything though. Although if you apologized to a bunch if strangers on here, you probably should apologize to the person whose privacy you actually violated.

 

Finally, don't feel so bad. I've done it. My ex has done it to me. It's not right and we should be ashamed but we're human and insecurities can and do get the better of us sometimes. At least you're not alone.

[KateUK]

Finally, don't feel so bad. I've done it. My ex has done it to me. It's not right and we should be ashamed but we're human and insecurities can and do get the better of us sometimes. At least you're not alone.

 

I'll second that. Ask anyone who has been dumped and they will have done some form of 'stalking'. I just checked my ex's mobile phone bill online to see if he had been texting her since he moved out of her house...!

 

She would have done the exact same thing had you put your phone in her hand!

 

Looking forward to an update PaleSeptember

[Live-N-Learn]

Lol I am so confused on which one to send. If I send the first I will drop the I hope to hear from you part.

 

I doubt sending it will change anything but want to clear my guilty mind.

 

The first one just seems more sincere. Is that wrong? Why the second one? Its almost too nonchalant maybe? She might think I am not that concerned about lying and looking?

[mr_zanon]

I'm for sending the first one because it's a straight apology, and nothing else.

The second one seems manipulative. And, after reading "it'll never happen again", the first thing that would cross my mind is "of course, cause we ain't gonna see each other again. Ever."

 

And, for clearing your guilty mind, I also think that the first one suits better.

[Kevo]

Lol I am so confused on which one to send. If I send the first I will drop the I hope to hear from you part.

 

I doubt sending it will change anything but want to clear my guilty mind.

 

The first one just seems more sincere. Is that wrong? Why the second one? Its almost too nonchalant maybe? She might think I am not that concerned about lying and looking?

 

I don't think I would send anything so I picked the second because that is closer to nothing than the first, more sincere, one. Send whichever you want, the first is fine too (just don't imply she should contact you). Honestly, if I were you I would not expect a response from her so don't get your hopes up. Not saying she won't talk to you eventually down the line or it's over forever, I'm just saying that it sounds like she wants to be on her own for awhile so I don't think either apology will elicit a response. You had better be doing this for you because after you hit send and your phone doesn't vibrate right away, or that night or the next couple days, you gotta stay positive and keep working on yourself!

[Live-N-Learn]

I agree. I am not doing this for her. I don't expect a response and if I do it will most likely say I forgive you but we can't be friends anymore.

 

I know I will see her out and just don't want to have this on my conscience.

 

Leaning towards #1 right now minus the part bout hearing from her. I want to send it later tonight once I decide which one.

[bungalo]

Yeah, I am starting to think that she is using this as an excuse to end things with me. She hung out with Casey the bartender from the club on Wed night. Even though you lied to her...I think she is using this to "sanction" being with the

other guy. I don't feel like you owe her.

[Live-N-Learn]

I know Bung, I feel the same way. Almost like f-her! I qant to apologise for my integrity not to get her back. That is why I can not decide which one to send. Maybe something completely differnt? Lol I am such a retard! This will end tonight after I send something.

[mr_zanon]

I know Bung, I feel the same way. Almost like f-her! I qant to apologise for my integrity not to get her back. That is why I can not decide which one to send. Maybe something completely differnt? Lol I am such a retard! This will end tonight after I send something.

Edit: Nevermind. My brain was in the toilet.

[CrapAtNC]

OK, everyone, a quick reminder:

 

Nonchalance is about being less needy, more relaxed, happier, flirty, confident, in a healthier state of mind, and unfazed. It's our reaction to events that causes the biggest problems, not the events themselves, hence our need to adopt more positive responses. This attitude, however, is also very attractive, and certainly will stoke interest in an ex who up till now has been pulling away.

 

Nonchalance is NOT about lying, being insincere, being uncaring, or rude, nor about trying to formulate plans or to interpret signals. Even though it greatly increases attraction and reverses break-ups, it does not provide the method for reconciliation but rather the mode.

 

If you have attracted your ex back, as those of you who are truly nonchalant have, then treat this as a whole new possible relationship and let things take their course as they would in any other new relationship--but maintain your upbeat. unfazed attitude and you will have far greater success and a much healthier relationship. While there will be obstacles that one wouldn't find in a normal new relationship, we simply brush them off.

