Relationship With X

[Jeffbobo]

It's hard. Ive had to tell my daughters at this point that they are not old enough to make that decision. Yeah, I've heard the "you're turning them away from me" comment as well. I get bombarded constantly with this stuff from them. They call me out of the blue yesterday evening when they were with their mom. I ask them how things are going. They say they're making dinner. Ok. Where's your mom? Well, she left. She says that we annoy her. I said, what??? I get these types of comments from them all the time and worse. What the hell? After that, we proceeded to discuss after school plans. Two of my daughters have games, the other will go to after school study until I'm off work to pick her up and go to one of my daughters games (my other daughter has an away game). Text from the ex this morning... I won't be able to pick out youngest daughter up from school today. I see this and I'm thinking, first off, it's not even your day. Secondly, you don't even have a clue as to what they have going on. It would be SO much easier if she was just not in the equation. Lol.

[John Bendix]

I could write on this subject for a while and have on this thread.

 

My kids were 12, 17, and 19 when the X moved out. They all begged me, before she wanted out, to take them with me when I left. Fortunately, the court awarded me to be custodial parent. The two minors signed affidavits that they wanted to live with me. The youngest refused to go to his mother's place for the court determined visitation. She would come over and plead with him but he refused. She would wait outside our house for days on end and call them but they would not even answer her calls. She would come to their games and they would hardly talk to her afterwards if at all. This did not do my heart any good. I was accused, to the kids and our mutual friends, of turning the kids against her for many years (It could not her doing in her mind. It had to be me poisoning them against her) without me being aware of it. The thought never crossed my mind to use and hurt my kids. I do not think in this type of devious way. My interest was them and remains so.

 

In the past years, they deal with her in a strange sort of way. They now that she is extremely selfish, lies a lot and has a huge phoney side but they accept it because they want a mother in their lives. They will not or say do anything that will hurt her but that is a one way street. She refuses to see she has caused. She has told me that she has done nothing wrong. Who tried to calm them when they cried themselves to hysterics over their mother and her bizarre and surreal behavior? Who took them to therapists when they got clinically depressed, had (and still do) anxiety attacks, and got drunk as adults screaming, "Why did my mother leave me?".

 

Let those here tell me how it was all about the left behind spouse not meeting the "needs" of the other until it was too late and they had no choice but to move on and that's alright. Talk to my children and let them feel the pain I witnessed in my children and had to get past in regards to the activities of the spouse that lost themselves and tried to take everyone around them with them without regard or compassion.

 

It has been explained to me by many therapists that it is better for the children to be raised by one rational parent than two when one is emotionally incapable. When that other parent is so diminished that they in survival mode, emotionally, and do not have any thing left for anyone else. Hence the drastic self involved demeanor. The children are whats important. They are in a developmental stage of their lives. Give them guidance, love, and compassion. Compassion is identifying the connection that we all share with one another. It is the key to dealing with other beings. I have compassion for my X and what she has put herself through. I have expressed this to my children and I believe that they have this for their mother, unrealized by her but the truth never the less. They saw me upset many times, not over my situation, but by being unable to help their mother through her emotional and mental turmoil. Compassion-

[IAmFCA]

I have sole custody (I am the mom) and they see their dad every other weekend. Their dad behaves in a wave pattern - a few weeks of talking about good intentions, followed by a few weeks of "i dont have gas to come pick you up".... the kids, who are 11 and 14 and who met dad's gf and her son while we were still married and sharing the same family home, have learned to accept dad with his limitations.

 

I fought for sole custody because i knew they would not be the center of his life, and regrettably, they know it too. Still, they embrace the feeling of family that is building with his gf her son, and their new daughter. They are in need of affirmation from men, and we talk about that, to help them be aware of it.

The biggest gift we gave ourselves was to not have anger. it took a year or two. we decided to accept what dad is good at, and let go of wishing he were there for them/us in other ways. accepting his limitations was the hardest thing we have done as a family. i am grateful they (and me too i think) have found a way to love him for who he is and look past what he isnt.

