I don't like to be friends with men.

[Deep Blue Sea]

I don't like to be best friends with men because they could end up wanting more or visa versa unless he's already married with kids. When I like to date I just go places and talk to people I'm interested in or I leave them alone if they're not interested. Everytime I make a friend with a guy I'm not attractive to, they find me more then that, to me it's pretty annoying I had to avoid them. I heard one guy had a female friend who finds him irrisistable, but he doesn't feel the same way about her. She kept annoying him by being obsessive that he had to end a friendship. I just don't like to be best friends with men I'm not attractive to. Sometimes I just be friendly with them as aquaintances. The last thing I need is a having a guy friend that's obsessively in love with me.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Well, to each their own, but there are plenty of real solid male-female relationships which are strictly platonic and there never has been a romantic interest on either side. It is too bad you discount 1/2 the population for potential friendships. It is not the gender that counts, it is the person's character that counts.

[LE DHUY NHUT]

I agree never be friends with someone you're attracted to unless you both feel the same....otherwise it causes more pain and drama.Men an women should never be friends unless there is attraction on both sides.

[Luke Skywalker]

Yup, there is too much mis-interpretation when dealing with male female friendships and what not and even if something starts out with the best of intentions then something could be lost in the translation and be taken to mean something more and you got a mess. This is especially true if anyone is single and looking for a relationship and has expressed romantic interest upfront, then why would anyone, guy or gal, be wasting their time taking them out of the single's market under the false hope that there could be a chance if they are not really attracted to them?

[jettison]

I agree never be friends with someone you're attracted to unless you both feel the same....otherwise it causes more pain and drama.Men an women should never be friends unless there is attraction on both sides.

 

All of these ideas about frienships, relationships, and attraction are just absolutely insane to me. Eveyone's take here is soooo foreign to my take or that of any of my friends. I have a lot of female friends. I'm attracted to many of them. I have a lot of male friends. I know they're also attractive. Why would I go out of my way to only have unattractive friends? And if a I know a woman who is attractive, but I don't plan to sleep with her, then I can't be her friend?

 

These ideas are just crazy to me. Life is too short to be that caught up in your head. It's not whether you're attracted to someone... it's what you do with it that counts.

 

As for the "it's so annoying" thing. Wow, I can think of worse problems is all I can say. If someone likes you and you don't like them back then just say so. Big deal. If they don't relent then don't contact them. It's not really all that hard. If they can't be respectful of the initial turndown then they weren't going to be a great friend anyway.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I absolutely agree!

[Luke Skywalker]

All of these ideas about frienships, relationships, and attraction are just absolutely insane to me. Eveyone's take here is soooo foreign to my take or that of any of my friends.

 

Foreign?

 

I have a lot of female friends. I'm attracted to many of them.

 

But you are not single right? If you have a SO then that doesn't count because you aren't looking for a relationship?

 

Why would I go out of my way to only have unattractive friends? And if a I know a woman who is attractive, but I don't plan to sleep with her, then I can't be her friend?

 

The OP is not talking about sleeping with someone she's talking about relationships. To me because I do not believe in pre-maritial sex, the difference between friendship and relationship is semantical - dating relationships means there is an intent to marry the person after a set period of time and is a marriage prospect and not a sex partner. A friendship would give you an opportunity to get to know someone in a more casual and relaxed type of context so that you already know them before you start dating them. But unfortunately, as you can see how people are thinking, even in Christian circles, that everything is all sort of messed up.

 

If you look at it, dating is the most artificial way of getting to know someone, it's contrived and everyone is on their best face and best behaviour, while everything is more natural in a friendship context. So, wouldn't it make sense to be friends first, get to know someone really well before taking the step to date them?

 

But not so - you got concepts like ladder theory, friendzoning, and nice guy vs. jerks and what not, to help explain the mess that is out there that people just jump to dating but if there is no chance of dating - then there should be no friendship - because what's the point of the friendship then if people just start getting 'zoned' on there if one party decides they are attracted and starts developing a crush?

 

But in a Christian sense, I can see that having healthy opposite sex friendships, such as in a group activity setting such as Bible study, etc... is healthy, you are just getting to know different people, and if there is a Godly connection with anyone of them, then you can always deepen the friendship and grow on it.

 

In a sense I agree that there is allot of confusion, hype and what not over the concepts of friendship, attraction, relationship, and sex - but I also understand that people do not wait until marriage to have sex, and if you are friends with someone who got intimate with someone else while you are interested in her, then I've found that pretty much defies my threshold of tolerance of this whole 'friendship' stuff.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

If you look at it, dating is the most artificial way of getting to know someone, it's contrived and everyone is on their best face and best behaviour, while everything is more natural in a friendship context. So, wouldn't it make sense to be friends first, get to know someone really well before taking the step to date them?