 

If the ex is seeing someone else but is spending time with you, then you are in exactly the same situation as had you met someone who was in a relationship that he or she may be seeking to end. If they present you with arguments based on the past, you just brush them off and lead the convo forwards. Relationship talks are for when you are already or about to get back together, and must always be sincere. If talks get emotional, make a joke of it, perhaps at your own expense. Nonchalance is attractive; cracks show vulnerability, and that is attractive too as long as you can show that you know everything will be fine regardless.

 

OK, on to responding to individual posts:

 

Feel free to razz me, feeling pessimistic today. Not to rain on anybody's parade...but sometimes I think, when they're done with you, they're done...and all the nonchalant banter in the world (probably) won't change things or bring them back...at least not for good. I have a hard time believing that my serial dumper ex...(3times dumped) will not do it again....I know nonchalance is to help you get yourself back, and retrain our brains and emotions to prevent needy, clingy behaviour which is so unattractive...

 

If you believe these things then they are true. If you believe you won't get them back, then you won't (right now; should you give up completely because of it, though, you know what will happen ;-) ).

 

You are in this thread for a reason: you get clingy when you think they don't love you any more. Stop it.

 

I need to make a confession to my fellow ENA family. I have been filled with fear and insecurity for awhile now over this girl. She has caused me to do things I would never do. My confession is this...I lied to all of you...her phone did not go off in bathroom...I was drunk and I chose to look at it out of my insecurities...I am very sorry for lying to all of you about this all day yesterday in my posts.

 

My heart is breaking right now and I feel like a fool for lying to all of you ...I hardly ever lie and why I felt I could not tell you guys and gals the truth I do not know why. I was afraid to be judged I guess after I started the lie I just kept it going. I hope you all can forgive me.

 

May I please ask advice as to how to proceed. Do I tell her? I think I do because I don't want to live with the guilt. Just not sure how to say it. It will have to be in a text or email cuz she is not talking to me. The truth is we will never be back together and I don't want to be her friend. If a girl makes me this insecure I can not be with her. If you knew my whole story with her you would know why I feel this way due to all the things she has done to me. Again sorry.

 

We've ALL done it, and no apology is needed, I'm sure. Yes, tell her. More about that later in this post.

 

I once got caught looking at the phone...I di find a single flirty text. I just admitted I looked. And I backed it by saying you can look at my phone anytime 'cause I don't have anything to hide.

 

Great response! Honest and nonchalant, and actually turning the trust issue completely around.

 

Sorry this may be a wee bit long,

 

Ha ha, oh lordy think I messed up a wee bit!

See what you all make of this,

Didn’t get the chance to send my email to her as I met her in the corridor at work and started chatting as usual just about random stuff, she then said that she had to go back to the doctors today for another heart check up? That concerned me as last she said months ago it was cleared up! So I wished her well without going over the top, And we started walking round the corridor to chat alone

She mentioned that I looked stressed and nervous, I am but that’s down to being very worn out travelling back and forth to work, working all weekend, sorting out my house and not being able to relax when I’m home thanks to having a lodger, I’ve lost a lot of weight I think because of it, and I have shaking hands now?? (gotta be stress… I won’t mention what she think it is..so bloody stupid!) “But hey” I said "Wont be for long, as I’m moving down to London next few months…"

 

Her moving here??” (surprised)

 

Me: “Yup, moving to xxxxx “ (North London)

(Now she kinda starts to panic for a couple of secs, that shield, just for a second faltered, and I get a load of “Where?”, “Have you found a place?” “ where?” “Where?”....which threw me a bit, then her shield back up and..)

 

Her : “Eh?? That’s near me!10min drive from mine, I have loads of friends round that part”

(put out look)

 

Me: “And? It’s close to my cousin, it's very nice and I can get to and from work easy”

 

Her: “It’s not that nice, my area is nicer”

 

Me (I screwed my nose up and did a whatever kinda look)

 

Her: “What did you do that for?”

 

Me: “Do what??”

 

Her : “Have you sold your house then?”

 

Me: “Nope renting it as can’t sell”

Now she looked a bit peed off when I said this (a) because I’m moving to North London (like she owns it!) and (b) because I can’t sell my house (that caused major probs as one of my ex’s is named on my mortgage and I didn’t tell my now ex about it...looong story!!)

