charley

I find your post really interesting because I remember having the same experience. Noticing younger women sometimes liking me and at first I was wondering if I was mistaken. Then realizing some of them really did like me. Then wondering if that was acceptable for me to return it. Then I did what I typically do when in doubt. I asked each of my friends of various ages their opinion about it. I have more women friends than men, but men also. My friends range in age from 17 to 80 with most being from 21 to 40. Guess what. The guys of all ages said go "get 'em". I was skeptical. I asked my gal friends. Guess what. My younger lady friends said things like age doesn't matter. It only matters how you feel about each other and how you get along, etc. The middle age gals said "go get 'em" exactly like the guys had told me. The gals in their 50s to 80 said exactly the same thing the younger gals had said. Also, I thought back to being 23 and having a 36 year old girlfriend who was awesome. She was really good to me and for me. She made a lasting positive impression on my life that is still with me. So after thinking about all of the above, I was then good with the idea of it. However, the next step was harder. Actually asking a gal out. That's not easy since I was very shy. When I was younger, they asked me out (occasionally), but at my current age, I've got to do the asking now. I've gradually reduced my shyness by practice over 5 months and I am now ready. I would advise you to find out how old they are. Asking their age is not very smooth and may be rude. Instead, ask them where they went to school. Then, "Oh ya, when did you graduate?" or something equivalent. That way you can verify they are not to young. For example, I know a gal who looks 16, but is 26. I know another who looks 19, but is 26. I know another who looks 25, but is 17. Some investigative questions are necessary to avoid potential embarrassment or worse. In closing, I'd like to add that life experience does matter and as one poster said, there are some things that are only learned over time with experience. So what's the problem with that? Nothing, IMO. I think this difference in experience and perspective makes it more exciting and interesting for both people.

Hi. I'm not qualified to give you any dating advice, especially not related to high school dating since I never dated in high school. However, I do know one thing. You are not obligated in any way to have sex with a guy whether in a relationship or not.

I couldn't possibly address which area, if either, you might have an aptitude for. I suggest you go see a college guidance councelor for that. As for which you might enjoy, I don't know that either. Here's what I do know, or think I know. A geologist will spend time out in the field and probably needs to be in decent physical condition. An accountant is an office worker and a desk jockey (like me today). However, our on staff accountant spends every day at her desk all day long, except lunch breaks and occasional other short social breaks. Does that sound like an appealing life style to you? Not to me. Luckily, my job (programming, support, creating legal documents, real estate documents, creating-editing-managing websites, and some sales and pr work too, and yes some accounting as well because I sometimes write programs for that and must understand accounting and get far into it) gets me away from my desk about 1/3 of the time, which is a nice relief. I personally wouldn't want a job that was always a desk job. On the other hand, I have many old injuries that would make a job in the field difficult or impossible for me if I was always out and about. I have it good. 2/3 physically restful desk job and 1/3 field work going out and fixing computers and such. I personally am not capable of spending all my time in the field and I don't want to spend it all at a desk. I like the mixture of the two. Of the two jobs you mentioned, geologist sounds more exciting to me, but also more physically demanding. I do like accounting in small doses, but I don't want most of my life spent at a desk. I don't know if any of the above helps you, or not. Go see a college guidance councelor. See if you can spend one day with an accountant and another with a geologist. That's called job shadowing. One day with an accountant and I'll think you'll go crazy climbing the walls with boredom. No offense intended to any accountants. Both careers pay well, at least in my area. One of the wealthiest men I know is a geologist who now owns his own geology company. I don't think money enters into this choice since both pay well.

