charley

Business appointments, doctors appointments, and any other appointment have the possibility that the date, or especially the time, can be written or remembered wrong, or was never heard correctly in the first place. Hasn't anyone ever missed an appointment by accident? A date is a type of appointment. A misunderstanding or miscommunication can happen. So an accidental standup could happen. It's an irrelevant issue really, because there are so many other reasons to confirm. There are so many good reasons to confirm. So do it. The confident approach of verifying details like time are a good way to handle it. You don't need to ask if you're still on because confirming the time will tell you if you're still on.

Perhaps it isn't that some men fear intelligence. Perhaps they fear an aggressive Type A woman who brings that attitude home. Then no one can relax at home. No one can relax around a control freak. My grandma and my sister are both Type A at work, but they mellow at home and are fun to be around in their homes. (grandma is gone now, but I remember how she was) However, my mom is an irritating Type A at home who won't let anyone relax. Always giving orders, picking, nagging, criticizing someone (me, dad, sister, etc). She always has to control everyone. I hate it. That's why I confine visits to my mom to one hour. I always have an excuse planned for why I can't stay longer. So perhaps this is less of an intelligence issue and more of a personality issue. Just an idea. Perhaps it's not an intelligence fear at all. Perhaps it's a fear of Type A women. I'm not afraid of Type A women because I assume they can turn it off at home. However, if they can't or won't tone it down at home, then I don't want to spend time with them. These things become apparent when you spend quality time with someone. In my past relationships, I was about 2/3 submissive with women. I was happy with them making 2/3 of the decisions, but I wanted to retain 1/3 of the power. That's me. Other men vary. My prior lady friends were Type A outside the relationship. Inside the relationship, they toned it down to varying degrees. I don't want to be the master or the dog. I want to be partners. Other men vary. Some men want to be the master. They aren't going to want a Type A woman. Those guys are no catches anyway, IMO. Other men want to be partners. Possibly equal partners, or possibly some other balance of power. These guys like some Type A behavior in a woman at home, but not to much. It's like spice. A little is nice, but to much is bad. I'm talking about within the relationship and home. You can be as Type A at work as necessary. I'd respect that. There are very few men who'd want a woman to be totally Type A at home and everywhere. I have a friend who does, but honestly I find it hard to respect him. His 100% Type A domineering, mean wife sets me off. That's amazing that's she sets me off because I'm normally mellow and submissive with women. It's the way she belittles and abuses him that gets me angry. For me, it's hard to respect him and impossible to like her. I think these are some issues that men have with Type A women and often associate intelligent women as being Type A. Type A ladies, use your superpowers for good, not being a bully. Find a way to let him know that you are kind. Kindness and consideration are the best way. i.e. - asking and caring about the other person's opinion and feelings. This should be a two way street.

Dude. Snap out of it. I think those women are hitting on you and complimenting you. I think they're attracted to your height and letting you know that in a flirty, teasing way. You're being insecure. Just have some confidence and enjoy the attention. Next time one of them says anything about your height, just smile and be happy knowing she wants you. That's what it means, IMO and IME. In addition, she wouldn't call you tall to be mean or to belittle you. If she felt that way she'd say nothing about your height. I think she's liking it. If I'm wrong, then get another woman who likes you as you are. But I think I'm right. It's probably a flirty, teasing, compliment and you're freaking out because you're a bit shy. Also, you are young. No offense, but 21 is very young. So maybe you don't have enough experience to know when a girl is coming on to you with compliments. They often do this in a teasing way. Don't confuse being teased in a complimentary way (flirting) with someone picking on you - two totally different things. Girls only tease guys they like. They don't waste their time on the rest of us. FYI - my brother-in-law is a "tall" Latino at 5' 10" and married to my 5' 7" sister. My sister isn't attracted to his height because for her, he doesn't have much. She likes his light brown color and dark eyes. He likes her light white skin, blue eyes, and naturally blonde hair. My point? There's plenty of other things people like beside height issues. Don't obcess on it, but enjoy when it happens. 5' 10" is not tall in my opinion for the USA. However, this is very tall in the mind of most Latino and Asian women, and shorter white women. I've triggered the tall response in these women myself before. I should have been flattered, but instead I was a bit confused at the time because I'm one of the shortest men in my family and alway thought I was short. So while a short gal was drooling over my "height", I was wondering "what height?". However, after getting older and more mature, I know realize it's not about how tall you or she is that matters. It's the difference that triggers the response. Now that I'm mature, I just enjoy her "height" response if it happens with woman who's shorter than me. I also respond strongly to shorter women. i.e. - it's a two way street. At a distance of more than 20 feet away from me, I find that a woman's height does not matter to my attraction. At that distance I'm noticing legs, T and A, hair a bit, face a bit. However, if they're standing right in front of me, I'm looking at her face. There is something very sensual and attractive about a woman looking up into my face, if she's making continuos eye contact (with or without talking to me). I like this so much it makes me blush and get dizzy. So if short girls like me, I darn sure like them too. I think the strongest attractions I've felt are to women shorter than me. I'm also attracted to taller women, but not with the same "makes me dizzy" intensity. You could start dating taller women, but you'd be cheating yourself. Just date who's attracted to you that you share a mutual attraction with. That might well be shorter women. Might be taller ones too. Don't set rules about height. Just go with whoever likes you and you like. NEVER tease a short woman about being short, IME. That is one thing many of them are sensitive and insecure about. You could hurt her feelings and self image. When she teases you about being tall, it's a flirty compliment. If you tease her about being short, you're being insensitive and cruel, IMO. I think teasing should be limited to complimentary teasing only. To her, being called short might be an insult.