 

So we keep chatting and she is honestly being as nonchalant as me?? Wth?? Whilst still having a laugh! Chatting about random stuff for a good 10-15mins

Then I get this cracking comment :

 

Her : “Don’t want you to take this the wrong way, but you have lost that belly you had and that double chin, that must have weighed like a small baby”

(I’ll take that as some sort of compliment)

 

Me: “ Thanks very much”

 

Her “you were.." (makes a sumo kind impression...hmm??) (Again I thank you)

(Think I said something random to that, not sure)

 

Her: “ Oh I need to go, my boss will kill me for chatting this long as I’m off soon”

 

Me : “ Okay, see you later, good luck with the doctors, I’ll mail you next week for a catch up if you want?”

 

Her: “Yeah okay, bye” (lift door closes, and off she goes)

 

So off I walk and get promptly eyeball undressed by her mate!!! Obviously my belly and chin have indeed gone heh heh!!

 

I seriously do not know how well that went, had no time to prepare for that, it was total make it up as you go along!

Hellfire, was a bit like who don’t care the most!! But I think I edged it, I got a reaction about me moving, I knew she never believed I’d do it!! But I now feel like a stalker for moving where I want, when I’m doing it for me, not for her.

 

Do you think I should mail her next week to say Hi and ask for a catch up or is that looking a tad clingy? Would like to know how she got on at the doctors as I am concerned about her, was thinking of texting her to ask how it went later but not sure it’s a good idea.

So what you Nonchalanters reckon? (not that any one cares..right!! )

 

P

 

Yes, mail her. But make it a suggestion rather than a request.

 

Next time you're chatting with her and happen to screw up (though I don't think you will), blame it on your state of mind since losing the baby and point to your stomach with a comical sad look. This is gonna be a great joke for you to refer to occasionally, but don't exhaust it.

 

And, yes, text about the doctor's, though say you hope it went well rather than asking a question; you don't want to pressure her in any way, and asking questions is a kind of pressure. If it's possible to make a joke about it too (along with showing genuine care), then do, if you think it will make her laugh: "Can they reverse the brain deterioration or not? Should I use easier words than 'deterioration' from now now on?" I don't know what the situation is, so be careful; if you think it might not make her laugh, then don't.

 

CrapAtNC: Great thread but I have a concern. I'm doing your method rather than NC because it allows you to occupy your mind with playing the game which is fun rather than going cold turkey. I believe I can pull the nonchalant act off very well but my major concern is whether there is a significant risk of being friend-zoned through your approach with exs and therefore losing your chance of reconciliation completely?

 

I'm currently seeing my ex of 4.5 years under the pretense of "just friends", I know she still has romantic feelings for me and I'm worried those will die if I just act like a friend around her for too long.

 

Is my concern justified? What's the best way to avoid this using your methods?

 

My methods do not suggest becoming friendzoned; it's a way of dealing with life's events. If you're being upbeat, flirty (comically flirty or teasing flirty is the key), confident, etc., then you are raising your attraction level. If your ex isn't making positive moves and continues to pull away, then you do the same. If they start to show signs of interest, then whatever you do don't blow it by acting like you need that. Play with it. Say things like "Are you falling for me again? I don't remember giving permission for that." Drop little seeds in the convo: "Jeez, if we ever got back together I think I'd have to get you to sign a prenuptual."

 

Nonchalance is NOT about being friends. It's about avoiding pushing them away any further (or when they start to pull back towards you).

 

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this too. I can't say that I remember how it happened since it was a month or so ago but I remember making it crystal clear for her that I in no way intend to be her friend. She said that she'll never think of me as just a friend. So I'm hoping that that is enough. That she knows that contact with me is to keep our communication open in hopes of a reconciliation. So I don't remember the particular conversation, but I believe she has a good understanding that if she begins to date someone else, I'm gone. And that might be her decision, which I can't stop, but I think she understands that choosing to date someone else means that I'm not going to be there anymore. Friends don't do that.

 

Then you MUST stick by that. COMPLETE NC. Or your assertion will have the opposite effect.

 

Just a short post -

 

In case my ex does get together with this guy she's been texting a lot and sorta hanging out with, how would I approach her telling me that shes seeing/going out with him? I can be nonchalant easily enough - its keeping it upbeat that I'm finding a bit of a challenge at the moment. I'm not really sure what I could say to it if she tells me. I'm not bothered - I know it won't last very long (if they even get together), but I've been mentally preparing for the 'Just so you know, me and X are seeing each other now'...and I cant think of a witty response, only a 'well if you're happy, i'm happy', which sounds a bit lame to be honest. Suggestions?

 

"No way! He was flirting with me at the club last week!"

 

"I'm sorry you're being forced to settle for less."