 

I agree. I think what happens is the relationship gets forced because it is based on lust rather than on any kind of solid framework. I think when you start from friendship you have more to build on.

[jettison]

It would be pretty difficult for us to be further apart on this topic I think. BTW, I'm single right now. I'm single, and I have female friends that are attractive. I've been with a few of these friends romantically, I've liked a few more as more then friends and nothing has happened, and I know that some have liked me and nothing as happened.

 

Friendships do not have to be a death sentence where your only purpose for relating to someone is to take them off the market and put them into bondage. Like you said a bit in your post, it is certainly more "natural" to actually get to know people as friends first before you actually think about having a serious relationship with them.

 

Why do you think it is soooo common for relationships to break down, and then you find out that one partner is in love with a the guy's best friend, or the woman's brother, etc. They got to know these people as friends first, in the safety of the off-limits tag, and realized that "Heh, this person is great to me, they dig me, they like me, and they'll keep being cool to me and they don't even have to be having sex with me for that to be so." They love me minus the demands of having to own me. So, once we are together officially, I"m going to know it's genuine and that they're not just using me.

 

What's better then that? If a woman likes me, but I won't be with her (for whatever reason), and then she decides she won't be my friend then I have probably lost a little bit of respect for her. So, she'll like me if I sleep with her? Sounds to me like she'd just be using me. If you really like someone then you need not own them. That just implies possession and an ego trip.

 

If I really like someone, then I really like them, period. If I like a woman, then I'm not going to stop liking her just because we can't be together. There are other women. Other women to love. It still doesn't mean that you can't "like" her.

 

And before you think that I'm some kind of swinger, I'm anything but. I was in a 10 year monagomous relationship, and I made it work very well.

[Luke Skywalker]

I agree. I think what happens is the relationship gets forced because it is based on lust rather than on any kind of solid framework. I think when you start from friendship you have more to build on.

 

 

Going back to the OP's perspective - the whole thing really gets confusing, because if there isn't any lust at all, then there shouldn't be any friendship either?

[jettison]

Going back to the OP's perspective - the whole thing really gets confusing, because if there isn't any lust at all, then there shouldn't be any friendship either?

 

Personally, I'm usually not very lusty towards someone unless there is a definite friendship angle as well. Maybe I'm just a freak that way.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Going back to the OP's perspective - the whole thing really gets confusing, because if there isn't any lust at all, then there shouldn't be any friendship either?

 

You can have platonic friendships where there is no lust. You can also start off as platonic friends and as the friendship blossoms and deepens, the lustful feelings develop. There is no law that states that in order for a man and woman to be friends there has to be lustful feelings. Why can't they be just friends like heterosexuals would be friends with members of the same sex? Some friendships between men and women can develop into something more as the bond deepens, but that doesn't happen all the time.

[Luke Skywalker]

It would be pretty difficult for us to be further apart on this topic I think. BTW, I'm single right now. I'm single, and I have female friends that are attractive.

 

Ok, but you are not looking for a relationship then?

 

I've been with a few of these friends romantically, I've liked a few more as more then friends and nothing has happened, and I know that some have liked me and nothing as happened.

 

Friendships do not have to be a death sentence where your only purpose for relating to someone is to take them off the market and put them into bondage.

 

But sometimes they are. The OP says her friends obsess over her and she gets annoyed and the other person probably gets frustrated or dissappointed. I know what it's like to obsess and it's not healthy for either party and it just seems to end badly.

 

It's good to see that you have healthy experiences with the opposite sex while most people on here have a very negative view of the friendship context because it doesn't seem to work.

 

What's better then that? If a woman likes me, but I won't be with her (for whatever reason), and then she decides she won't be my friend then I have probably lost a little bit of respect for her. So, she'll like me if I sleep with her? Sounds to me like she'd just be using me. If you really like someone then you need not own them. That just implies possession and an ego trip.

 

So, what does being with her have to do with sleeping with her? Doesn't it mean just going out in public with her like as in a date or something?

 

You own someone by marrying them, right? For example, you cant own a f-buddy or prostitute just because you sleep with them, so sex doesn't mean ownership.

 

If I really like someone, then I really like them, period. If I like a woman, then I'm not going to stop liking her just because we can't be together. There are other women. Other women to love. It still doesn't mean that you can't "like" her.

 

And before you think that I'm some kind of swinger, I'm anything but. I was in a 10 year monagomous relationship, and I made it work very well.

 

You seem to have a healthy relationship and friendship life.

[Luke Skywalker]

You can have platonic friendships where there is no lust. You can also start off as platonic friends and as the friendship blossoms and deepens, the lustful feelings develop. There is no law that states that in order for a man and woman to be friends there has to be lustful feelings. Why can't they be just friends like heterosexuals would be friends with members of the same sex? Some friendships between men and women can develop into something more as the bond deepens, but that doesn't happen all the time.