Many women prefer taller men. However, I wouldn't call 6' very tall. To me 6' is average to small. My dad is 6' 4" and my smallest cousins are my size. Many of them are 6' 4" up to 6' 7". I'm 5' 10" now. I used to be 6', but that's another story (car crash). As a medium height guy, this issue doesn't affect me much. Maybe I only thought I was medium height. Ladies, do you think 5' 10" to 6' considered tall? If so, that's news to me. Shorter guys make up for it in other ways. For example, if a guy is macho, he looks a lot bigger and taller than he is, even to other men. Why do you think there's so many cocky short guys around? No offense intended to any short guys. Also, if a guy is smart enough and respected enough for accomplishments and authority, he looks taller than he is, even to other men. So ya, taller guys have an advantage in one area, but no biggy. =============================================== As an example, I have a good, older male friend whom I respect and look up to. I remember once when I was in my 20s being at his house and we were working on a car. He was about 66 then, but a very fit guy. Also he's whip smart. To me he was a father figure. Anyway, it was cold wintertime. I hadn't brought any overalls. He suggested I could use a clean pair of his. Apparently we both thought he was bigger than he was. I was amazed to find that I couldn't even get into them. They were to tight and way to short. Jeeze! My friend was just a little guy! I'd never noticed that about him before. I always thought of him as a big guy. A big attitude counts as much or more than a big or tall body. That's a fact.

Not because of etiquette either, although it's nice to hear that the ladies seem to appreciate it. I'd do it for myself. I want to know. Frankly, I think it's a sign of intelligence, common sense, and maturity to confirm. I'd do it for a business appointment. Surely she's at least as important as that. So confirm. Confirming is the way to make sure you (and she) have the details the same (time, place, etc). Without confirming, one of you could end up standing up the other by accident. That's so terrible. Also, as a man, I find that I'm afflicted with male hearing disorder. (I just made that phrase up, but the problem is real). It means that sometimes we guys don't pay proper attention, or just hear what we want to. Other times we heard right and she made the screw up, but it's still going to be the guy's fault (even with a nice, sweet women). Trust me, if you don't confirm and then one of you makes a bobo, it'll be your fault because you're the guy. I accept this quality in women since it normally is my fault. Most women are like this, not all. So confirm it, IMO. FYI - This may not apply to your case, but sometimes mean women will stand a guy up on purpose. Flaky ones by accident. It's not always the guys fault. Confirming will prevent these problems.

Regarding Dammit Janets post: You are very insightful. Many of the things you said are the same things I said earlier. Particularly the thing about smarter women and older men. Yes. Middle age men (25+ and especially 30+) are often attracted to younger women, especially if they are smart. This is often a two way attraction because of emotional and intellectual compatibility, in addition to physical attraction. It's not just women who have problems with looks and smarts interfering with dating. Mostly women perhaps, but some men have similar obstacles. I'm a smart guy and I look 8 years younger than I am. I'm 38, but look 30. That means that women my own age usually don't want me because they don't want to be seen with a guy who looks much younger than them. The nice thing is that I can date smart younger women (typically 23 to 30) because these smart young gals seem to prefer me and I prefer them. That's awesome, in my opinion. If the gals my own age don't want me, I couldn't care less because the younger gals are just as smart and often hotter. When I was in my 20s, my young looks were a terrible problem. Imagine a guy 22 who looks 16. What woman in her 20s wants to date a guy who looks 16? I was reasonably muscular and 6', but had a baby face. Likewise, imagine me from 25 to 30 still looking only 17 or 18. Once again, what woman in her 20s wants a guy who looks 17 or 18? The young face was a huge disadvantage. Now it helps me. All through my 20s, I really only had two groups of women who were attracted to me: High school girls who thought I was still in high school. No thanks. Anyway, their parents would have freaked. My other option was women in their mid to late 30s who found it sexy that I looked 18. I went for the latter choice. Actually, it would be most accurate to say the latter choice went for me. I was shy, but it didn't matter since my 36 yr old g-friend was outgoing and a bit aggressive. When we got together, I was 23 but looked 17 or 18. She was 36. So I was her boy toy. I'm not complaining though. She was super nice to me always. I've never been treated that good before or since. She also liked the fact that I am intellectual. She was a very smart, professional lady. She enjoyed dating a younger guy who looked younger still. It was great for me too. Point being, it's not only women who have these problems. Yes, I can relate. Quite frankly, I never got to date a young woman in her 20s when I was in my 20s because they didn't want me. Now they do. i.e. - I've never been out with a women my age or anywhere near my age. My age group women never wanted me because they were uptight about a guy looking younger than them. They still are. I used to feel bad about that. Now I realize that I'm lucky in this regard. Sometimes an age difference can sweeten a relationship for both people. Not only because an intellectual young person can (sometimes) find an intellectual equal in an older person, but also because in my experience, they appreciate each other more. FYI - I'm shy with women in romantic situations partly because in my 20s I never had a need or an opportunity to develope certain dating people skills. i.e. - my older g-friend(s) took care of everything. I just had to cooperate a bit. Now that I'm the older person, I need to be more proactive. This is a big change for me. However, I'm working on it.

