rich_1517

no i dont think so.

im not there so i cant say for sure. i think she is confused. how old is she?

she could be trying to get you to change your mind or plans. but she is probably just not able to reconcile the two. on one hand she wants out becuase you will leave her, on the other she misses you.

Yeah steve

you are in a tough spot. are there no jobs? or are you committed to a carreer path you have to follow.

hmm well i have to rethink what i want to do again.

some say make her wait. others say go ahead try.

im starting to think just being myself is the best solution, if she resists that then just keep busy with other things.

i thought about asking her what she thought of our conversation monday.

thanks spartan, are you in contact with your Ex? i know your story. have you become friends?

Steve i think she is telling you what the line is. stay and you get me. go and you dont. thats what i see so far, that could be knee jerk so dont swear by it but it sounds about right.

she comes back becuase while she may feel that she has to honor her own feelings about long term needs, she misses you and wants you. then she remembers you are leaving. that might explain the back and forth behaviour.

it sounds like you have talked about options with you away? and she said she doesnt feel comfortable with that.

if you changed your plans to stay, or if you were able to. is that what you want, and would she respect you if you did?

tough call.

Keep it coming randy

i will look at your post and see what i can from my experience. we dont have to take all the risks. sometimes getting their respect is doing exactly what we think will be bad.

the question is which thing? some times its not calling, or calling when you normally wouldnt. I want to be careful here because words can lead to action. there are some great "tactics" but should be used when its time.

randy i think you are dead on. i had to deal with her being emotionally closed off at times for most of our relationship, and truth be told IF we got back together it could be work until im dead. in my case she has said she is more willing to fight for what she wants.

I dont think she realises that means talking about her feelings more.

Steve, in your case you may have to start sending some mixed signals on purpose, as hard as that is. dont pressure her, she stresses out becuase in the past you may have said "we have to talk" a couple of times? just a guess.

thats why in two months i have brought up the relationship a total of one time. i am trying to show she can be safe with me and that i am not trying to change her. but communication is becoming essential now.

I need more information about you two though. why did the break up happen?

no steve keep talking here. thats the point. we bring people with common problems into one location to find a solution. we are both in similar situations.

i will start pointing some of the other people i know here and maybe we can find a common solution. so keep posting. its the whole topic of getting them to come back. which is why many of us are here anyway.

the question i believe is timming and respect. that they will miss you when you drop the bomb.

we are taken for granted becuase we say its ok. we are afraid to make conditions about our feelings becuase we think they will say goodbye forever.

thats the key i think stop thinking they will say goodye. use their taken for granted to our benefit. im planning on changing the words soon.

the fact is they will not do anything they dont want. so how we get them to do what we want, commit or other? thats the end goal.

in my case i have to get her to start talking, thats tough especially for her. if i can get her to go back to the point that she started to lose hope, and give up. when she didnt get what she wanted, and tell her i am just willing to listen, not judge etc. that will be a huge step.

the question is how. she has had a very easy ride, and i think she likes it. so i need to create a motivation for that conversation. she isnt opposed to them it just cant have that "we have to talk" aspect.

if she is willing as i did to look at those feelings that may be blocking of feeling stronger about me again, it should work.

actually steve it does help.

yes it feels like slow death. i guess i have to do nothing. which feels like a betrayal of what i thought was important about us.

thats the hardest part, to have someone who i shared my whole life with take me for granted. she is stubborn and selfish right now, and i am afraid i said "go ahead" and treat me that way.

oop posting to myself again.

i think i am down from the contract ending early and its making everything unclear. i am going to spend the morning looking for work.

i have time on this. she goes into a week with her son now. and next month the ex husband leaves for chile for a month. that is the time to being pushing and pulling again. in the meantime i have made dates with some pretty awesome women. im not kidding, weird how that happens. I am not going to say anything yet. i need that clarity. she has made no committment so...

but here is where i am starting to head.