 

 

It seems that the bond is like 99% of the time one sided - that's what the OP seems to be saying and other threads on here that go on the friendzone rant.

[Luke Skywalker]

This is the first thread I cant take any sides, and am taking two positions at once - I'm a lousy debater, may as well argue against myself, very confusing topic.

[ycmanvs]

Usually, a mature human of either sex can have platonic friendships with the opposite sex. I hate to be so clinical about this, but I believe that even if there is a physical attraction, people can control themselves and not act on their impulses.

At first it may seem difficult to be "just friends" with someone that you find attractive, but after you get to know them, hoepfully you can be friends. I have many friends of both sexes. Some I find attractive and some find me attractive, but we agree that we should not pursue anything other than a friendship.

[Deep Blue Sea]

I agree never be friends with someone you're attracted to unless you both feel the same....otherwise it causes more pain and drama.Men an women should never be friends unless there is attraction on both sides.

I totally agree. If I had a guy friend and I'm attractive to him and he doesn't feel the same way then it's best that I leave him alone and discontinue the friendship because I'll just wind up getting hurt.

 

 

As for the "it's so annoying" thing. Wow, I can think of worse problems is all I can say. If someone likes you and you don't like them back then just say so. Big deal. If they don't relent then don't contact them. It's not really all that hard. If they can't be respectful of the initial turndown then they weren't going to be a great friend anyway.

My point is that things like this happens to me all the time, once they're attractive to me they won't leave me alone and that is annoying. Either I feel the same way or discontinue the friendship.

[jettison]

I totally agree. If I had a guy friend and I'm attractive to him and he doesn't feel the same way then it's best that I leave him alone and discontinue the friendship because I'll just wind up getting hurt.

 

 

My point is that things like this happens to me all the time, once they're attractive to me they won't leave me alone and that is annoying.

Either I feel the same way or discontinue the friendship.

 

Ok, this is interesting. I know a lot of women who are attractive. Some attractive women NEVER seem to have this problem. Sure, the guy may show interest, but it never becomes anything resembling obsession.

 

I know other women who always have this problem. And when I examine the way they are in their friendships, they are usually pretty naturally flirty. And then they later wonder, "What's that guy's problem?!"

 

Perhaps it's time to examine the way you interact with these men. If you're puting out zero signals, but they're still coming on that strong to you and won't relent then there would appear to be something wrong with the men you're befriending.

 

I don't see anything wrong with a man making a play at his female friend AS LONG AS he is not a persistent jerk about it and takes no for an answer.

[JadedStar]

Why do you think it is soooo common for relationships to break down, and then you find out that one partner is in love with a the guy's best friend, or the woman's brother, etc. They got to know these people as friends first, in the safety of the off-limits tag, and realized that "Heh, this person is great to me, they dig me, they like me, and they'll keep being cool to me and they don't even have to be having sex with me for that to be so." They love me minus the demands of having to own me. So, once we are together officially, I"m going to know it's genuine and that they're not just using me.

 

Well Jetti one might say this is one reason why extremely close male/female friendships are a bit risky. Your point of view is hip, cool and modern but I've seen far too many close male/femlae friends who swore to the world it was platonic and they end up sleeping together or leaving their SO's for each other.

 

I am not saying opp gender friendships can't or should not exist but there is a reason why some of the really close ones can fail if they are in relationships with other people....I don't think most people keep a level head like you do ...

[tiredofvampires]

DEEP BLUE SEA --

 

I think it is wise to end a friendship where you feel that your attraction for the person is getting in the way of your being able to focus on other aspects of the "friendship." If you feel your "love" unrequited is causing you ongoing pain, it is very understandable that you'd need to put some distance between you and the other person, maybe even complete distance.

 

And I think it's wise to end a friendship where you feel the other is going through the same ordeal, and it's tainting your interactions on a regular basis.

 

Though having said that, what is "friendship"? I think that is the key question. Do you morally support eachother, share meaningful conversations and activities and interests, do you make eachother laugh, bring eachother up when down, do you feel you can contribute to this person's life and they to yours? If so, from MY experience, that is a level of "friendship" that goes beyond, "He isn't attracted to me, I guess we should stop hanging out." There is more in it for me, more positives working to make that a connection worth having, but it is built upon some of the things I've listed. And there are more. So I would try -- and usually have, successfully -- looking past the sexual attraction part to enjoy the richness of what else there is. It's really a matter of what this friendship is made up of. If it's made up of encounters based on trivialities, chances are the motives really are not "friendship" in the fisrt place, it's a set-up for one party to feel out the romantic potential of these interactions. This is what I'd call a "trial balloon," not a "friendship." Friendship for me is much harder to shake loose, even if I am turned down as a love interest or sense that the other person would have wanted that (or I have to turn them down.)