You were talking about type A vs type B personalities. What do you call someone who switches back and forth according to context? Because that's what I do. I'm type A in my dealings with men and type B in my dealings with women. I don't understand that myself, but that's how I am. Mmm. I entertain and perplex myself. Come to think of it, that's how my sister is. She's very type A with most men and all women. However, with her husband she's a mushy type B. They love each other madly. So it apparently works well for them.

Hi SlightlyBent: Yes you are correct that the library is to limiting by itself. My short list of places to meet smart people was not intended to be all inclusive. It was just an abbreviated few examples. Your list of examples of good places to meet smart people is much more indepth, well rounded, and is excellent. The supermarket is indeed a good place to meet people. Everyone has to eat. I like the library because I have other legitimate research business there and I'm friends with one of the librarians. So even if I don't meet any women, I'm still having a good time and accomplishing something. I personally have little interest in art because I'm a technical type. thereforeeee, going to an art gallery would bore me and would be dishonest about who I am. i.e. - I'm not going to pretend interest in art just to meet a woman. So I wouldn't personally do that. However, if a person were interested in art, then it would be a great place to meet people. My point is that the "place" needs to involve an interest and purpose for being there beyond just meeting people. That way the experience is fun and serves a useful purpose, even if you don't meet anyone. Also, if you do meet someone, you'll have a common interest, if you really want to be there. Political rallies to meet the opposite sex? Ya I've heard of that. However, I don't claim a party and don't want to. I'm an independent who agrees and disagrees with some of what both major parties offer. The last thing I want is to deal with politics while trying to have a conversation with a woman. But that's me. For some people this could be a great place to meet passionate, like minded people. For me, it's repellant. How about church to meet people? Here again, this is good for some people and not for others. In my personal experience, not so good. Why? Because you've got a bunch of church busy bodies in your business watching your every move. I hate that. However, my 17+ cousins mostly met their spouses in church. So it works for some people. On the other hand, I've heard a couple of them complain that their paster still interferes in their relationship and business even after they're married. I find that interferance repellant. However, my other 15 cousins are very happy. Very sorry to hear about your exwife. I did put a disclaimer that said there are exceptions to everything I said, and that I make no guarantees about people.

To Dako Sir, no disrespect intended, but you didn't read very carefully. I clearly said I become shy under a certain set of circumstances. Namely face to face contact with an available woman who I am attracted to. It's the attraction combined with the opportunity that creates the possible reward-and-risk that triggers the shyness. Possibly also lack of experience with women contributes. I'm sure you'll have some smart remark to make about that. I clearly stated that I'm not shy around men, or women I'm not attracted to. Also not shy around women I am attracted to, if I know they're unavailable (married or have boyfriend). Outside of that one set of circumstances, I'm very outgoing. I'm also a very outgoing writer, which you've noticed. Yes, my writing style is outgoing and persuasive. Good. I'm proud of that. I'd hate for my shyness in one area of my life to affect other areas. Most peoples' personalities are multifaceted. I'm shy in one area, but that does not carry over to other areas. It certainly does not carry over to my writing. Thank God. In the area I'm shy (face to face romantic prospect), once I get used to a woman (after weeks to months) I gradually come out of my shell and become my normal outgoing self with her too. Online I'm never much shy because it's not face to face contact, even though some of these women are attractive, they're clear accross the country, not in front of me. Furthermore, shy isn't my writing style. So yes, I'm outgoing online and in writing. I wish I were outgoing in all situations. On the other hand, I do have my own brand of charm for women patient enough to spend the time. Just because a person is shy under a given set of circumstances does not mean they are shy in all situations. There are women here who like shy guys and have experience with them. I'm sure they can tell you I'm correct about this. If you're implying that I'm pretending to be shy to look for women online, I'm not pretending. I am shy under those circumstances I described. I'm not looking for a woman online, but I wouldn't cut myself off from anything either. I prefer to look for women at my local library and at work. However, in those face to face situations, I actually am shy. If I were being dishonest, as you imply, I wouldn't publicly post these things. I could have sent that stuff as all PMs to women and you'd have never seen it. I publicly posted it because it's the truth. The more I think about it, I'm insulted. You've implied, or perhaps even stated that I'm not being honest. You don't know me sir. Sir, if you still don't believe I'm shy under certain circumstances, that's your opinion, but honestly why should I care what you think? Do you at least believe that smart women can find smart men at the library? i.e. - I hope you don't think everything I said is B.S. This is a supposedly free country. With freedom of speech you have the right to be as wrong as you want. Quite frankly, I mostly care what women think. Men's opinions are of secondary importance to me. I don't want to be rude, but there it is. That might explain why of my 7 close friends, only two are men. The rest are platonic women friends. I think I relate to women better than men. That probably has a lot to do with my natural instincts. If a women gets upset with me, I always want to explain that I didn't mean to upset her and say I'm sorry. If a man gets upset with me, I'm likely to ignore him or tell him to stick it. So I suppose it's natural that I get along better with women in platonic context. To bad I'm shy in romantic context, but that's life. Charley