that she needs to start showing an active interest in me, i cant do this alone. dates are intended to go somewhere, not stand in place and keep what you have.

to make something happen, for feelings to emerge trust needs to be rebuilt which means lowering your guard. will she trust me?

if you are having trouble finding feelings more then friends go back as i did to the point you lost them and ask yourself if what you didnt get, what upset you is still a factor. can you let go of those feelings that are blocking off passion? its what i did.

she confuses everyone on this. no one knows what she is up to. it sure feels like she is selfishly holding on to me. i could use that i suppose, and just not give her the friendship piece at all, no things with her son.

the longer this takes for her to say ok ill try, the less chance i feel there is.

Perhaps i need a new backbone.

i caved in yesterday after her not calling after we talked on monday. the talk was about continuing dating, that i do not want to be just friends and if that is the case then i have to move on. she said she is open to feeling more again, and wants to find passion again. so more dates, i really pushed then and said are you really open to "feeling" she said yes. i said ok dates.

but.. we havent kissed, i tried that night she pulled away. she has not brought up the relationship until i did. she is making no efforts at all. this is all me doing this.

i started the call normal chatty like we always do, then she said was there something specific? I asked, where did we leave things? (meaning are you letting me go or is more going to happen here.) she said we are still going on some dates right? confused I said yes, she didnt even hesitate.

so relieved but feeling spineless. i guess that is what i want or wanted. but i find each week i want more. im not willing to settle for her being aloof anymore.

so i could just walk away and start dating. or i could say something but what? that you take me for granted, there is no physical contact, if you want something to last with me show up for it? there is no power play with this girl, she is flat and unemotional.

i cannot make her feel something she is unwilling to.

hope or die? your thoughts?

well its back to unclear again.

she thinks we are still going on some dates.

i dont know, there hasnt been any kssing, she doesnt want to talk about anything unless i bring it up.

she falls back on the friends thing all the time.

i dont know whats going on anymore. im lost.

well i suppose i could have played the love game for a long time with her. the seduction and friend thing, but i dont think she would have come over the line without a motivation. i really believe that now. she wants to see me as a friend. she wants to move on and these were mercy dates.

what i asked for the other night wasnt even reconciliation, it was just i need to know you will try, make a date, be open to what happens, consider that passion blah blah..

in other words no real pressure.

i now understand her comment of "will you call me if you want to talk"

thats her saying "ok your moving on i wont call you i will let you get over me, but call me if you want"

I could be wrong but i dont think i am.

so i am hurting big time. this is a lot of real loss now. no more games, no more hope either. just loss and sadness. i now need help in letting go.

well im sad. im letting go. i think there is something else going on, maybe the ex, i dont know.

i dont expect to hear from her now. i have made my boundaries and i am going to start dating.

i am very very down. i am glad i could show up as i did. i guess sometimes things end. you have your chances and miss them. perhaps i will look back and say wow she really wasnt the one.

then she and i will talk someday and she will be doing the same things over and over again.

but i loved this girl, i really did. i have to start throwing stuff out and making arrangements for her stuff.

whatever happens i have to open up again even if it feels wrong, i have grieved already enough i think. i have to let someone in part way to help me heal.

having my job end yesterday didnt help. but it did give me some focus, i think its possible she is hooking up with her ex, he dumped her years ago, maybe she needs to see what that is truly like again.

anyway. i may not post for some time. i dont know.

my suggestion is to wait him out, i think thats what you are doing>?

i know how hard it is. you know what you have gotten in the past. do you have a plan? have one, it stinks i know to have to put so much "thought" into a relationship.

thats my only advice online. im around more if you want to chat. they killed my contract early

thanks GeeCee

I am reliasing (again) that ok if i want this to work, it means more work. acck.

she trusts me, she wants to find her feelings. she doesnt understand that in love is blocked by disappointment, fear, etc.