I didn't socially get started until age 23. Then, (at 25) due to severe injuries laying me up for many years, I socially skipped from 25 to 32 and then again from 34 to 36 and missed all the years in between socially. Mostly, I didn't miss them businesswise, but socially, I did. I had friends the entire time who came to see me and I made new friends of nurses and CNAs (many are still my lady friends), but I didn't go out socially during those times. I'm kind of like Rip Van Winkle. thereforeeee, I think my social age is somewhere between 28 and 32, IMO. I have friends of all ages, but it's the ones from 28 to 32 that I go out with socially to clubs, etc. Well usually, but sometimes I do go out with friends my own age, but they seem old to me and I seem young to them. I think that social age like anything comes from experience, not actual age. Also, I look about 27 to 31, which socially makes me feel and seem younger. However, my business age is 38+. My experience dealing with hardships and persevering is far beyond my 38 years. There is overlapp between the various types of life experience, which helps me compensate. I'm a unique mix of life inexperience and experience, of insecurity and confidence. For me, it's all about context since I'm experienced in some areas and not much in others. Life is interesting. I'm enjoying confidence in areas where I'm experienced and secure. I'm learning to enjoy exploring the areas where I'm relatively inexperienced. I think learning to enjoy exploration is a big step toward improvement.

My shyness as an adult has been only with women who I was attracted to and face to face with in person. No one else. Since my shyness has been limited to that, I have had no problems making friends as an adult. However, thinking back, my shyness used to be with everyone up until about age 23. Then I had my first GF at age 23. She was outgoing, worldly, life experienced, much older than me, and she helped me a lot. Actually, I'd say my change started right there with her. Then at age 24 I became a commercial real estate agent (offices, large apt complexes, etc), which later lead to becoming a programmer of commercial real estate software. My time and education as a commercial real estate agent included formal education about dealing with people in business and sales techniques, which I think of as persuasion techniques, but also hard facts such as mathematical analysis and research. i.e. - use the facts to persuade someone. It can't all be based on fluff and charm. You're argument has to have real substance behind it (combined with some charm). Then on the job practice and business and sales experience eliminated my shyness with everyone, except women I was attracted to. I'm still shy with women if I'm attracted to them, but I have recently reduced it to a manageable level so I can function and ask a woman out.

Have you ever considered having a beer or other drink under those circumstances? If you're not accustomed to beer, I suggest Coors Light as being very mild tasting. It would help you greatly to relax and not panic. The music even doesn't sound as loud. That's how I started going to clubs with friends. I don't need it anymore. The last time I went to a club (last Friday night) I drank nothing but water and hot apple cider. My friend got to drink for a change, which was nice for her. I was the driver. Anyhow, consider having a beer. If your not a drinker, then one will be a lot for you and will easily relax you. I try to limit myself to one because I have a low tolerance for alcohol and two makes me stupid. One is good though.

Do you remember the 1970s? I was in grade school then, but I clearly remember the battle of the sexes as the ERA and women's rights movements were really worked up into full man hating mode those days and it even extended to and affected little boys (me). And yes, they did have some legitimate reasons to be p'd off, but not with little boys. Yet even as an 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 year old boy I was many times called a "male chauvanist pig" or sometimes just "pig" for short for trying to be polite and hold a door or some other manners thing my grandma had taught me. I learned that manners were something I should do only for elderly women. I'm only just now relearning to use manners for younger women. As an 8 and 9 year old, I had to learn to cook at home for myself and my dad because my mom, like other housewives of the time, was on strike (literally). I think that was a national housewife strike thing. It's hard to remember exactly since I was 8 and 9 at the time. My dad was hopeless as a cook. So my grandmas taught me to cook. Grandmas never went on strike. This national battle of the sexes stuff went on from when I was 8 to 12, which was basically the last half of the 1970s. It affected many or most households and society in general, even kids. Women eventually got their rights by the end of the 70s. During the 80s and 90s women calmed down so much towards men that I think ladies today are very reasonable and nice. I have observed some of the things the post above complains of, but I'm not complaining. I'm very easy to please and I'm easy going about this stuff since it's SO MUCH BETTER than it used to be. Women today of all ages are so much nicer, mellower, and easier going than I remember in the past. The gals from 20 to early 30s seem especially reasonable and fair minded. Actually, I don't think guys today have much to complain about at all compared to the past. Women today (on average) seem more reasonable and easier to get along with than ever before in my life. They even want to pay for half of many things now and/or take turns paying, holding doors, etc. Since they pay half (in many cases) they don't have as extravagant tastes as they used to. While I haven't dated in a while, I do have several platonic women friends who I go out with every week. So I see how reasonable and fair women are now. If equality isn't perfect these days, it's better than ever before and I think improving all the time, especially with the younger generations who seem to have the equality thing nearly perfected and without the animosity of the past generations. So what do guys today have to complain about? Very little compared to the past. I personally have no complaints today. I have many complaints about the past, but it's over and best to let it go. Women today are awesome. Any guy who survived the 70s battle of the sexes should know that women today are wonderful. Not perfect maybe, but wonderful in most cases. They seem nearly perfect to me, but I have the perspective of the past, which helps me appreciate the present.