A lady sent me a PM asking about shy guy behavior because she likes a guy she thinks might be shy. So I'm going to post my thoughts on that below for everyone to see. Not all smart men are shy. Not all shy men are smart. However, the two qualities do seem to go together quite often. I think smart men are likely to appreciate and respect a smart woman. I think a shy man is likely to treasure his woman (whether she's smart or not). FYI - I've never known of any shy man who cheated on his woman. It's the extrovert men who do that. I'm going to use myself below as an example of shy guy behavior: (I'm a combination of smart and shy) I'd never cheat on a woman. I mean never. You could bet your last dollar in the world on that. Why? Well first of all, it's not my nature. Think of a shy man as a shy cat. A shy cat only let's it's owner pet it and only rubs up against it's owner. It avoids other people. That's it's nature. That's my nature. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually very outgoing with men, women I'm not attracted to, and women that are safely unavailable, but show me an available woman who I'm attacted to and I'll show you my imitation of a shy cat. I'm referring here to face to face contact. I'm new to this online stuff, but it seems my shyness is less online (even when attracted). So imagine if I were married and along comes another woman that I think is hot looking (I'm shy, not blind). I could be friendly and outgoing to her only because I know I'm unavailable. However, if she tried to touch me or stand to close, I'd flee the area and go running to my wife. As difficult as it is for a shy guy to become intimate with his mate, there is no way he's going to cheat with someone else. I'm sure of this. Another reason I'd never cheat is that loyalty is part of my nature. I just wouldn't betray my woman. I think that's typical for shy guys. I would never abuse a woman. I can't imagine any shy type guy doing that. I also would not tolerate receiving abuse. However, I personally know three shy men who are abused by their women. With two of them, it's verbal and psych abuse. With one it's also physical. Personally, I wouldn't put up with it. I'm shy, but capable of being assertive when needed. I said assertive, not aggressive. We've all known men who abused their women. That is trajically common in the world. In each case that I personally know of, the abusive guy is an aggressive, controlling type guy. I don't ever recall hearing of a shy man abusing his woman. Has anyone ever known a shy man who abused his wife? I never heard of such a thing. That's me. I suspect other shy guys are much the same (but I don't guarantee anything regarding people). Where did my shyness come from? My dad was a real Casanova-Romeo when he was young. Oh ya, the shyness isn't a permanent part of the relationship. It's only there until I get comfortable. Then I become my normal outgoing self with my gal. However, it could take weeks or months to get fully comfortable. I think one reason some women actually prefer shy men (aside from our inherant loyalty) is that it gives those women satisfaction to bring him out of his shell a layer at a time. For her it's a big accomplishment to get him comfortable. Imagine her satisfaction when he (eventually) grabs her and gives her a passionate kiss and hug. I won't go into any details of sex, except to say that a shy guy has to be the ultimate sexual conquest for a woman and among the ultimate intimate accomplishments. After all, he wouldn't do that with another woman no matter how hot she was because you're the only one he's comfortable with. Only you. Isn't that the ultimate intimacy? Knowing that you're lover would rather be with you than any other woman in the world because you're the only one he's comfortable with? Each time I've had a serious girlfriend (I confess I've only had 3), I eventually get comfortable enough to hug and kiss her without asking permission and without hesitation. I love to cuddle. In fact, I'm extra passionate once I finally get that far in the relationship. However, that can take months of spending time together before I'm ready. Initially it's a struggle just to get me to hold hands with you. I suspect I'm fairly typical of shy guys, but that's only a guess. =================================================== Disclaimers Ladies, it's very difficult to tell the difference between a shy guy who's attracted to you vs. a guy who's just not interested. My best thought on this is that a shy guy who's interested will likely give you mixed signals. Much like a shy cat who wants to be petted, but is a bit to bashful and then backs away. Apparent interest, but then backs away. Apparent interest, but then backs off. At some point, you might have to gently take control. Try asking him to lunch, or something like that AFTER you've already spent time with him on a few occasions. At some point AFTER that, you might just have to ask him questions (do you like me? are you attracted to me? etc) to find out. But don't start out with questions. I send mixed signals a lot and I know it drives women crazy (sorry). They've complained about it to other women who they didn't realize where my friends. Then I hear about it. It drives me crazy too. The lady's patience, kindness, and persistance over comes this, if she sticks with it. You won't be able to tame him in one day either. It will take time. If you don't have the patience for it, then don't even start the process. Spending time together is the best cure for shyness. Going for walks and talks in park is one of my favorites. The first time without touching. Next time (hopefully next day) holding hands. The speed at which you can increase the emotional and physical intimacy varies (I think) depending on just how shy the guy is. Also, the better looking you are, the more shy he'll be. Don't try to dress to sexy. It only makes things more difficult. Don't push him, but encourage him. Instead of grabbing his hand, sweetly ask him if you can hold it. Do this while walking because the distraction makes it easier for both of you. Another favorite of mine is a porch swing for two. That's romantic and the swinging is a bit of a distraction from being nervous. I once had a woman jump on me (literally) on a third date and want to get down to screwing right then. Way to soon! She scared the !@#$%^* out of me and the date was OVER. Her feelings were hurt. I was freaked out. We hugged and made up a week later. She'd worked me up to passionate hugs and I was loving that. Also nice backrubs (clothes on) and I loved that. We had not kissed yet. How did she think I was ready to screw? She knew I was shy. I guess she lost patience. That incident set us back, but we carried on and things worked out very well. Unfortunately, I later had to move far out of the area. I have very fond memories of her. On the other hand, the guy who seems consistently not interested probably is not interested. One last caviat, there is one kind of guy who is a real bastard, IMO. He is one who is not actually shy, but does a good imitation. This is a guy who is keeping you around as a backup in case the woman who is his first choice doesn't work out for him. This guy is a jerk masquerading as a nice, shy guy. How can you tell the difference between this guy and a real nice, shy guy? I'm not sure. Sorry, but that's my honest answer. My best advice is time will tell and what's the worst that could happen? You maybe waste a little time. If you know someone who knows the guy, you might ask them about him. Spend some time with him and over time, you'll probably figure out if he's really shy, or just has you on standby as a backup chick.

