ignite

One final thing because I think it's time that I stopped posting - you've all given me excellent insight, probably not helpful to keep going over the various scenarios and you've given alot of your time to this, which I do appreciate. But I have one more and then I'll shut up... I've been thinking about Friday itself whether I essentially instigated the break up, unintentionally. This is because she actually had no intention to even talk about us and just wanted to hang out and see "how things go because things could be different in-person." We did hang out, talked about other stuff other than "us" for quite some time as we had some food, coffee. At various points, I asked what do you want to do, do you want to call it a day? She didn't resist my physical advances (didn't kiss) but each time she said I don’t know. When it came to say goodbye and I asked her what do you want to do...she finally said I don’t think it’s right to continue, I’m sorry. Tell me if I’m overthinking here but perhaps I still had a chance here and blew it by pressuring her. But then I suppose if she really wanted things to work she would have still given me a chance even at the end. Plus at the start of the meeting when we met, I brought all this up and she re-iterated where she stood and then again few hours later when we were walking around and chatting and asked her if she wanted to still meet the next day. I think it was a losing battle regardless. How long was this going to go on for? I couldn't be in limbo for too much longer which is why I kept asking for clarity of where we stood. I think that's fair. Was she testing me in a way to find out how patient I could be and carry on hanging out like this and perhaps hoping that we could re-connect that way. But with her still being cold, disconnected and distant and saying this wasn't fair on me, it pushed me away and would have made it impossible to reconnect any way.

@yogacat thanks for the comments. Just wondering, how would bring up that dealbreaker, would you simply ask them directly, have you been with prostitutes in the past? Of course you would have no way of knowing for sure I guess if they had? I think a bit of both but in my case, most likely personal beliefs that I've held for years with my Christian faith as well as the traditional upbringing that I've had. Alongside that the strong belief that fornication is a sin and waiting for marriage was the right thing to do. This right here is EXACTLY what I was trying to do in that period after she told me about the herpes. In those few weeks, I was trying to look past it and focus on everything that I liked about her. So over time from getting to know her more and more, the love I have for her will truly overcome everything else. I'll admit as the other posters have pointed out, I did struggle and that's because of my traditional, deep rooted ideas about how women should be pure and innocent etc. especially if they are and act a certain way, e.g. being very feminine as one example. I understand that this is wrong and it is about who they are now in the present moment and what they are working towards rather than who they were in the past. As Christians who preach forgiveness and the fact that God has forgiven peoples' pasts and made them into transformed people in the present, this should have been the lens I saw every woman I dated - through God's lens but my own hang ups and judgements prevented that. At least I have made progress and matured in this area over the years. There was a time in my 20s when I would be uncomfortable if a woman was simply not a virgin and that would be a dealbreaker. Reminds me of the story that @Batya33 mentioned earlier in the thread about her friend when she found out her friend had sex with a mutual friend they knew. That's why with this girl I knew she had a significant past and I told myself I was going to be fine with it and I was..right up until the STD of course. Next time I will be ready at least if I meet another girl who is in a similar situation.

Sorry @Morello, forgot to get back to you on this and thanks for your comment. Yes I think the above a fair assumption, there was a sense I really didn't want this to fail simply because 1. it started off so promisingly, 2. there was enough about her that I did like so didn't want to discard that and 3. yes there's always that fear of having to start over but more to the point as you get older you realise how difficult it is to meet someone you find attractive and have a connection with, so when you do encounter it, you want to do your best to hold onto that. I suppose that's what I was doing even though deep down there wasn't a total peace about it because of the herpes. I think when she backed away though and disconnected that made me fully realise that I needed to put this issue aside and see for what it is - a minor skin condition which I am not likely to get anyway (with the right precautions). Anyway there's been some good advice and words on here and I appreciate that. I am finding this very difficult because of the circumstances but end of the day I have to forgive myself and just be at peace at least with the fact that I tried to make things work even in the last two weeks but she had shut down and checked out emotionally and wasn't willing to go back to how things were. Really hard to take because I really thought this could go somewhere.