Twice in my life I've heard this same thing. Both times young ladies I knew told me that they were originally interested in possibly dating me, but I did nothing beyond being friendly and acting as a friend. They said that if a guy doesn't ask them out within one week of meeting her, or within 3 times of talking to her, she moves him to the friend category. I don't know if this applies to other women or not. But for those two gals, that's how they saw things.

I haven't dated for a long time, but when I last did... I had one gal friend who turned into my favorite GF ever. However, in hindsight, it is very unusual for a friend to later turn into a GF, in my limited experience. Of all the women I've ever asked out, about half were my friends first. The other half not. The friends all turned me down. My track record for successfully asking out friends is zero successes ever. On the other hand, of the gals I asked out who were not my friends first, about half of them accepted and went out with me. So it seems to me that odds are much better if you don't get friended first. On the other hand, if I think of the gals who asked me out. Hey, it's happened. Most were not my friends first. Here gain, being friends first is not usually helpful. However, there is one exception. My favorite GF ever was my best friend and she asked me out. So it can happen. I'm talking ancient history here since I haven't dated recently. But the experience and lessons still count. If I want a gal romantically, I don't want to get friended first because I think it greatly reduces my chances of ever getting a date. However, I have had several dates and a short term GF who later turned into friends. So apparently getting friended is my specialty. I don't think that being friends first is a good strategy for dating, unless you just want to be friends and only friends. Once friended, you'll likely stay friended forever. However, if a good, close friend does turn into a GF, it can be wonderful, as it was for me. So in the end, who knows what's best? If you really want to ask out your lady friend, I'd suggest just doing exactly with her what my best friend did with me years ago when she asked me out. She said, "I'm attracted to you. I'd like to date you. Do you have those feelings for me? Could you have those feelings for me?" I told her the truth, which was that I was not sure and needed to think. She told me to think about it overnight, or longer if necessary. I dreamed of her all that night and the next day I knew I wanted her that way. I think I already knew I wanted her, but I needed a day and a night to digest the fact that she felt that way about me. The next day I told her I did want to date her. This worked because she didn't tell me to much information. She only told me what I needed to know and nothing more. i.e. - she didn't freak me out. Then she patiently gave me time to think and adjust. She was prepared to just remain friends if I wanted to. She was 36 and I was 23. I think her emotional maturity and patience is a big part of why it worked. Are you prepared to tell your friend only what little she needs to know and nothing more so you don't pressure her or freak her out? Are you prepared to wait a day or two or three while she thinks? Are you prepared to gracefully accept it if she wants to remain just friends? If so, then use the example of how my friend asked me out and try it. If the Greek system ladies aren't working for you, try some ladies who are not part of that system. If necessary, go looking off campus for a woman. Then that Greek baloney won't matter. FYI - you'd think that college girls would be emotionally mature since they are supposedly smart. However, I've found working women to be more mature and stable, even if they are the same age as college gals. Why? Maybe because college is a meat market and the gals there have so many guys to choose from and you have so much competition at college. Working gals don't have as many guys to choose from. That's why I'd usually prefer a working gal (with or without a degree) over a college student gal. Think about it. That's one reason I love my job besides the actual work. 90% of the employees and half the management are women from 18 to 60. Not many guys here and no other GQ guys besides me. The odds are good and the goods are good. If you're looking for a gal at a college or university, you've got a lot of stiff competition everywhere she looks. Can you find another place to find a GF? Someplace with less competition and better odds?