Where are you going to find that? It's not a question of whether you are attractive looking or have attractive personality. You're attractive to someone. The trick is to find them. What type of person is likely to be attracted to you and where can you likely find them without to much competiton? In this case, where can a smart woman find guys likely to appreciate that? Vice-versa, where can a smart man likely find a women likely to appreciate that? A bar? Of course not. Well not usually. I did once find a smart babe at a bar, but that was a one time fluke. Technically, she found me, but that was still a fluke. Bars are not likely places to meet nice or smart people. Some exceptions occur. College campus? Many intelligent people are there and many do find their mates there. However, it's very tough because there's so much competiton and it's a meat market. Not the best place for smart men or women, IME. An absolute disaster for a shy person, IME. The beach or the gym? Great places to look for hot babes, but not smart ones. Yes, some smart, hot babes are there, but how to figure out which are smart? Besides, with all the T&A showing, I can't think straight and I'm going to be to nervous and to shy to talk to them to find out what's in their head. Also, women at beach in their bikinis are likely to be defensive. I think the beach is a great place for me to look the ladies over (discreetly) and practice saying "Hi" to learn to be less shy. But try to ask them out? No way. I'm shy around fully dressed hot women. Bikinis make me more shy. The women are often already defensive at beach because of typical male behavior (not mine). I can't tell which babes are smart. Yes, I do specifically want a smart woman. So forget the beach. Good for an eyeful, but no good for getting a smart mate. Library? Bingo! It's been classic knowledge for over 150 years that one of the best places to meet a nice girl or guy is the public library (not school library). My grandma told me that 20 years ago. It also happens to be the best place to meet a smart gal, which is another reason I love the library. Yes, the Internet makes the library nearly obsolete for knowledge, but not for meeting the opposite sex. In effect, if you were fishing, you'd go to the water. If you were hunting deer you'd go to the woods (at least in my area). For surfing you'd go to the ocean. If you want to meet smart people then go where they are most likely to be found and the competition is not to fierce. I've met some really smart, nice women at the library and some were very hot too. Best of all, these women like intellectual guys like me and either didn't care that I was shy, or they liked it. For a smart gal, you need a smart guy. Go find him at the public library. He might already there looking for you. Of course some people are there for serious research and shouldn't be bothered. However, when I'm doing serious research I always want to be bothered by a compatible lady. i.e. - bother me anytime. That said, if you're a hot, smart woman, be prepared for a shy response from him. I don't know why, but shyness is common among smart men. We are not intimidated by smart women. We are often intimidated by hot women. We're attracted to hot women as much as the next guy, but they freak us out and make us nervous and shy. I myself am a good looking guy, at least that's what women tell me. Yet good looking women scare me and make me shy. I can get over that, if they're patient, kind, and persistent. It might actually help the smart, hot gals to not dress or look to sexy or you'll scare the shy guys off. I know women who either like smart guys, or shy guys, or a combination of the two. Heck I've dated some of them. These gals are experts at knowing to look just sexy enough to add to his interest without looking so good that she scares him off. I said "add" to his interest because for this type of guy looks add to his interest, but don't create it. His main interest is your personality and intelligence. Looks are just icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Ideally, try dressing for church while stilling trying to be attractive for men. That's the look these women use and very successfully. Sometimes no makeup is best for initial contact. i.e. - as odd as it sounds, you don't want to look to good. Also, smart ladies, realize that a shy man is much like a shy cat. Subtle friendliness, kindness, patience, and persistance and you'll tame him just like a shy cat. You'll get him purring. Then he'll likely love you forever and treat you like gold. Cooincidentally, family legend is that my grandma was a very smart bombshell with a Baywatch figure and my grandpa was smart, shy guy. She got him in this way. She was actually smarter than him, but he was brainy too. Both school teachers. For those smart ladies who aren't so good looking, good news! That might actually be in your favor since you won't scare him as bad or make him as shy. His first concern is probably your personality, then your brains, then looks come third. This is one case where a less good looking woman might actually have an advantage. ====================================================== Disclaimer: I base the above on my experiences and those I've known. There are no guarantees things will go like this for you. There are exceptions to everything. The most important skill in dating or anything else is persistance. If you have the courage to try and keep trying regardless of rejections or failures, you will eventually succeed. That was told to be by one of my college roomates years ago. The guy was a real babe-hound. Although I didn't approve of his exploitative use of women for his gratification, I did observe that he was correct about perseverance in keeping on trying being most important factor to success. Don't give up!