I havent had enough money or time to parent properly, and so I've no retirement left, we live in a small space, and my career has faltered. I regard all of that as temporary. The kids are thriving, incredibly well and in deep, meaningful ways.

 

The early battles that won me custody were worth every bit, and the broke balance sheet I now have is worth it too. I am grateful for the other parents on this thread who have fought hard in their children's interests. It is SO worthwhile, just the fight itself tells your kids how important they are.

[waffle]

Waffle - I hope now you can see the fundamental differences between your situation and others on this thread?

 

I've seen it all along. The truth is there ARE some divorced men out there who are not saints.

 

I have a kid who landed in the hospital over Labor Day weekend. Had to have emergency surgery. Sad thing is, as stressful as that should have been, it was one of the least stressful things I've been through recently. What was low-stress about it was the fact that the medical staff: 1) identified the problem, and 2) were proactive and efficient in solving the problem. Would that all areas of my life functioned like that.

 

I had my oldest kid call and alert xH when my sick kid was admitted. He wasn't there for the surgery (was nothing for him to do anyway, and it wasn't as if we were going to sit in the waiting room together) so I waited alone while my oldest filled in for me because the youngest had school activities going on and someone had to do it. xH did show up that night at the hospital, and even offered to take the youngest with him but guess what . . . youngest wouldn't go. Frustrating, because I really could've used the help!! But xH hasn't exercised any parenting time in two months now despite the fact that the court provided every other week during the summer months (which never happened even once, either during summer 2013 or 2014) and the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

Oh, and then my mother has stage 4 kidney disease (SURPRISE!!) so I've been dropping everything to go and attend to her medical stuff (she lives an hour away) when she needs someone there. Yes, me who can't really be taking time off work being that I have a family to support and I haven't received a full child support payment in almost 8 months. Considered yesterday for the first time, possibly selling the house . . . I may have to if something doesn't give. But off I trot to take care of everyone else, and then get to witness Mom reaming out the medical staff and blaming everyone else for her medical problems, she is quite literally the patient from hell (my kid was the model patient, I'm telling you. But my kid is decades younger too, and not seriously ill). Mom is scared and stressed because dialysis is imminent, I get that, but yikes--this is going to be a rough road.

 

I'm telling the kids they ARE going to xH's this weekend. I need a break!

[IAmFCA]

Waffle, I hear you. When my daughter was bitten by a poisonous snake, and she was 6 hours away by car, her dad said to me, Well, go if you want, but don't put your job at risk.

 

Huh?

 

I drove 95 miles an hour. When she was getting released from the hospital, she said, "I learned how many people are there for me." And then she listed, among other people, "And You, Mom, you drove 6 hours and you were here the same day!"

 

Some parents don't understand how scary it is to grow up, and to wonder whether anyone has your back. And to wonder whom you can trust. I am grateful I get to be that parent.

[waffle]

Besides the typical "mom" stuff, I do all the "dad" stuff too . . . and it's just so natural to me to do it that I don't even think about it because I've been doing it for so many years. For example, just yesterday I went with my oldest to get the oil changed in her car (although she COULD go by herself, it's not that scary) and then last night when I was posting here, it didn't even occur to me to mention it! Because it's just what I do automatically.

 

The guys who were doing the oil change noted that she needs a new rear tire. So I was thinking about when we could do that, and trying to gauge how much it might cost to prepare her ahead of time--she pays for all he repairs herself, thankfully! Then they asked her if she knew how to check her oil and I had already showed her that, but it was long enough ago that she needed a refresher so they showed her how to do it . . . and I reminded her she needs to do that regularly because this is an older car with 200,000 miles on it and it burns about a quart of oil per oil change, and if she discovers she's a quart low she can just go to WalMart and get one but to make sure it's the same kind, so be aware of what kind of oil they're putting in. See, I remember my dad handling all this stuff when I was a late teen with my own car just learning about it, showing me how to do car stuff, etc. It occurred to me that no one particularly appreciates the "dad" side of me and I don't even realize I'm doing it for the most part, because it's just part of my daily life and I've just always done it; I think it's expected, like it's just my job and my responsibility. I would faint dead away if I ever got credit for any of that, though. Not that I'm complaining, I just find it interesting.