When I saw her on the Friday two weeks ago, we did discuss things in detail, I re-iterated my stance and how I felt about her and said I wanted to make things work and she was still unsure of course because emotionally she still doubted the acceptance of the herpes for example. But when we went back to her place, it was nice although she still said she feels the same, she didn't pull away when I wanted to kiss and just hug her. That weekend she seemed to pull towards me again, she started sending more texts, we had a nice call on the Sunday and I felt that perhaps we could be back on track. So the reason I bring this up is I felt that this Friday gone, if we had just hung out in the same way we did two weeks ago, perhaps she would have been more at ease by spending time with me IN-PERSON and then that might have helped her reconnect potentially? But then this Friday gone, there's no way I could not approach the subject since she was being distant and cold with me when we met. After we had the coffee, then we did hang out and walked around the city, got some food, chatted about normal stuff like things used to be for several hours. All the while she was the same and reminded me where she stood and how she feels when I asked a couple of times. There were a couple of moments where I hugged her and touched her arm and she didn't pull away but I obviously didn't want to keep pushing it. As you can see this is really affecting me and I'm going through all the different scenarios about "if I had done this then..." Plus now she's come up with this other stuff about we're not really that similar and we see serving at church differently etc. So she will use that to fall back on (asides from the herpes) as well if I even hinted at reconnecting.

Thanks @SophiaG I appreciate the thoughtful and encouraging response. Interestingly, if someone said they had depression or were on anti-depressants, I would have no issue with that, if anything I would be even more attracted to them in a strange way, because I have dealt with depression and anxiety myself so I would be very sympathetic and understanding. I think with the herpes, I obviously let the stigma just get to me and spiralled a little before calming down but it was always an issue at the back of my head. But after fully realising this is nothing more than a benign skin condition, I told myself I don't want this issue to be in the way, so I will push forwards because I want to get to know this girl better and fall in love with her. I'm not denying it didn't deeply bother me. It did for sure, at first. Two days before she disconnected and checked out, she did say to me, when talking to her friend, how I mean what I say and that made her feel safe and secure. Few days before that she was dreaming about me in her dreams. Everything from my point of view was great as far as I could see it, that's why it was such a shock when she backed away in the way she did. Not blaming her for it but you can understand why and how I am reacting as I am now. It's so surreal. You're right and she said it throughout Friday that I didn't do anything wrong, and nothing bad has happened here so that's perhaps why she was slightly hesitant as well to call it a day when I saw her. And didn't want to continue as it wasn't fair on me as she knows how I feel.

When she did reveal in-person when we were spending a nice day together and then we started talking about our pasts. And crucially, she also built up to it and I could sense anxiety and tension within her as she was about to say what it was. In my mind I was like, I’ll accept whatever it was as I did really like her. When she mentioned it was herpes, obviously I was taken back but was gentle and tried to be understanding. She said it’s fine if that changes things, she’ll understand and also whether I now see her differently… And guess what happened, those two things did happen in the next coming days. Almost like a self fulfilling prophecy as I guess those two things did happen - I did see her differently and things did change. And yes like I admitted earlier, my image of her as this super feminine, traditional woman was kind of shattered. In 2-3 weeks after she told me I think she may have expected me to actually express my feelings about it or provide some kind of “update” on my “progress.” Because I didn’t, she took that to mean I wasn’t happy and was struggling with the whole issue. And eventually she went a step further I guess, and thought I may never get over it and so shut down her feelings and checked out. I just wish she had raised her concerns before she did this, not when it was basically too late.

Thank you I do appreciate your thoughts again on this. Ok yes, I do admit that the herpes revelation did change how I saw her, definitely. The fact that she was so feminine and had all those traditional attributes which I am looking for, made it more difficult for me to accept that she could have an STD. The two aspects simply did not marry up in my view. I realised though even in that week and the following week, that this was the wrong way to look at it but I admit I still felt that way, that I saw her differently all due to the STD. And it pains me to say that because I didn't want it to be true. I hate myself for even thinking that now but it's due to the hang-ups I have. I remember your post to me back then you did say "I truly hope you've been able to sort at least some of that out" that referring to these views and that's exactly what I was trying to do being truly honest. I know how it seems, like you said how can I go from having these views and then suddenly claiming to want to commit to her and be with her? Well because as I've said many times now, she had so many qualities and aspects that I'm looking for in a woman and I did genuinely want to date her and over time the herpes will not be an issue at all because how I feel about her. I can see how my efforts in the last two weeks may have come across as disingenuous but she herself had expressed that she didn't feel accepted and that I had distanced myself and wasn't happy with her and in this relationship. So the obvious action would be the show that that is not the case and so I did what I could to show her my true intentions...because I did want to make things work and genuinely obviously didn't want this relationship to end. That much is obvious to me as you can see, otherwise I wouldn't have spent the last few weeks writing on this form to start with! Early perceptions can be difficult to change, yes, but I just couldn't throw the towel in as soon as she told me about the herpes because I knew that it was a very emotional reaction. So I had to let things settle, process things and go from there.