To RedQueen: You don't need to answer this if you don't want to, but I'll ask. What is your age? What age men are you referring to not liking smart women? Age makes a difference because younger men are usually more into womens' looks and not brains. By younger I mean under 25 and to some extent under 30. Some young men are highly intelligent and socially developed at earlier ages (below 25), but most don't seem to grow a brain until they're somewhere between 25 and 35. This is especially true about EQ (emotional intelligence). I think a guy over 25, and especially over 30 is more likely to care less about looks and will either have developed an appreciation for brains in a woman, or at least not have an avertion. I'm 38, but I look 30 (according to women I know). I seem to do best with women who are 24 to 32. When I say best, I mean that's the age group that is most often attracted to me. I like them too. I really dig the smart ones especially. Now if I think how I used to be when I was in my early twenties, I don't think brains in a women mattered to me back then. In my early twenties my small head did all my thinking. My point is that men change and mature with age and are more likely to appreciate brains in a women as the man himself matures. Yes, older men do like hot young women, but I think it's the smart, hot young women they most often like. I couldn't tolerate a ditzy woman no matter her age or looks. In my early 20s, I wouldn't have cared about her brain, if her T&A was good. I've changed. I was always intelligent, but I wasn't emotionally mature until around age 30. ========================================================== Does the above make sense? ========================================================== Disclaimer: The above is based on my personal experiences and opinons. You're experiences may differ. I don't claim to know it all. I only claim to know myself and some of those around me. Also, there are exceptions to everything: some young guys are great, some middle age men are jerks. However, overall, I think you'll find that men get kinder and more emotionally improved with age.

I think smart is sexy in a woman. Especially if combined with good looks, but also regardless of looks. I'm smart myself so this adds to compatibility. Right now I know a very good looking woman who's not very bright, but she is nice and likes me, or a least likes to flirt with me. I'm physically attracted to her, but repelled by her stupidity. I drove her home from work once, and I've had long conversations with her. She's no rocket scientist. I can only tolerate about 30 minutes of continuous contact with her before I get a headache or fall asleep. She's built like a baywatch babe, but after 30 minutes of listening to her, I can't stand her. If this same woman were smart and interesting, I'd be sold. Personally, I need a certain level of physical attractiveness in a woman, but also really like that combined with brains. I have to say that if you show me a hot librarian, school teacher, or professional woman, I'm wanting her more because she's smart and sexy. Cooincidentally, these smart women are often the ones I attract, but then I'm intelligent and intellectual myself. The 3 qualities I look for in a woman in order of importance: kindness, intelligence, and looks. Looks is dead last on my list. I'm not a normal guy, but that's good. Who'd want to be a normal guy? Shouldn't we strive to be better? And yes, I do know a lot of guys who prefer dumb women, but that's because they're dumb or average intelligence men. Are you looking for a man like that? If not, then who cares what they think? Why not try a smarter guy? =================================================== There are times when my intelligence repells women. Other times it attracts them. Much of that has to do with their smarts, but also how I present myself. i.e. - if you lord your intelligence over others it makes them feel either bad, insecure, or bored. I try to never "lord" over anyone. i.e. - don't show off. For example, some of the ladies at work are very smart, most average, some aren't to bright. However, I adapt myself to each of them and talk about things they are interested in. I try to never outsmart them, unless they're brainy and enjoy competition, in which case, let the games begin. I could tell you my I.Q. or what percentile I was in academically to impress you, but I won't. Why? Because that is exactly the sort of inappropriate behavior that some smart people use to make themselves feel good. This alienates other people. When I was in high school, I was jumped a year ahead for my age. My dad told me to never tell anyone my I.Q. or test scores because this is socially poor etiquette, bragging, and will alienate people. This was true in high school and it's still true as an adult. Sometimes I intentionally act ditzy at work around the ladies just because it makes them laugh. It entertains them, but also makes them comfortable with me and vice-versa. Do I feel like I've sold out? No. I'm a computer network administrator and a programmer. I even started my own software company and later sold it. They know I'm smart and I know it. I don't have to prove anything. My humble, self depricating humor endears me to them. I don't talk about algebra, business law, accounting, programming, networks or things they don't understand or care about because that would bore and alienate them, except for the few smart gals who are interested. I'm also a history buff, but I don't talk history with someone, unless they are interested in history. Intelligence IQ is nice, but EQ (emotional quotient) is nicer. i.e. - try to deal with each person on their level and you'll have scads of friends, which I do. No girlfriend at this time, but lots of friends. As far as love and marriage go, I think a smart person is best with another smart person, or at least someone near their level. However, there are no rules for love. My sister is smarter than her husband. They both know it. However, she makes it a point to never humiliate him in public or talk over his head in public. She might do it in private, but not intentionally. I think she was attracted to him partly because he's a tough guy and very protective of her. Also they both like each other's looks, which helps. ================================================== Both intelligent men and women can have a tough time finding a partner because there's not that many highly intelligent people around. We're a minority. I'd prefer my woman to be as smart or smarter than me, but I don't require it. Just anywhere near my level is good enough. As explained above, some of the problems intelligent people have getting a mate are our own faults. Some are not. =================================================== Disclaimer: The above is based on my personal experiences and opinons. You're experiences may differ. I don't claim to know it all. I only claim to know myself and some of those around me. Also, there are always exceptions to any generality.