 

"What? What's he got that I haven't? . . . Oh, yeah: you. Oh well."

 

"Is he cute? Does he have a sister for me?"

 

"Hasn't the weather been amazing recently!"

 

"Another drink? Waiter! A glass of wine for the lady and six bottles of tequila for me. And keep 'em coming!"

 

"That's OK. I'm seeing a therapist, so we're kind of equal."

 

"Oh, yeah? Well I'm pregnant by your mother!"

 

Thanks Crap. I'll keep things mellow.

 

I'm also curious about the friend zone risk...

 

So I wake up this morning to her new status on fb: "You're killin me." I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but it does make me think. She hasn't been very talkative today either. I don't know...Anyway tomorrow we have our little lunch date set up. Other than keeping things light and fun, how should I act in the flirty catagory? Is being a little flirty breaking the nonchalance rule?

 

Flirting is great if kept funny: "You're really turning heads tonight." After she looks pleased with herself: "It's kind of rude of them to look away like that when you walk past, though, isn't it? Some people just don't know how to hide repulsion." Make sure you smile or wink. Be careful, but don't underestimate the power of making teasing digs, especially if she is hot. If she's not so confident about her looks, then of course don't do that. Be funny about other things, but still flirt funnily: "You look hot tonight. Let's hope the air-conditioning here can handle it." Again, with a wink or smile.

 

While I think this nonchalant is great and works BUT it appears some people are getting “friend zoned” here. I also feel that most of these ex’s have another person in the wings which makes being friends with them an even worse idea. You end up being an emotional crutch/enabler by filling in the voids the new person may leave in their new relationships.

 

See how Crap is doing? He has the best luck when he tells her “No” and tries to avoid her. Saying no can be a major turn on as it shows you are not 100% into them and that you have more important things going on. Break or refuse dates when they ask and if you asked them out don’t be afraid to cancel if it doesn’t look like it will go as planned.

 

 

Also this takes patients, people don’t change overnight and it takes months for changes to settle in and just as long for other people to believe them. Not days or weeks, MONTHS. I spent a year and a half off and on with my wife with another guy involved the whole time. I got her back for good when I stopped wanting her back. I wanted a divorce in the end so I could move on with my life and to be honest I wasn’t all that nice about it. I didn’t want anything to do with her anymore so she had to talk me into taking her back with a lot of begging and pleading on her part.

 

In hindsight I see that the more I tried to win her back, the more I failed. It wasn’t until I gave up and threw in the towel did things turn around for me. All this effort people put into trying to get their ex’s back could be used to better yourselves. Use the fact that the less you think about them, the more they think about you and enjoy your new freedom to do things you wouldn’t normally do if you were still with them.

 

It’s not your job to win them back, it’s their job to win you back and the less you want them, the more they’ll want you. Keep that in mind..

 

Those getting friendzoned are the ones who are yet to be truly nonchalant about their relationships. If we're getting friendzoned, we deserve better than that and will pull back. We'll also turn down requests to meet up and ignore the odd text message.

 

Look at the ones who are being truly nonchalant, like KateUK, for instance; she has her ex making huge life changes to be with her again.

 

I really don't know if I want my ex back, and I'm really too interested in exploring other options that are arising (got a date yesterday with someone I NEVER thought would be into me, but she called me and we went out). I actually feel like I'm friendzoning my ex, and that's the best way for me to look at it. If I decided I want her back, I'll tell her, in an upbeat fashion, and then pull right back. Nonchalantly, of course.

 

RobD70: you make some great points....Im not sure wher my situation will go, but everysituation is different. My guy and I never played games, so non chalance needs to be modified to meet our situation. Text book non chalace works great on short term relationships, but for the longer ones, you may end up with an ulcer trying to be non chalant

 

I love your responses. I do disagree with the ulcer comment, though. I adopted nonchalance at a time when things were going really bad for me, and I'm so glad I did, because things went from bad to far, far, far worse. Everything in my life fell apart, and I ended up losing a LOT--more than most people. But I came through it and ended up on top in next to no time--because I had been practicing nonchalance for so long. It actually PREVENTED an ulcer. Long-term nonchalance is something you should look forward to, not dread, for your own sake and for the sake of everyone around you.