No, correct, I was indeed thinking about myself when I wanted to know more. I wanted to know the impact it could have on me and how likely it might be that I could get it and so on and some of that involved knowing whether she had outbreaks etc. I don't think they're unreasonable questions to pose and thoughts to have. But yes in retrospect, I could have been calmer and not stress over it like I did as shown in my original thread. But ultimately, like I've said many times I couldn't help it and I'm trying my best not to kick myself now, now that it's too late. I suppose I can console myself knowing that after she backed away, I tried my best to assure her that her herpes was not an issue and I wanted to commit to her and showed her that in the past two weeks.

Thank you. I think yes the catalyst was the herpes and that triggered the other things she brought up later. However even during that period where I was processing the herpes, I was still in touch with her, I didn't do a runner and in the one time I saw her in person before I went overseas and before this all went south, we spent a nice weekend together and I expressed physically how I valued her (kissing, hugging etc). But I did bring it up and asked a few more questions about it. I simply wanted to know more about it and her experience. I don't want beat myself up over this and think if only I had done xyz because she knows how I felt towards her these last two weeks. But no matter what I did or said, she wasn't shifting.

And another reason... This is the first time since like perhaps 2009 that I've been with a girl who has shown me this level of affection and attention. That's like 15 years! I know it was genuine and real from her and maybe I took it for granted slightly thinking this could be it, this is going to last and she'll be here because of how strongly she felt. Even then we're only talking 2 months of her being like this before she switched and those feelings were no more. Such a short period of time overall but like I said in my world, this is so rare for me to even date someone this long. I'm fearing this might take a long time for me to recover.

I agree, I didn't provide that extra reassurance and affection that I should have in that period. I didn't go really distant or ignore her or anything like that but like you said perhaps she felt that rejection because she sensed something had changed. I feel though it wasn't just this issue. She had mentioned at the same time she wasn't sure about our spiritual compatibility and had doubts around how things would be long term regarding church activity. But I do wonder... Did this other stuff only come up because of the herpes revelation? This was the catalyst and from there she started thinking about all the other issues. Guess will never know. Say the herpes didn't even affect me or say she didn't disclose it at all, then these other unrelated doubts and issues could well have come up too at some point but I suspect it would have been dealt in a different context and in a different lens compared to how it was here. It may still not have been right herpes or not. Anyway, I am really struggling here. Last night when I left her I was fine, got home, fine. But I haven't slept at all. The pain I feel right now is gut wrenching. I didn't think it would be this bad. Every time I close my eyes, I see her, hear here and wish it could have been different. She would have dreams about me, that's how strongly she felt towards me. So to come from that to switching off her feelings almost overnight is a really painful experience.

I couldn't help how I reacted at the time, and yes perhaps in retrospect I did come across shocked and judgy which made her feel uneasy from that point on. But I simply wanted time to process it which she acknowledged as well. I do admit though when I went away, I did feel different during that time. But the possibility of her potentially ending things then made me realise I did infact want this because of who she was as a person, the fact that we get on well, there was a strong connection and we shared similar beliefs and values. That effectively created such a strong urge for me to show her that I do value her and want to be with her. So all the good intentions I had in the last few weeks were genuine, whether it was more texting or sending her chocolates. I did want make things work but I understand to her that may seem disingenuous. I just wanted to take time to think it through (the herpes) and the impact it would have. I believe that's a sensible thing to do because we are thinking about marriage when dating. I didn't run away or freak out for those weeks. I prayed and processed it in the way I knew best.