If she fits it into a conversation where you did NOT ask her out, then pretend you didn't hear her. Wrap up conversation and leave as soon as convenient. Still be friendly when you see her in future, but no more flirting or asking out. No more long conversations. If you did ask her out and she tells you about b-friend or married, then say, "Sorry. I didn't know". Then act casual. Still be friendly when you see her in future, but no more flirting or asking out. No more long conversations. If you want to be cool, then say, "He's a lucky man." That's a classic oldy dating to the 1940s or before. Then be cool and unruffled. It's no big deal. It's not a rejection of you, so don't take it that way. No reason for you to feel bad or embarrassed. Though I admit I feel embarrassed too when this happens. It happens. Part of life. Normally I'd say look for a ring, but when they wear a million? How about resorting to the favorite olde that our grandfathers used successfully? It's so old it's new again. It goes like this... You: Are you married? Her: No. You: Do you have a boyfriend? Her: Yes. You: He's a lucky man. Alternative Outcome You: Are you married? Her: No. You: Do you have a boyfriend? Her: No. You: You do now! That worked dandy in the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s and should work dandy now. My grandpa met my grandma that way. It's so old that it'd be new to young ladies today. I don't think modern ladies have heard it. Have you gals heard it before?

In my case, heck ya it's an excellent idea. I'm a 38 year old computer network administrator, but I only look about 28 to 33. We've got a smorgasboard of beautiful women at work and only a few guys. The women range from 18 to 65. I leave the ones from 18 to 22 alone, even if they are interested in me. To young and I don't feel right about it. 23 I'd go out with, if she asked me, but I'm not going to pursue. 24 to 35 is fair game and I'm interested in some of them and some of them interested in me. Despite the target rich environment, I do very little dating because I always turn shy around women that I'm attracted to. My boss is really cool. I asked her about dating women from work and she said that 80% of married couples these days meet at work. She also pointed out that my work schedule is busy and most of my coworkers are women, but my social life is not very busy. thereforeeee, she said to be discreet and kind, but go for it. I'm lucky to have her for a boss. Most people aren't that lucky, but don't let that stop you. Jeeze you're an employee not a slave. Can you get a job elsewhere if necessary? Yes. Would they fire you? I doubt it. Mutual dating is not sexual harassment. Asking her out is not harassment either as long as you stop asking if she says no. That's the key right there. If she says to leave her alone, then do it. I studied this in business law while working on my business degree. Don't be afraid to try. My sister was a young college English teacher who married one of her students. He is a few years older than her. The college has a policy against teachers dating students, but it's only enforced if a gilted party complains. The college never even found out my sister dated and married him. If they had, who cares? She now has a better paying job elsewhere anyway. Unless they have a strict policy about it (like military) and the authority to put you in prison for it (like military) then be discreet and go for it. Seriously, would you give up the possible love of your life for your employer? My boss is cool, but even if she wasn't I wouldn't let that stop me. Just ask yourself these questions: 1) Can I get a job elsewhere if necessary? 2) How likely are they to fire me if they find out? 3) Do they even have a written policy on it? I'm a shy guy with women I'm attracted to, but even I'd go for it. "Faint heart never won fair lady" has been known for about 500 years now. It's classic and true. The modern equivalent is "no balls no glory". ============================================ Cripes I just read the rest of your original post. I now see you're 16 and work at a theme park. It's such a shame that kids would even worry about this. Don't worry about it fella. You'll have more and better jobs in the future. You'll only have now for this girl. Absolutely go for it, but be cool if she turns you down. I don't think they'd fire a 16 year old for trying or succeeding. That'd be wrong. But if the worst thing happened was you got fired, then go get another job. I see this as potential big reward for you vs. potential tiny penalty. Go for it. ============================================ As for whether she's interested in you? I have no idea. I'll leave that to others to council you on. I'm not the brightest guy in that area. However, I can tell you this, of all my memories of women in my life, my biggest regrets are the ones that I wanted, but never tried to get because of shyness or whatever reason. Not trying is far worse than failing. I've forgotten the women who turned me down. I will always remember with regret the ones I never asked.