OK. I don't care at all about race. However I do find it very much a turn on when a women has olive, light brown, or medium brown skin with brown or black hair. Dark eyes are also appreciated. That said, I'm a light person of 7/8 Scandinavian decent. My hair is dark strawberry blonde to auburn brown depending on lighting. My eyebrows and rather hairy arms are golden strawberry blonde that actually glows gold in the light. thereforeeee, the women I'm attracted to are often not of my race. However, many women of Southern European background are dark enough to get me going. I don't care about race at all. I just know what looks good to me and that's not pale natural blondes. i.e. - not anyone who looks like me or my sister or cousins. I've seen to much light skin and blonde hair in my life and not enough darker women. i.e. - opposites attract for me. Well not extreme opposites necesarily, but I do need a substantial difference. A woman's coloring is a prime factor in how physically attracted I am to her. I don't want her to light. This is not a conscious choice, it's what turns me on. Most often women of Southern European, Hispanic, and Asian backgrounds look best to me. Sometimes lighter African American women look really good to me (Halley Berry for example). I'm not attracted to white girls, unless they are suntanned. i.e. - I'm not attracted to "white" girls. However, the only literally white girls in the USA live in the North. I think every woman in California and South of the Mason-Dixon line has enough of a tan to look good to me. So I guess I really like every kind of woman except Northern white women (who are pale). I hope I haven't offended anyone. There's my honest answer and why.

I don't know whether to tell you you should or shouldn't. I can only say that I once read somewhere that 80% of couples meet at work these days. I don't remember where I read that. I don't know how accurate it is. However, where better than to meet someone and get to know them BEFORE dating them? I understand all the reasons not to date at work. If it doesn't work out, you still have to see them everyday, and so on. Your employer might not like it. Etc. All potentially valid warnings. However, you are an employee, not a slave. I personally don't see how an employer has the right to stop you. Just my opinion. Also, where else can you get to know someone that well before dating them? School or church are the only other places I can think of. Years ago, I tried all 3. Of the 3, work had the least problems when it didn't work out and has the best track record. It might work out great. How will you feel if you never try and you are thinking of this guy for the next 20 years? I know myself that I have a lot of platonic women friends and some of them have been my friends for 5 to 13 years. I met most of them at work and the rest are nurses and CNAs who took care of me when I was seriously injured in the past. None of my former female school friends lasted very long. School friendships with women were all short term and ended about as soon as the class ended and they didn't need to study with me anymore. The worst psycho girl I ever knew I met in church. So of the 3 places where you can theoretically get to know someone well before dating, work has the best track record for me (tried it a couple times in the past). Not that it hasn't had it's occasional problems. My longterm guy friends have come from all 3 places and elsewhere. I think everything has risks and you have to compare them. Dating someone from work, school, or church all 3 have risks because you'll be around them longterm, even if it doesn't work out. Church is the worst of the 3, especially since church women are the worst gossips ever and the preachers are often butting into relationships. School is the most temperary place. Work seems a great place to meet people to me and the best of the 3. A guy you know from work is probably safer on the date than a near stranger you met elsewhere. Compare the risks. I think the guy you know best is safer than the guy you don't know well. You probably know this guy well by now. If not, then wait until you do before chancing it. Does your employer even have a policy about it? Maybe they don't care. Even if they do, would they ever know? How would they know? My sister used to teach college English at age 25 and 26. Her husband was one of her first students and he is 3 years older than her. I think the school's only policy was that they were supposed to wait until he was no longer in her class and wouldn't be in another of her classes. She has a higher paying job now, but she could go back and teach at that same school again and they know where she met her husband and they don't care. Perhaps you should figure out if this guy is also into you too and how much. If so, I wouldn't let any employer policy stop you, but that's my view. In any case, in a worst case scenario, there are other bookstores to work at. There's been several people where I work who've dated each other, but at work they acted like just friends and no one ever knows until one day they get spotted necking on the sidewalk a block from work. Our employer couldn't care less as long as they aren't on duty. I don't know about your employer, but why should they care if you act professional at work when on duty (act like normal coworkers) and do your jobs? If you are professional at work and act like just regular coworkers, then who would know and who would care anyway?

Thanks. I'm going to print out the post that started this thread and keep it handy.