[IAmFCA]

Both genders are subject to parenting assumptions that have both good and bad short term effects. When my exH used to travel with the babies, people would help him with his luggage and generally look after him. Ask any woman traveling as an only adult with young children whether they ever have been helped with luggage. ! There are a number of active fathers in our community and yet when play dates are arranged, it is the mothers who are contacted, not the fathers.

 

Writing this, I am not sure what assumptions are made about me from which I benefit. Common sense tells me they are legion. Perhaps as a practical coping mechanism I have learned to filter them out and just go about my way.

 

Waffle, I remember changing my own oil in college. Then I remember telling a male college friend, "No, I can't go. I need to change my oil today." He never expected me to mean, I was actually going to drain the pan and install a new filter etc. He was shocked, especially as he had no clue how to do it.

 

I have lost my diligence about car maintenance. Kudos to you for being such a good teacher and role model!

[waffle]

We went just a little while ago to get the tire for the car, and the place was closed. Grrrr. So we'll have to go on Monday afternoon sometime.

 

I think the kids are spending the weekend at dad's this weekend for the first time in months (despite the fact that a week on/week off schedule was ordered during the summer months which of course has never happened. He knew at the time he wasn't going to do it, but he successfully lowered his child support burden that way, not that he pays child support, but whatever). So anyway, youngest is over there now and I'm preparing to meet a friend/former co-worker that I haven't seen in a while. Female, if that matters. lol. Another kid is supposed to be going over later, but wanted to hang with friends but I have to figure out if kid needs to be dropped off or what. And then what about picking up later? If I'm out with my friend . . . I said, "maybe your dad can do it" and as soon as I said it I knew that was a dumb thing to say. Kid just said, "he won't do that" and I agreed. He has a pattern of refusing even the smallest of favors, so we just don't ask him for anything anymore. Shoot, I've had to send the kids over there with food in the past because he can't be bothered. So I feel guilty of course, and am trying to rearrange my schedule tonight in order to run taxi service for the kid--ON XH'S WEEKEND (and again, it's his first weekend in months). Which I don't mind, but I would feel unbelievably guilty if I just left and wasn't able to take the kid to the friend's house. xH never feels any guilt about anything. He puts himself first and doesn't care one whit about anyone else. Sometimes I wish I could do that. But truthfully, I don't know how he looks at himself in the mirror.

 

Of course, I AM taken for granted by the kids. I know this. I've wondered sometime if maybe I should just once do something for myself, and let the kids see what it's like if Mom isn't there to do EVERYTHING while Dad refuses to glance away from the TV, much less get up off his @$$ and actually do something.

[reinventmyself]

To the original poster. . didn't know this thread was this long and took so many turns. . but for whatever it's worth. . .I don't know your wife and she may very well have some underlying issues, you may never know.

But as a divorced woman who chose to end my marriage I am not at all surprised anymore by the men who tell me that they didn't know what happened. They were blindsided and woke up one day to a very unhappy woman and had no clue as to why she wanted out. Actually about 99 % of the men I meet say this.

 

I had one newly separated coworker crying to me that her soon to be ex was telling everyone she was crazy. After all why would his wife leave a great guy like him?

I consoled her and welcomed her to the `club'. The club of woman that mysteriously woke up crazy one day and divided the family. As if we are that heartless and it was that easily done.

 

With going into to too much detail let's just say I fought for 2 years to save my marriage and I have no regrets. . We went to counseling and I fought for a healthy equitable relationship while all the while he fought to keep things the way they were. . .because that's what worked for him.

 

To this day I have no doubt he walks around saying he has no idea why I left. . but what I do know is that there were only 2 people in the room during these discussions that went on for 2 years before I gave up any hope.

 

I don't think this is male quality but more of a human condition but anyone that tells me they don't have any possible clue why a partner of long duration left get's an eye roll from me.

[Brotherhood67]

I'm sorry for you but truth is : many men or women leave without a fight.