So an update on that original situation with this girl I was dating.... Since that last post I made on here, things went from bad to worse. I was on an overseas trip last month and everything was fine until the last few days when I started to notice her being very cold and distant with her texts. She said she felt disconnected for many reasons. Ever since she told me about her herpes, she has been looking for signs of acceptance from me and she feels that there was a shift in communication from my end. I wasn't as complimentary and affectionate etc. over text and we didn't call each as often. I admit this is all true, there was a shift on my part because I guess I was still trying to process her having herpes and the long term impact that it could have. I was going through a wave of emotions myself trying to deal with it. She felt something had changed for me and I had taken a step back. She did mention she had serious doubts about our spiritual compatibility too and the fact that we could be different in these areas. We met and talked it through and the thought of losing her shook me up again and I realise I didn't want to lose her. From that moment I wanted to make this work. After that I didn't see her for two weeks but in that time she continued to be distant and cold with me consistently, despite the fact that I made a huge effort to show her that I do want to commit to her and make things work and what I think of her. I sent her chocolates, made an effort to call her, checked in with her, told her how I felt, not every day but enough to make her aware that I was serious about her. But i just wasn't getting anything back from her and her compliments towards me which were daily before, were now non existent. Her texts which were affectionate and long were now cold and short. I sensed the end was coming but in my mind if I saw her in person things could be different. So I held onto some hope. Not to be. I travelled to see her today for the first time in two weeks and we ended it today. Basically, she's saying she hasn't changed her position, she's still feeling disconnected despite trying to get back to where we were, she just can't. We barely talked about the herpes because I think she perhaps realised I was over it but instead brought up the compatibility issues, how we aren't similar on certain things etc kind of vague. Now annoyingly she said she didn't plan to have this conversation but just hang out and see how things go today which seems contradictory, because in person things might be different! But then I couldn't pretend that nothing was wrong because clearly that's not the case as she was being so cold and distant the moment we met. At one point I just asked her straight out do you want to continue, just be honest and say if you don't want this. She said she wasn't sure and that we can put a pause on things. Basically it seems she just isn't sure. However we then went for a walk, had a pizza before I got my train home later in the evening. Those few hours we just chatted and caught up and it was nice I thought. I should have just left but I thought if I hang out with her a bit longer then maybe she can reconnect even in that short time. When it was time to say goodbye, I asked her again, what do you want to do... She said I don't think it's right to continue and that she's sorry. And that was it. We hugged, said goodbye and went our separate ways. So it's definitely the end. I won't be texting her or contacting her again, perhaps a Christmas message later in the year. I'm feeling OK for now. It will probably affect me in the coming days I think but the fact that she was so distant in the past two weeks will make it easier in a way. And in a way it turned me off as well. She had checked out and despite trying to feel reconnected, she could not. I know and she said herself I did nothing wrong the entire time we were together. And maybe that's why she was conflicted and unsure herself about ending it. I do think these compatibility issues are valid, sure but I do genuinely think once someone really likes you then surely they will do whatever they can to make things work and try to look past them. It's not as if I said I'm not going to church anymore or I don't rant too read my bible etc. The differences she brought up were important to her though, so what can I do. I believe I did everything I could from treating her as well as I could to deciding to commit to her after that period and showing her my intentions and being patient as I could. But it wasn't enough and ultimately her reactions, the physical distance between us, the advice she was perhaps receiving from friends or whoever were all out of my control. My confidence is shatteted now because once again, a dating experience that started so promisingly, someone who I thought was into me, suddenly changed her feelings and not feel the same despite me doing nothing wrong and that hurts. Yet again I have failed to attain a serious, long term relationship, let alone come close to getting married. It's difficult enough to meet someone who I deeply connect with, find attractive. I have waited years for this. I was extremely down about not meeting someone before her, and then I met her and for a brief moment, there was hope and I dared to finally believe that this could actually work. But it's ended like every other promising situation and now I'm back to where I was. And now I'm going to think with the next girl, I am going to be quite insecure because I fear the same outcome after a promising start. I wish I could just give up sometimes. Sorry this is so long and appreciate if you've made it this far.

My lodger has lived with me for almost two years now and one of the rules I had for my apartment is no shoes when inside. He definitely complied for some time early on but as time went by I think he has not been bothered to take them off at the door and then enter the flat. Last week I noticed when he came in he had them on again and before then, I was away. I have a feeling he's been doing this every day for a long time. So this is disrespectful now. I think when someone gets comfortable living somewhere even if that place doesn't belong to them, they start taking things for granted. Do you insist on guests and people who live with you removing their footwear whilst inside?

Hey Shysoul I sent you a PM.