Wait until after exams. Then ask again. Next time don't say "Just as friends". Just ask her out without specifying "as friends". Try holding her hand or something. Just do something to see how she reacts. Next time ask her out on a date. Use the word "date". If she balks, then just ask her straight out how she feels about you. Then you'll know if she's shy or just not interested. Shy people can be tamed with kindness and patience (much like a scared cat). Not interested people are a hopeless case. Not interested and keeping you around just in case is cruel, IMO. I don't think you should give up yet. However, life is short. If you're going to be turned down then stop dragging it out. Make a move (after exams). Find out. You'll either succeed or have to move on. Moving on isn't so bad because there's millions of other women in the world. Either way you need closure. All guys have had this same experience. I've actually found it a relief to be turned down once and for all so I could move on. Rejection is not the thing to fear most. Not knowing or not trying is the worst thing. So go for it and find out. Don't make getting her your goal. Making finding out where you stand your goal. She either likes you or she doesn't. You just need to find out once and for all. If she says any more of that "we'll see" stuff after exams, that means "No, not ever." i.e. - we'll see or maybe means maybe the first time. The second time it means "No way, not ever". If she isn't your girlfriend within 2 weeks of exams being over, then forget you ever met her and move on. P.S. - that Friscodj guy is wise (based on what I read). Listen to him too.

Look for a wedding ring when you talk to them. You will be talking to them since you're going to start saying "Hi". Right? If they have one, then you don't need to ask if they're single. If they do NOT have one, then you should ask, but don't ask right away. Save that question for a few minutes into the conversation or for the next conversation. However, I think you should work on making friends first. Friends are more important than boyfriends. As for additional advice for the other questions you asked: I don't know. I not an expert. I told you all I know. I don't know the answers to your other questions because I'm shy myself. I think at some point after you've talked small talk for at least 5 minutes, you need to just ask the questions on your mind. There are others with more experience who might better answer those questions.

I'd also suggest you go to each local church once. Then pick the friendliest and join it. That's a safe way to make a bunch of new friends and meet elibable men to. I wouldn't normally say that, but you said you have no friends. I'm shy myself with women in regard to dating, but I have friends and do OK that way. I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, but I think a local church would be an excellent way to gain friends and people who care about you and would be a support group. That's more important than meeting a man. I think you should concentrate on making friends and gaining a support group first. Worry about romance after that. Church is a good and fast way to accomplish all these things, possibly including the romance too. My shy cousins are all more shy than me. All of them had no problems meeting their spouses in church. So this does work. It's clear to me that there are people online who care about you. I see that in reading other posts. However, you need good people in your community who care about you. Church is the fastest, safest, and easiest way to find that. While in church, remember to say "Hi" to people, except here it's everyone, just the attractive ones.

Each time you see someone you're attracted to, walk up and say "Hi". Do this wherever you are (assuming it's a safe environment). For example, do this in grocery store, at work, in church, at school, on a safe city street. For example: Do NOT do this at night on the street because that might not be safe. Saying "Hi" works to reduce your shyness with practice. Some of the men you meet will be friendly and may even have a conversation with you. Some may even be attracted to you. Others will be rude or indifferent. Who cares? In these cases, just walk away without saying anything. Don't ever apologize for saying "Hi". This technique does work for reducing shyness and for meeting people whom you're attracted to. It's all about practice. You'll have to force yourself at first, but it gets easier. Eventually (maybe after a month or two) it gets easy and you'll no longer be shy to start a conversation with an attractive person (attractive to you). The next step is having a conversation. Ask the questions you need to know, but perhaps not in the first conversation. Save those questions for perhaps the second conversation. Are you single? Etc. The next step is asking someone out. I'm still struggling with that myself, but each step can be learned with practice and gets easier with practice. You just need the courage to practice one step at a time. Hang in there. I think face to face meeting people would be much safer for you than online. The online thing scares me much more than face to face. P.S. - as a general rule men are much kinder, gentler, and more considerate with age. I suggest you practice the "Hi" method on men who are from 25 to 31. Those men are close enough to your age, yet they will usually be more outgoing and much kinder to you than younger guys. Also, if you're wondering, yes most of them will be attracted to a 21 young woman. Perhaps extra attracted. So you'd have that in your favor too. Younger guys (under 25) are often mean, immature, and inconsiderate. So I think a bit older guy would be nicer to you and better for you.

I'm no expert, but I'll give my opinion as a shy person. Actually I'm only shy with regard to dating. I'm outgoing otherwise. If she likes you and she's outgoing, then it probably doesn't matter whether you ask her out or tell her you like her. Either would probably work. That based on my bumbling experiences as a shy guy with outgoing women. An outgoing women can adjust to just about anything if she already likes you. At least that's my best guess based on my prior experiences. If she's shy and you tell her you've got a thing for her, you'll freak her out so bad she won't be able to talk to you. Trust me because I'm shy and women have freaked me out that way before by telling me that sort of thing. If she's shy and you just casually make an appointment to meet with her for some low key daytime activity like lunch, coffee, or icecream, then she'll probably be OK and not freak out. If she likes you, then you're in and you've skillfullly gotten around her shyness. The advice others gave on casually asking her to meet you at _____ day time activity is the same as what I'm saying here. If she doesn't like you then you can't win no matter what you do. So thereforeeee there's no point in worrying about this possiblity since it's beyond your control. i.e. - don't give it a thought. I covered all the possibilities. I think. I'm no expert on dating, but I do understand shy people pretty well since I'm one. I also understand outgoing women pretty well since those are who I normally date and hang out with. Good luck.