 

I had a very sweet male friend a while back who helped me get through some heartbreak. We processed feeings about our exes together, went to movies, had lots of laughs. Then he made it plain that he saw me as lover material, and I just didn't feel that "spark" for him. It was very hard for me to tell him that, because I've been on the other side of those types of feelings he had. After not long, by his choice, we were no longer in contact. He just stopped calling. It was very sad to me, I felt I'd lost a wonderful companion and was mad at him for a long time. I understand his feelings, but I wound up thinking, "I wasn't much more to you than a possible gf? All the rest is worthless to you?" I think ironically, I was as hurt as he was, felt as gyped as he did, only in a different way.

 

Fortunately, most of my friendships with the opposite sex do not turn out this way, and I have as many male friends as female, if not more. The attractive ones just give me a little more eye candy for the laughs shared.

[jettison]

I agree with you. If you can't control yourself then DON'T be friends with the person. I was faced with this in a very intimate way earlier this year, at a time when I was very emotional and succeptible. It happened twice actually.

 

My roommate is a bi-sexual. Her GF and her broke up. Once the breakup happened, her GF started contacting me to hang out. I thought it was just a friendship thing and I even asked my roommate "Is it ok if I hang out with her? I don't want to make anything uncomfortable for you." But it turned out that she wanted much more then what I imagined. She was looking at me as a new boyfriend, and she talked about moving in together. I have to admit, this woman is absurdly attractive. In fact, the first time I ever saw her, I walked into my living room, looked at her then looked at my roommate and said, "Damn, your new GF is cute."

 

In any case, I told her "no". I just said that I liked her a lot as a friend, that I was very attracted to her, but that I valued my friendship and relationship with my roommate. She was upset, but ultimately she understood. We're great friends now. I love her to death.

[JadedStar]

In any case, I told her "no". I just said that I liked her a lot as a friend, that I was very attracted to her, but that I valued my friendship and relationship with my roommate. She was upset, but ultimately she understood. We're great friends now. I love her to death.

 

Yep, I'll say it again. NOt everyone will keep a level head like you.

[LE DHUY NHUT]

I have no problems being acquaintances with attractive females,as a single guy you can damage any prospects you have by being friends with them whether it's before or after you show interest.If they don't show interest in you then being friends first and hoping to sneak in through that method is dishonest and fake. IF they agree to date you then you can get to know them better.If they reject you then losing an acquaintance is a lot easier than losing a friend.If they are attracted to you but cannot be with you for whatever reason then accepting friendship is also settling for less than what you want.Be friends with your buddies and don't be any girl's pseudo boyfriend/confidant/shrink/shoulder to cry on.That's what her friends are for or that's what a real boyfriend is for.

[Deep Blue Sea]

I have no problems being acquaintances with attractive females,as a single guy you can damage any prospects you have by being friends with them whether it's before or after you show interest.If they don't show interest in you then being friends first and hoping to sneak in through that method is dishonest and fake. IF they agree to date you then you can get to know them better.If they reject you then losing an acquaintance is a lot easier than losing a friend.If they are attracted to you but cannot be with you for whatever reason then accepting friendship is also settling for less than what you want.Be friends with your buddies and don't be any girl's pseudo boyfriend/confidant/shrink/shoulder to cry on.That's what her friends are for or that's what a real boyfriend is for.

As I said before I don't mind male aquiantances because they're not close friends and I don't often have to see aquiantances. I still say it's hard for me to remain friends with a guy if he has feelings for me and I don't for him or vice verca, in my case it has to be a two way street or no street at all.

[tiredofvampires]

Be friends with your buddies and don't be any girl's pseudo boyfriend/confidant/shrink/shoulder to cry on.That's what her friends are for or that's what a real boyfriend is for.

 

I dunno -- do guys cry on eachother's shoulders and have long, deep talks with one another to process their emotional "stuff"?

 

Can they get a woman's opinion about men from their "buds"?

 

I sense that's what the men who have women FRIENDS (not just acquaintences) have those friends for.

 

As a woman, I cannot get the same type of advice or perspective from my women friends. So girlfriends are great to have, but sometimes I feel like I'm just hearing more of myself. A sister is precious, but I never had a brother, and that's how I see my male confidentes.

 

And when I can't talk yet to my bf about something, or want to get an opinion about how I should talk to him about it? No one better than my male friend to give me a clue.

 

There's room for everyone at the table, and everyone adds their own bit of wisdom.

 

I see my social life as a potluck dinner spread. Some things you pass by, some you taste and decide "nah", some things you really love but can only take so much of, and some things you just heap on and get seconds. That's the way friendships are, depending on the dynamic, not the gender, education level, race, sexual orientation, single or coupled status, or television show preference.