OK. Well, good luck. If you do start feeling nervous, I suggest you keep Blender's advice as a backup plan to fall back on. For example if the loud club scene makes you nervous, you could just make getting used to that be your goal for the night. Or maybe have getting used to the club scene be your plan A and if you get comfortable then switch to plan B, which would be looking for a lady. Whatever works for you is good with us. We just want to help you figure out some plans to prevent anxiety. Good luck.

Your post was excellent blender. It sounds like exactly what I've been doing for the last 5 months. As a person learns more about people and gains social experience they naturally become more confident. This constitutes both a gain in knowledge, confidence, and experience (i.e. - practice makes perfect). I initially just went for the student knowledge approach you describe. Later I started practicing while still learning. I think you are right on.

Hey relax, or try to. I think you are trying to do to much all in one night. I have my former shyness problem under control, if not entirely beaten. However, it took me 5 months of baby steps to get here. You're trying to do all that in one night. I don't don't think that is possible or realistic and deep down you know that and that's why you are gettting scared hours in advance. Here's what I'd suggest. First of all, you need to break this into small steps over time (i.e. - make it a process directed by a plan). Never mind getting a girls number tonight. That's to much for you. You first need to learn to be relaxed just being in social public situations with your friends. After you get used to that, you can think about girls later. One step at at time. A person can't eat a whole burger in one gulp, but if taken one small bite at a time, it's easy. Likewise you can't jump up a whole flight of stairs all at once, but you can easily walk up one step at a time. If you reduce tonight's goal to just going out and being with friends and trying to relax, you have an easier, attainable goal that won't scare you as much. If you forget about girls tonight, then your stress will be greatly reduced. You can get a girls number at some future time after you've learned to relax in public with your friends, and then learned to relax around a lady. One step at a time. I've been taking things one small step at a time. It took me 5 months, but I'm there now and I feel socially comfortable and not shy anymore. You can't do that all in one night, but over time I know you can.

No I haven't. No I wouldn't.

It'd be nice if your friends liked him, but it's not necessary that they like him. It's only necessary that you like him. Hey, he might not like your friends either. You can do things with him separately from your friends. There's no requirement that you all hang out together. Besides, wouldn't hanging out as a group be more likely to turn this guy into a friend than a BF? Isn't being alone (just two of you) more romantic and intimate? Personally, I try to keep my friends compartmentalized from each other, from my family, and if I was dating anyone, I'd try to keep that compartmentalized at least for a while. Why? Because I'm more interested in how I get along with each of these people than in how they get along with each other. I don't want possible problems spilling from one person to another. I'll give you an example. I get along fine with my dad, mom, or sister by themselves. However, once my sister or mom get together with anyone else, I'm immediately odd man out. I for sure don't want any GF meeting my mom or sister to soon. My mom would start picking me apart telling me why I'm not good enough for the GF. My sister would start picking the GF apart telling me why she's not good enough for me. My dad would be fine and he's the only family member I'd want meeting a new GF. I know my family and I know their group dynamics and I work around them by keeping a new GF far away as long as possible. With friends who don't already know each other, and/or including a BF or GF in the mix, the group dynamics are totally unpredictable. For example, I have a lady friend who is married. So she should have no interest in me romantically, and she has none that I know of. Yet she always automatically dislikes and starts running down any woman I show any interest in romantically. So if I was dating anyone, I'd keep my GF away from this lady friend. Yet my friend is still a good friend. I just don't want her around a GF. For another example, 13 years ago I had a first date with a girl who like to play board games. That works better with more people. So I arranged to have a couple friends play with us. She and my best guy friend ended up falling for each other that night. They dated beyond my back for a couple days. Then they told me. That really sucked. So I learned that I don't need to have a GF around my friends or family, or at least not certain friends and not certain family members. They might not like each other, or worse, they might just be crazy for each other and I get dumped. I'd suggest doing things with your BF separately from your friends (and maybe family too) until both you and this guy figure out how much you like each other and have an established relationship that can withstand meeting your friends and/or family. Then, if some friends and/or family members don't like the guy, or he doesn't like them, then so what? They don't have to hang out together. However, I do think it's best to keep them apart until you are comfortable and established in your relationship. P.S. - It sounds to me like you and your BF guy are more mature than your friends. thereforeeee, as time passes, you'll likely find this guy more and more to your liking. Also, as time passes, either your friends will eventually mature, or you'll get sick of them if they don't. This mature BF guy sounds like he's got longterm potential.