 

I agree with RobD70 here completely. Yes, there's a valid point about the cause-and-effect of certain attitudes on human interaction, but it would seem as if this particular line of reasoning is based on a false premise. If a person were truly indifferent (or "nonchalant") about their ex, they wouldn't care about being in contact in the first place, wouldn't worry about reactions, and wouldn't be concerned about 'getting back together'. What we see here are people putting on an 'act' specifically to illicit a particular response. Then what?

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

You need to read the response I gave you previously. Nonchalance is not about not caring about people; it's about not letting unfavorable events rule you life and demeanour.

 

Nonchalance helps make horses much thirstier.

 

Which do you guys like better as an apology to the ex for the other night?

 

Hey Tiara,

 

I looked at your phone and violated your privacy and then denied it. I am guilty as charged, I regret it and I apologize. This is my first offense and I throw myself at the mercy of the court. I am not perfect, but I am

sincere. I hope to hear from you soon.

 

Sincerely, Scott

 

Or

 

 

"OK, I looked at your phone. I shouldn't have, and it'll never happen again. I accept my punishment but throw myself at the mercy of the court. It is my first offense, your honor (and I really didn't see anything anyway).

 

Yours, Mr Guilty."

 

Yeah, I agree with most here. Go with the first and drop the "hoping to hear from you bit". I'd add "and I should not have done that" at the end of the first line. And you can try a bit of reverse psychology: "If you can't forgive me, I will understand."

[kim1]

I agree with Bungalo. .

Yeah, I am starting to think that she is using this as an excuse to end things with me. She hung out with Casey the bartender from the club on Wed night. Even though you lied to her...I think she is using this to "sanction" being with the

other guy. I don't feel like you owe her.

[kim1]

Live n learn

 

I have looked at my ex's phone once and i saw a lot of flirty messages. He suspected I did but I never told him. He never asked me if i did but if he found out i would not be sorry. He used to always tease me about looking at his phone and we would both laugh about it. Even before I looked at his phone he would tease me. Like as if it was not a big deal. It's like human nature. I think it would be hard not to look when she handed you the phone at least at the call log. I say just get back to nonchalance. She blew you off that night you should be mad at her too. maybe you should turn this around by agreeing with her on not speaking to each other. Something like that

[bungalo]

Ok Crap,

 

I am fairly certain that I'm going to reach out to the ex by the end of the week (30+ days NC now). My plan is to ask her to lunch, and just have a pleasant, upbeat, time. Some guides and folks around here say don't leave a message on the machine..she'll see the caller ID and call you back if she wants. I don't think this sounds nonchalant. Wouldn't the nonchalant way be to just leave a brief, upbeat sounding message if she doesn't pick up? If she doesn't call back, oh well, but historically she usually does. Also, shouldn't the nonchalance start right away with that phone call?

[iduncare]

This is no good.. now I am wondering what sort of messages I will see if I have a chance to peek in my ex's phone!

 

Had a few nonchalant texts with my ex yesterday, not sure if I will hear from him today. It's killing me..

 

In a way I know even if he didn't dumped me, the relationship would not have lasted. He did not put in enough efforts to make it work, though he has said things like he wants us to last, he needed me etc...

 

Maybe my neediness towards the end have made him not want to put in effort. I don't know. Sometimes I am angry at him for giving up so easily.

 

I can feel him fading away... The more time has passed the more we are out of each other's lives.

[waveseer]

I have one question about nonchalance. How is it distinguishable from a genuine lack of caring?

[Live-N-Learn]

So how does this sound with the revisions?

 

I looked at your phone and violated your privacy and then denied it, I should not have done that. I am guilty as charged, I regret it and I apologize. This is my first offense and I throw myself at the mercy of the court. I am not perfect, but I am sincere. If you can't forgive me, I will understand.

 

My other thought was to just send a straight apology without giving her any power to decide the outcome. I need to be reminded that this is probably going to fall on deaf ears and it may just be for me. If she does forgive me, what will really change? With that said what about this option?

 

I looked at your phone and violated your privacy and then denied it, I should not have done that. I am guilty as charged, I regret it and I apologize. I am not perfect, but I am sincere. Scott

 

I want to send the first one because I still care about her and hope for reconciliation and to keep this going. The second does not give her anything accept an apology.

 

Which should I send tonight?

[BeDour]

I have one question about nonchalance. How is it distinguishable from a genuine lack of caring?

 

This. My girl is the type that will walk away if she thinks I don't care, just because she doesn't want to try if she thinks I'm uninterested.

[kim1]

why does it have to be tonight? No too many words I think or too many sentences. Something doesn't sound right.