she knows she loves, trusts and respects me. that i have most of the things she wants in a partner, that the changes i have made are very much waht she watns and needs.

so she is as expected over focused on "in love". i am considering telling her six weeks or lets try a little longer. consider these things

-> that "in love" is transient, but can be found overcoming fear, trust, disappoinment

-> that love, respect, etc etc are why a relationship works

-> that i need to know you want to find a solution

-> that if you do i have ideas

she was very open to my suggestions about how to introduce pasison. she also calirfied that her "choices" in men being the reason for loss of passion didnt include me, that was nice to hear.

yeah i know next morning feelings.

she didnt flinch at touching but not being able to kiss is a tough one.

i guess it doesnt end here does it? unless i choose to end it.

she is apathetic. meaning she sits and waits for things to happen. the key was things not happening on her time frame, me not moving in, etc. thats where her feelings went.

well a couple things are clear from last night

-> she isnt talking to anyone but me about her feelings. she doesnt trust anyone.

-> she would like to find her feelings again

-> its tied to her trust and conditions that werent met before

-> she is still around

ok so IF i wanted to i suppose i could ask her to trust me to find a way to her feelings. that we agree not to date others a litte longer. but she has to want to find her feelings, nothing would work if that isnt so. if she says yes then i have ideas.

she doesnt understand the difference between loving someone and being in love. the friends thing is where you start. she does trust me and she is open, but not physically yet.

this is murky i could just say "yep" its over, but thats not what i saw last night.

the thing is anything i suggest is colored by it coming from me. therapy, relationship weekend, seduction. she has to feel some desire for it to work.

suggestions or observations?

Yall would have been proud.

i said it all, i said not just calm but with love in my heart. but i felt more attractive, more confindent and well, just me than i had in a very long time.

ok heres what took place:

i told her that we are ending. that im sad about it.

that before we got there there are things to say.

i told her that what we are doing is just what caused us to fail in my opinion. two people waiting for something to happen.

that passion left becuase we both gave up, who feels passionate about someone who doesnt acknowledge or accept them?

she kept saying i see you as a friend, i want to feel more but i dont want to fake it.

so i said then you have to let me go. so she said what about more dates?

i said are you truly open to what may grow? she said yes.

i did kiss her but she wasnt comfortable, she doesnt want to lose me thats clear so i said the next date is on you.

but if you want to find the passion start looking to life without me, it may give you motivation.

she is open to the idea of me doing things to create passion between us.

i suggested dating others may be the right move to see by comparison just whats out there.

she said she wished she had left two years ago, so much has changed. i said i know thats why we failed, we both sat and watched, didnt try and let the relationship suffer.

it was amazing but sad too. but if you watched from the edges you would have been smacking your head, my roomate said jesus you are guys are in love. she doesnt see it....

so when she left it was a hug and a peck. she hasnt talked to ANYONE about her feelings. NO ONE. so we know why she isnt moving in any directions, she stays confused and waiting, and eventually that apathy will kill it, this i know.

she definitely understands that if she doesnt show some interest or be more open that im gone, she gets it. the question is will it be enough to create feelings? i have no idea.

but either way i showed up in way i didnt think i would or could. i am not a beaten man anymore.

I still want her, and the feeling less then is gone. the question is NOW WHAT? on this i am lost, but she was so much more open to me then before it was crazy.

I know she could call or write back and say bye, but she wont, at least i dont think so.

but tell me this: she said "we'll talk" i said i dont need to, if you want to we can. she said "will we talk if you want to?" what is that? oh she wants to see if i am still hooked.

cheers

well i may mistaken but i think as i get more away from this and relaxing the chemistry seems to be becoming more normal.

it still means something needs to be said, the question is how much. i will set the stage for a quiet evening at my house, and see where it leads. i will not be able to hold off talking except in the face of one thing.

if she says something first, or gives sign. we'll see.

well now im still thinking.

truth is im winging it. perhaps like facing death im still bargaining. but also perhaps trying something "normal"

i could tell her her options for the evening, a romantic dinner for two or a conversation.

i mean what could be the worst she could say? im not comfortable with a romantic dinner?

sure thats pressure. so?

as i was pondering the doom and gloom something happened.

i changed. i no longer wish to change. lol

i was wondering if i have the resolve now to see this through. but with a different approach.