They cheat, see a better option (what they think is a better option) without regret, without remorse.

And one day, after a long time thinking of themselves and themselves only, they leave. Not because they actually gather the courage to do so, no, of course not.

They simply want to get rid of what they think is a dead weight : You.

[Jeffbobo]

I'm sorry for you but truth is : many men or women leave without a fight.

They cheat, see a better option (what they think is a better option) without regret, without remorse.

And one day, after a long time thinking of themselves and themselves only, they leave. Not because they actually gather the courage to do so, no, of course not.

They simply want to get rid of what they think is a dead weight : You.

 

Interesting discussion. So what is it? Cheating? Why do they cheat? I believe that men and women value different things in a relationship. What does that mean?

 

Reinventmyself had mentioned that 99% of men she meets say that they were blindsided. I mean, I'm an awesome provider... I'm successful for my family and for us. I don't drink, I go to church, I coach baseball and do all the stuff I should be doing so what gives? My ex wife said that I was not there emotionally for her and neglected her. Said I'm blind. But look at all I have done for you? I built a world for you where you can stay at home with the kids, built a farm in the country from the ground up with my own two hands, house, barns, successful businesses, successful career, all for you. You want, you dream, I do bad make it happen. I'm up at 5, takes me an hour to drive to work, have to work 8-10 hours to be successful to pay for your dreams, drive an hour home, need to do farm choirs, build this, fix that, create stuff for your businesses, kids activities, run here, run there, exhausted, in bed at midnight, get up and do it all over again. What more do you want from me. Is this not what you want?

 

Again, what does that mean; valuing different things? Not sure about anyone else here but when I married, we married because we were in love and we didn't have a pot to pi$& in. Think back to the time when you first started your relationship. What were those things that you did for one another? Bring her flowers out of the blue (and I'm not talking lame valentines day where she knows it's com'n). Call her and tell her you are thinking of her. A love note you write and hide in a place she'll find it. Take her out dancing. Sharing a malt. Laughing at stupid crap. Long conversations where you open up about anything without fear. Taking interest in things she's interested in and actually listen. taking her for a ride on your motorcycle, to no place in particular. Doing a chore for her that she normally does. Playful banter. Intimacy. I can go on and on. All those little things that are taken for granted. All those little things you don't do anymore or perhaps once in a blue moon. All those little things you don't see as important. Who would have thought it'd be so damn simple. Sure as hell, the guy that she sees value in that is or will woo her is doing these things.

[lostandhurt]

This thread was started long ago as a way for anyone that came here to get help, vent and try and understand their ex's current behavior as it affects them today. A great many of us have children and thus need to interact with our ex's.

Debating opinions about why someone decides to leave whether male or female really isn't why this thread was started but often times it comes up for what ever reason. For most of us here understanding the why is a long ago memory but dealing with the weekly and some times daily dysfunction of an ex is a very real issue.

 

Lost

[John Bendix]

I am the original poster of this thread and thanks for letting us all now that this thread is long and takes many turns.? For what it is worth, my X had many underlying issues as you call them and still does. It makes it hard to have a "Relationship with the X" and thus the thread.

 

What ever your situation was , most of these mentioned here may very well be different. Citing empirical data such 99% of the men you have spoke to does not seem to hold much credence. Explaining your situation does not diminish the overwhelming evidence for such spouses to exist in large numbers. And yes, contrary to what you believe because it might appear be an attack against your actions, these heartless, selfish, and emotional distressed spouses are out there in numbers. Roll your eyes all you care to. Does not change what is.

[waffle]

John, you sound very dismissive. Could anyone else's experience ever be valid, or is it just automatically discounted because it doesn't match your own personal experience?

[Jeffbobo]

This thread was started long ago as a way for anyone that came here to get help, vent and try and understand their ex's current behavior as it affects them today. A great many of us have children and thus need to interact with our ex's.

Debating opinions about why someone decides to leave whether male or female really isn't why this thread was started but often times it comes up for what ever reason. For most of us here understanding the why is a long ago memory but dealing with the weekly and some times daily dysfunction of an ex is a very real issue.