What about love? If you love this guy, then does this sex stuff really matter that much anyway? There are some couples who are together for a long time without having sex at all, or very little, and they love each other. I know my sister and her husband dated for a year before getting engaged and then they were engaged a year before marriage. I'm sure my sister was virgin before meeting him and I think she probably was a virgin until marriage. So they loved each other for a good year and a half or more with no sex. I also read a very touching thread at E from a gal who clearly loves her guy and vice versa and they haven't ever had sex. I don't think sex is or should be the most important thing in a relationship. Compared to some other couples, once a week is a lot. So I guess everything is relative.

OK. Fair enough. As I said, that was something a friend of mine who teaches biology told me. So feel free to take issue with what he told me and I repeated. I'm not a biologist. I don't know.

Actually, Scout, I don't think we are in disagreement. I don't think anything I said conflicts with anything you said. It's possible that we may both be correct. Personally, I'm enjoying being somewhat less interested than I was in my 20s. I'm looking forward to the day when I'm no longer interested at all. I think it will be liberating. Unfortuneatly, that is probably a couple decades or more into the future. It seems a rather attractive idea not to have to worry about any of this stuff anymore. Imagine how much simpler and less frustrating life would be. Nagging and pleading won't help, but seducing him might work, if well done. Years ago when I was 23, my 36 year old GF bought a stack of girly magazines and wanted me to look through them while she gave me BJs. That ought to get just about any guy going. I mean we're talking about the stimulation of seeing many nude women plus having a real nude woman right there touching. Actually, I'd have to say my former GF was a genius at that sort of thing. She was capitalizing on a psychology principle called the Coolidge effect. That is that two available women will double a man's sex drive. Three available women will triple it. Four available women will quadruple it, and so on. Seriously. That is a fact and is documented in psychology books. My former GF was a nurse. So she was familiar with many psych and physiology things. Look it up in a psych book. Anyhow, my former GF was a nymphomanic, or seemed so to me. She was also educated and quite a seduction genius. The original thread starter might want to take some seduction inspiration from this paragraph. I'll bet you'd get an extra day per week out of him, at least. Perhaps the addition of some other exciting things he's not used to getting would also catch and increase his interest. Be creative.

Not to be to insensitive, but the role reversal of who's horniest is poetic justice. Women then get a taste of the sexual frustrations that men in their teens and 20s have endured. There are some solutions, I've heard. (Hey I'm one of those premature bald guys, so it's not like I'd know from personal experience) Viagra and related drugs. Testosterone shots. Or you can get yourself a younger boyfriend in his early 20s, which is what some 30 something women do. If you go this route, you may as well go for the gusto and stick to a guy under 25 because it's all down hill for guys after 25. When I was 23, I had a 36 year old GF whom I fondly remember. Or I suppose you do have another option, which probably every guy in his teens and 20s must use for a supplement or substitution for sex. Self pleasuring. Ok, I admit I do have experience with this one, but so does every other guy. I don't want to be cruel, but what you are experiencing is how life is for guys in our teens and twenties when we can never get as much as we'd like, if any at all. It pretty much sucks doesn't it?

What is his hair color? Is he turing grey at all? Greying hair in a man indicates low testosterone levels. Low testosterone is what triggers a man's hair to turn grey. By contrast, the baldness gene is triggered by high testosterone levels. So baldness or partial baldness indicates higher than average testosterone levels. Theoretically, the younger a man is when he starts losing his hair, the higher his testosterone and the more studly he would be. Male sex drive rather closely parallels testorone levels. At least this is what a biology professor friend of mine was telling me. I don't know if this has any bearing on your situation or not, but perhaps it does. I'd expect a somewhat lower sex drive in a middle age guy anyway, but there is a lot of variation among individuals. The hair issue is a visual clue.