NOT CARE. sure bring up that if you are interested in me you will have to show it.

but maybe a little more making plans for life without her, in her precense. tell her about plans, activities, friends, and a trip to my favorite island.

i hate to be a jerk, but am ibeing? i can tell that i think we are repeating the pattern, i can tell her that she is losing a friend. but do i need to?

if actions are louder then words which would have a stronger impact, being elsewhere and less intereseted, or telling her i will be?

is confronting her apathetic (its her style) behaviour better for me, or just begin life anew, and let her squirm, not squirm but watch control disappear?

it will go in the face of what i have beeen doing, but if she still cares she may ask. whats up?

thoughts?

yeah mar.

i know, its just so much loss in one year. im so NOT myself right now. this has taken its toll. i wihs i could see clearly what to do, what to say. but i cant right now. my confidence is low again becuase i am looking this directly in the face and i dont like what i see.

so i will just show up as me tonight. that also means my hurt too, i dont know if there is any other way. i could just let it be my anger, but that would cause more hurt for me long run.

i am sooo sad right now, this is not what i wanted. i dont respect myself around this anymore. and the path to self acceptance seems to be flushing it.

the only question now (again), is there any middle road? is there no path besides tell her to show up or take hike?

well my plan now is just to keep it fairly simple:

-> i think we are following the same plan with this "dating" that caused us to fail. one person waiting for the other ....

-> i have been patiend and understanding..

-> you seem to be turning me into a friend....

-> passion gets lost becuase....

-> trying also means trying if it is just friends, being a friend enough to walk away and let me get over you.

-> what are your reservations?

-> you will have to make some tangible effort for me not to move on

-> end it

well i am definitely clearer but very bummed.

im realising i gave away sooo much. that im not sure i have her respect even.

i mean who would respect a guy who agreed to be in a dating situtation like this after three years together. maybe im being too hard on myself. i just feel my bargaining power for tomorrow is low. but have to remember i am a good catch. if she doesnt know that then i am better off.

at least i can stop focusing on turning me into "the better guy" and just be me.

arrggghh. im having an extremely bad day.

this whole thing has got my head in a vice. i have become shell shocked.

my brother suggested something interesting. make a move on her. no really just go for the back rub or the kiss and see how she responds. hadnt thought of that, by now in the dating process i would have definitely done it. she wants to date so um, sure.

then is she balks or backs off, talk to her.

interesting idea. i dont know, but i know how to set it up. no distractions, couch and fire place. then just tell her to turn around. and start. i think maybe i have been so "gunshy" from ehr words that i treat this with kid gloves while walking on eggshells.

it would definitely make things clearer quickly.

im alittle nervous, i have had dizzy spells the last two days for no reason. i may be over tired from all of this, i dont know. kind of frustrating.

but let me hear your thoughts, i think talking is still important, if only to point out that nobodies making a move this way. honestly with spring here and both of us not feeling any romance for some time, it dont look good. but i need to screw that thinking and quick. if i keep setting out to lose i will.

getting her to open up and commit to anything seems very difficult.

well another post, this is a good place for it. its like speaking to a lobby of people walking by, some times somebody pauses and says "what buddy?" you tell them and then they either say something or they dont. but you go right on talking.

my fear right now is that she spent the weekend with her mom. her mom wouldnt tolerate what she is doing, she would call her on it. now if she is just scared of losing me her mom will hammer her into saying bye. if she is stuck on the pasison thing, then maybe if i am lucky her mom will explain it to her.

so i am ready to have the discussion its just down to details now.

sigh.