 

Lost

 

Agreed. Which reminds me... I has an awkward discussion with another parent on Friday as I was picking my daughter up from volleyball practice. I was waiting outside the locker room waiting for my daughter and there was a woman standing with me doing the same. I sparked up a conversation with her while we waited and said I'm waiting for my daughter xxx. She said, "Oh, your xxx's dad, your wife was yyy and your divorced. I'm so happy for you, she is a complete nutjob. I don't know how you lived with that. You must be really happy." Now I'm thinking to myself, first, yeah, she is a bit of a psycho but I'm also thinking, I really don't even know this lady and she's telling me this? My comment to her was, yeah, well, she's trying to figure things out... I didn't know what else to say. This isn't the first time someone, a stranger or an aquatense, has mentioned something like this to me. An awkward position to be in.

[lostandhurt]

Good on you Jeff for taking the high road. There are many temptations while walking it but you stayed the course.

 

When relative strangers confirm out of the blue what you have always suspected it does give you food for thought.

 

The worst part is that no matter how much you want to help they have to see it and then get the help for themselves. Anything else is viewed as controlling on your part.

 

Actually the worst part is what the children have to go through...

 

Lost

[reinventmyself]

"Citing empirical data such 99% of the men you have spoke to does not seem to hold much credence"

 

Surely not empirical data but my experience, only.

 

I do also state it's not a gender issue and it's merely a human condition where I suppose the message here was for all of us to be able to look at ourselves from the other side and own our responsibilities the demise of a relationship. I made a lot of mistakes. . But I also totally understand why the relationship fell apart. There is no mystery to me.. . That's all.

Do I catch myself making the same mistakes. .absolutely. The good news is I am aware and I do catch myself. It's a work in process.

 

If we can't take something away from such an experience we are bound to replicate the same mistake again.

[John Bendix]

John, you sound very dismissive. Could anyone else's experience ever be valid, or is it just automatically discounted because it doesn't match your own personal experience?

 

Thank you for making my point to the poster since my experiences were discounted with a roll of the eyes.

[lostandhurt]

Well it is going pretty well on my side except with one little thing.

 

In our decree my ex is to pay 50% of all out of pocket medical costs for my son. I pay for his health care, take him to all his appointments (she never shows) and cover just about everything which is fine. He is my son and I love him and he is my responsibility but...

 

I make copies of the copays and deductibles and the like, scan them and send her an itemized list showing her portion she owes me. My son has a lot of appointments, medical equipment etc. so the bills roll in pretty consistently. I try and save up a few and send them to her so she can pay me back but I never get a reply or even acknowledgement. I have taken to just emailing her and adding onto the amount each time. I don't press the issue but they are piling up and will be a decent amount of money owed at the rate it is going.

 

Any ideas how to nudge her into paying without causing some crap storm?

 

Lost

[Raoul]

Lost,

 

Every little thing with my ex seems to end up either in court or a battle royal between our lawyers which costs a mint and accomplishes just about nothing.

 

I wish you well in finding a more reasonable path.

[Jeffbobo]

If possible, deduct the amount from what you pay her a month in child support. That 50% is what *she* should be paying to support her own child. You have all you need to back it up.

[Raoul]

Jeff,

 

Shield support is federal. Messing with it can land you in prison.

[Jeffbobo]

Seems reasonable to talk to her and attempt to negotiate something with her on this. Other alternative, like you said, is for the lawyers to suck up more money you don't have. I guess its just one of those things you put on the balancng beam. Is it worth the money and hassle to go down the lawyer route or to just pay it yourself and not deal with the BS.

[benga]

Lost - after all this time, is it not possible to have a grounded conversation with her? Explain your position calmly and see how she responds. When was the last time you met face to face? When was the last time you spoke on the phone rather than text or email? Meeting face to face after all these years might actually be a healthy thing to do for the sake of your son...

[John Bendix]

lost, I went through the same exact thing. My X never paid one dime of the 50%. Lawyer said taking her to court was a economic bad move. As for Benga's point taking to her rationally, I hope that you can. in my case it is still not possible.