I'm no expert, but this is my thought. I think it has to do with hormones, sex drive, and age and is all normal. I've heard many times that men's sexual peak is teens and early twenties and then gradual decline from 25 on. For women peak is late 20s, 30s, and possibly early 40s. So in effect, wouldn't it be normal that just as you are hitting your peak and your sex drive is increasing, guys near you age are tapering off and becoming gradually less interested and less capable? I've heard and read that. I've also had women friends in their 30s complain of this very issue. One lady friend in particular comes to mind. She is in her mid thirties and has been married to the same guy since she was 17. She says that when they were younger he wanted to do it every day, but she didn't want to more than once or twice a week. Now that she's in her mid 30s and he's in his early 40s, their roles and situations are reversed. Now she wants to do it all the time and he seldom wants to. She is frustrated. She said she now has to work at getting him in the mood (i.e. - seducing him). That is something she never had to do when they were younger. However, isn't all this rather normal considering your relative ages?

I experienced this exact same situation about 13 years ago. Calm down and just avoid any further meetings or confrontations with your friend or the girl. Just avoid them for at least 2 weeks to a month. Don't talk about them to any 3rd parties anymore. Then, after all your emotions have calmed down, stop and think about what's important. Your friend is important, or will be after you calm down. After 2 weeks to a month have passed, then talk with him. Hopefully you can patch things up with him later. You'll want to later. If you do patch things up later, avoid doing anything with them as a couple because that would be really uncomfortable and painful. Only do things with him when she's not around. In my case, I'm still friends with the guy, but the girl hates both me and him. It would have been better if we all 3 ended up amiably, but given a choice between still being friends with him vs her, I'd choose him anyday and he feels the same about me. Girls are here today, friends are here to stay. Knowing her better, as I now do, I'm fortunate I never got mixed up with her. He's fortunate to have gotten away from her. She was just a headache and the real loser was a 3rd guy who got her preggers and was stuck with her later on. Lucky for me and my friend that neither of us is stuck with her. To top it all off, she went from good looking to immensely fat. I can honestly say that both me and my friend are loads better looking than her now. Ha ha. Also, keep in mind, you never had a chance with this girl (most likely). However, she does apparently fancy him. That isn't his fault. It's just how it is. Don't flush a good friendship over a girl. She's not worth it. After all, you referred to her as "a girl". You didn't refer to her as "a friend". So she was nothing beyond a fantasy to you. She's easily replacable. That said, I never again introduced my friend to any woman I was interested in again. Lesson learned. I'm a reasonably good looking guy now, and was even more so back then, but he was a very good looking guy. If I was stupid enough to introduce him to a girl I wanted, well that was my bad. I'd suggest keeping your better looking friends away from any girls you want until after you've either tried with her and got her secured, or you've tried with her and given up. If she's still a work in progress, then keep your good looking friends away from her. I should add that my friend and I have been closer friends ever since we made up.

Wow. That was a great post Sheyda. I sympathize with you and wish you all the best success in the future. You are already succeeding in many areas where other couples fail. With regard to emotions, loyalty, and love, I think your relationship is superior. Those things are more important than sex, but eventually you'll have sex too. Then you'll have it all. I think your relationship will also prove to be superior in its longevity. Anyone who would tell you that your relationship is not real because you aren't having sex is a shallow person. There are many people whose only claim to being a couple is sex because that's all they share. They lack other elements of a healthy relationship and thereforeeee apparently feel insecure and have the need to discount a non-sexual relationship. =============== I think your wonderful relationship is partly sexual, even though you haven't yet fully consumated the act. After all, you both have the feelings and desire, and you've done many sexual things together, but just not that one thing. As for most guys not being willing to wait more than 3 months for sex, I certainly believe that is common, but it's not universal. I do think that most women have no recognition or special appreciation for a guy who'd wait. In fact, they'd likely not respect or appreciate him. You would, but you are a unique and special person. Personally, I'd have hopes after 3 or 4 months, but no requirements. I'd be willing to wait until marriage, or longer if the lady needed me to wait longer due to special circumstances. So I suppose that makes me an oddball. However, I know several other guys who'd be the same way. I can think of several male friends and relatives who I'm sure would be patient with a woman. So those guys do exist, but are rare. Your relationship is much stronger and more loving and real than the average couple's relationship.